[Macros]

Why do I insist on reading the comments section on stuff like that.

Le Sigh

[Gorefest]

Alternative Goose, on 20 June 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

"This is America".

Trumpism is a logical end stage in an ever progressing march to elevate celebrity culture and celebrate idiocy. We reap what we sow. You would think that increased access to information would improve knowledge and cultural/social development. But in actual fact for large swathes of humanity it has led to increased tribalism and stupidity. We have lost the centre and are spiraling to the extremes, with no filters in place to stop or brains from leaking bullshit into public channels. We have the ability to freely consume the thoughts and works of the greatest minds in human history; instead, we watch cat videos. And where local communities are disappearing, we create artificial niche groups online, packaging our thoughts into generalising one-liners and 'profound observations' copy'pasted from messageboards without context. Welcome to humanity in the twentyfirst century.

[worry]

A lot of that is true, and I hate to be that guy (or do I???), but I have to disagree once again on the subject of "extremes"...which implies (at least) two extremes. Where is the other extreme? Where is the left extreme? Our furthest left politician on a national stage is Bernie Sanders, who has his blind spots but is eminently reasonable in an FDR kind of way and should -- by any rational measure -- be where the 'center' is.

And I also want to point out that cat videos are a net good.

[Gorefest]

I meant extremes as in lack of moderation. So not so much a political left vs right polarisation, but a wash-out of the gray scale in all sorts of topics and a constant drive to turn every complex item or phenomenon into a ‘simple’ black-and-white picture to make the subject matter easier to digest for the uninterested or the short attention span public. That facilitates generalisation and discrimination. Sprinkle that with a dosis of misjudged ‘everyone’s opinion is valid and equally important’ (square off a scientist with twenty years of work in the chosen subject field against Bernice who reads tea leaves and talks with hamsters) and we are all happily marching towards blissful ignorance. So it is no surprise that we end up with a society where there is a larger public outcry when McDonalds runs out of Szechuan sauce than when 2300 Mexican kids are forcefully separated from their parents.

[HoosierDaddy]

Sometimes I feel terribly cynical... and then I come here and read. I've got nothing on most of you all. I must have gone to Oz in an Indiana tornado.

[Nicodimas]

Well lets talk about illegal immigration in a more serious tone.

Illegal Immigration is Wrong. Simply and without a doubt ...Wrong.

We have been sold on it as a “thing” that has to occur.

Ok. Let’s do some critical thinking. Should the border be open? Yes. Can it realistically with the inflows that occur with the sheer amount of people. Ok, probably not. We could create more open borders though? Why don’t we do this? Cause DC and established interest profit. DC can use it as a wedge political and business get a underclass of workers. I hear this all the time, they are just trying to make there lives better. Totally. Get. That. However, they are sold on this idea and come here illegally and taken advantage of...There’s money in this people. Serious money. The information exists its out there and the information is getting to the big names now. You have to have figured this out as adults that the illegal immigration creates a underclass of people who are being taken advantage of...There’s more insidious stuff occurring too as minor children are exploited by the cartels as drug mules sex slavery, abductions, and the generalized smuggling of low cost migrant workers. There’s tons of articles about this deep underbelly and you can read all about it if you deem its a good use of your time. These workers aren’t taken care of they are exploited and sold on a lie. That’s wrong. Integration could be a vastly superior process if we found by state how many people could be absorbed into the states. This could be helped by allowing corporate entities who pay for non-farm Visas and bring over their tech employees on the cheap < I have stated this for ages—corporations that gain talent should foot the immigration costs>. Sadly, this should have been implemented decades ago, but aren’t cause it comes down to the cheap underclass and exploitation of these potential Americans. Thought process: Why do we hear about the fact that illegal immigrant who worked at which factory for fifteen years ..never got their citizenship, its due to the said corporation got a lower cost work which falls outside labor laws...?

https://www.counterp...rive-migration/

Immigration, reform must occur. All this politicking they have been doing is the same stuff they always have...avoiding the problem on purpose and both parties are totally complicit as it benefits them. Supporting current illegal immigration is really wrong as it supports exploitation essentially. DC has been running this same scheme and we all know it. DC both parties are too blame..its been this way cause that’s what the money in charge wants.

<the obvious solution if caught illegally crossing, send them back to their country and give them clear instructions. This gets tougher with the cartels due to imminent death that can befall. I would legally take as many people as possible in a co-ordinated, responsible manner that the system can allow>

A little article on this whole Nazi non-sense. Get your stuff together guys...shits been like this for ages and nothings been done.
https://www.counterp...nazi-denialist/

However the problem is

A-US Foreign Policy that benefits the Elite
B- Modern Immigration law creates a cheap migrant workforce

Sidebar: The 25 billion a wall would be much better spent on a five year immigration plan that would bring 100k-200k into the country as and be legalized. There is no perfect plan, but that’s better than some useless wall..which divides us

This post has been edited by Nicodimas: 22 June 2018 - 02:46 AM

[Malankazooie]

Do you guys think the wife of the president of the United States (aka FLOTUS) should be above trolling the media and american public by wearing a jacket with (in big letters) - "I really don't care, do U?" - whilst traveling to Texas to visit one of the sites where children are being held that have been taken away from their parents?

To further expand on the above. The first lady then (at one of the holding facilities) asks how long, on average are children held there. And she then replies - "that's great" - when the answer is 40 to 45 days.

[Cause]

Malankazooie, on 22 June 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

Do you guys think the wife of the president of the United States (aka FLOTUS) should be above trolling the media and american public by wearing a jacket with (in big letters) - "I really don't care, do U?" - whilst traveling to Texas to visit one of the sites where children are being held that have been taken away from their parents?

To further expand on the above. The first lady then (at one of the holding facilities) asks how long, on average are children held there. And she then replies - "that's great" - when the answer is 40 to 45 days.

First I thought it was a stupid mistake because no one would do that on purpose. Then I realised this presidancy is that stupid and has lowered the bar that far. For any other presidency this would be a monumental scandal. It was unbelievable!

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 22 June 2018 - 05:02 PM, said:

Malankazooie, on 22 June 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

Do you guys think the wife of the president of the United States (aka FLOTUS) should be above trolling the media and american public by wearing a jacket with (in big letters) - "I really don't care, do U?" - whilst traveling to Texas to visit one of the sites where children are being held that have been taken away from their parents?

To further expand on the above. The first lady then (at one of the holding facilities) asks how long, on average are children held there. And she then replies - "that's great" - when the answer is 40 to 45 days.

First I thought it was a stupid mistake because no one would do that on purpose. Then I realised this presidancy is that stupid and has lowered the bar that far. For any other presidency this would be a monumental scandal. It was unbelievable!

I think it was deliberate on her part, how could it NOT be? It would be the same as me choosing to go to meeting of people dealing with the grief of lost loved ones, and wearing a t-shirt that says "Stop letting the past define you, move on!" splashed across the front. It's not a mistake. It's not tone deaf stupidity. It's a deliberate, and nasty political statement by the wife of a president.

also deliberate in my view?... was both Stephen Miller AND Kirstjen Neilsen eating out at MEXICAN restaurants over the last week.

These are the tactics of those who basically want to flaunt the fact that they are pulling nasty shit, and largely getting away with it.

[Tiste Simeon]

Well some spokesperson said "stop focussing on the clothes she's wearing that's dumb there's no message!" and later on the moron in chief went on Twitter and said "hah glad you all noticed the message we sent you, fake news media.

In conclusion it was both that it was deliberate and that they are *that* stupid.

[QuickTidal]

Tiste Simeon, on 22 June 2018 - 05:46 PM, said:

Well some spokesperson said "stop focussing on the clothes she's wearing that's dumb there's no message!" and later on the moron in chief went on Twitter and said "hah glad you all noticed the message we sent you, fake news media.

In conclusion it was both that it was deliberate and that they are *that* stupid.

Yeah, that sounds about par for the course for this administration.

[worry]

Dictionary definition economic anxiety.

[QuickTidal]

So, is THIS looking more like a certain historical group yet?

A direct attack on the Constitution the US was founded on...by a sitting president...from his official pulpit.

Also to see this week: SHS illegally used her official Twitter account to attack a private business stemming from a personal reason.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 June 2018 - 04:27 PM

[Cause]

QuickTidal, on 25 June 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

So, is THIS looking more like a certain historical group yet?

A direct attack on the Constitution the US was founded on...by a sitting president...from his official pulpit.

Also to see this week: SHS illegally used her official Twitter account to attack a private business stemming from a personal reason.

I actually woul Never have thought illegal immigrants have many rights. I kind of figured all the protections of the constitution etc would apply only to citizens. This has been my assumption for the way all countries work

[QuickTidal]

Cause, on 25 June 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 June 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

So, is THIS looking more like a certain historical group yet?

A direct attack on the Constitution the US was founded on...by a sitting president...from his official pulpit.

Also to see this week: SHS illegally used her official Twitter account to attack a private business stemming from a personal reason.

I actually woul Never have thought illegal immigrants have many rights. I kind of figured all the protections of the constitution etc would apply only to citizens. This has been my assumption for the way all countries work

No one would ever want to go to those countries then, for travel (business OR leisure). If you have all your human rights stripped at the border, what impetus would you have to go into that country?

EDIT: Zadvydas v. David, 533 US 678 (2001):"the Due Process Clause applies to all persons within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful or unlawful."

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 June 2018 - 05:26 PM

[EmperorMagus]

Cause, on 25 June 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

I actually woul Never have thought illegal immigrants have many rights. I kind of figured all the protections of the constitution etc would apply only to citizens. This has been my assumption for the way all countries work

IANAL, but if you look at the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, it clearly states which rights are specific to citizens (voting, entering and leaving at will) and which rights are for everyone (freedom of conscience and association, right to life, liberty, and security of person).

[worry]

The Constitution applies to everyone under U.S. jurisdiction, and is very specific as to which privileges it reserves only for citizens (such as voting). And as QT points out, "citizen" vs. "illegal immigrant" is a false binary as there's a whole lot of categories and legal pathways in between.

There's debate about this, but I'm also of the opinion that "illegal immigrant" is a generally lay term meant to flatten a host of circumstances and statuses in order to otherize (primarily) Latino people, that has warped the law when it's used, and has done a lot of harm to lay people's already shallow understanding of one of the most complicated legal areas in the country (rivaled by tax law and not much else).

[Aptorian]

QuickTidal, on 25 June 2018 - 05:13 PM, said:

Cause, on 25 June 2018 - 04:49 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 June 2018 - 04:26 PM, said:

So, is THIS looking more like a certain historical group yet?

A direct attack on the Constitution the US was founded on...by a sitting president...from his official pulpit.

Also to see this week: SHS illegally used her official Twitter account to attack a private business stemming from a personal reason.

I actually woul Never have thought illegal immigrants have many rights. I kind of figured all the protections of the constitution etc would apply only to citizens. This has been my assumption for the way all countries work

No one would ever want to go to those countries then, for travel (business OR leisure). If you have all your human rights stripped at the border, what impetus would you have to go into that country?

EDIT: Zadvydas v. David, 533 US 678 (2001):"the Due Process Clause applies to all persons within the United States, including aliens, whether their presence here is lawful or unlawful."

This I believe is Trumps point. If you travelled to another country, you'd be expected to do so in good faith or suffer the consequences. You would either be doing it within a travel agreement like in the EU or you need a visa and what ever permits. You can't just show up on a stranger's door step and ask what's for dinner.

We're living in an era where a lot of the agreements about human rights and immigrant processing will get turned up side down. Things will be ten times worse 10-20-50 years from now.

I don't think Trump is wrong about questioning America's immigration process. He's just too stupid to understand/care about public perception and the amount of diplomacy he is battling. Edit: Or that immigrants are human beings.

This post has been edited by Alternative Goose: 25 June 2018 - 08:25 PM

[worry]

Do you think Trump would be wrong to question a heart surgeon performing a heart transplant on, say, Robert Mueller? Given that he knows nothing about the particulars of heart transplant surgery but has a distinct interest in the procedure being unsuccessful?

[Aptorian]

I have no idea what that analogy means unless you want to expand that discussion to a macro level where we're discussing what kind if patients should receive heart transplants or health care in general.

Trumps perspective makes perfect sense if you look at it from the King Ralph perspective. Trump is a billionaire couch potato. He only understands basic talking points fed to the average low brow voter.

On a macro level foreigners are not to be trusted because they are not Ameeican. Immigrants bad. Immigrants take jobs from Americans. Drug cartels look like immigrants. Mexicans are criminals on NCIS. Immigrants aren't millionaires. Trump once ate a bad burrito. Therefore immigrants are bad. Trump does not care about global diplomacy or centuries of tradition and law making. He cares about instant results. Instant gratification