[Tiste Simeon]

OK I'll admit I might have been a tad unfair on BK and for that I apologise. I was mad about stuff and saw you worry about diplomacy and just vented - after all he clearly has NO diplomacy and that much was obvious before he became president.

But yeah HD is also right. When you throw your lot in with someone like that you have to take some form of ownership for it. It's not like there wasn't plenty of warning.

[worry]

It appears DJT's entire "fire and fury" speech was improvised, and came as a surprise to even his military advisors. The "like the world has never seen before" part was just language stuck in his head from earlier written remarks he gave about the opioid crisis.

[HoosierDaddy]

I'm shocked! Stunned! Overcome with surprise that Donald Trump would say batshit crazy things off the top of his head.

[Malankazooie]

If I had voted for Trump, I would seriously be actively engaged in the mid-term elections to make sure opposition would be taking seats from Repubs who support him in my district and state. And you know damn sure I would be working actively (devoting time and helping where I could) in making sure he is ousted in 2020. It's the least I could do for making such a mistake. Polls show that he has fallen out of favor even with his base (he has horribly low approval rating for a prez who has been in office 6 months). So those who were fooled by the "Build the Wall", "Lock Her Up", "Trump That Bitch" rally cries should be leading these efforts. It's sad because the demographic that voted for Trump are the ones that are going to be most hurt by his policies. That they didn't see that and voted for him anyway because they got caught up in that nonsense was frustrating has hell. I'm sure they are feeling much regret for their vote.

Anyway, we are in the twilight zone space where you can't help but laugh.

[Tsundoku]

 Malankazooie, on 10 August 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

It's sad because the demographic that voted for Trump are the ones that are going to be most hurt by his policies. That they didn't see that and voted for him anyway because they got caught up in that nonsense was frustrating has hell. I'm sure they are feeling much regret for their vote.

I can't help thinking of the phrase "Caveat Emptor".

Then again, that pretty much goes for all elected politicians.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 10 August 2017 - 07:45 AM

[Cause]

My thoughts on NK is that it's a shame on the world. That it was allowed to reach this point baffles me. That we seem unable to do anything about it is a problem. Millions live in abject poverty and suffering there. They are a rogue state that threatens the existence of SK every day and them having nukes is a problem. Even if we nuke NK they would release chemical and biological weapons at Seoul first.

NK is an abject lesson that we never learn. Proscratinatng from difficult political choices today will lead to worse ones tomorrow. Someday we will need to deal with NK I have no idea what form it will be take but it needs doing.

[Tsundoku]

Trouble was, back in the day they had Big Bro China to back their schoolyard shit up instead of smacking them into line. The Big Enablers.

Now the Little Bro has some serious artillery, enough to stick his tongue out at Big Bro and say a lot of things starting with "Nyah nyah ..." and Big Bro doesn't quite know how to handle it, this situation of their making.

Of course NK isn't exactly suicidal, they're just in a far better bargaining position now than they were in 10 years ago. Enough for all the bigger players around them to realise it would be more trouble than it's worth to take them out. Unless and until someone comes up with the perfect pre-emptive surgical strike weapon. Which isn't likely any time soon.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 10 August 2017 - 08:09 AM

[Cause]

As technology improves with time their ability to be the little kid who doesn't need big bro anymore only increases. Better chemical biological and nuclear weapons will entrench their madness forever.

Part if the problem I understand is that China supports NK as they do to prevent a growing American foothold in SK on their doorstep. I feel like some proper negotiations between America and china could make progress if bith didnt also seem to think they were heading to a ww3 showdown some day.

[Aptorian]

Speaking of voting for American Presidents. Something just struck me.

When voting during the election in the US are you only able to vote for the political candidate or can you also choose to just vote for the political party? Like instead of voting Trump, you'd just vote Republican?

In Danish politics, typically you just vote for the party you want to win. If there's a candidate within the party that you favor (typically somebody from your district/region) then you put the X outside that person's name (It's called a personal vote) but the vote still goes to the party.

Danish politics tend to be not quite so Personality driven as American politics I think.

[Cause]

My understanding is that party elections and presidential elections in America are separate and staggered. Seems the wiser choice to me.

My country we only vote for the party and then the party votes for who should be president. Its left us in the predicament of which our president has no support but the voters can't remove him since they never had any say in his elections and the party for various reasons but essentially selfish self interest won't recall him even though they all want him to resign.

[Aptorian]

Each of the Danish parties have a leader. He/she is the equivelant of the foreman of a union or the chairman of a board.

This person is elected by the members of the party but it's not something that is done during the election. Leaders of a party typically sit there for as long as the party has faith in them (or nobody better comes along). New leadership rarely happens with less than a decade in between.

Everybody knows exactly who is in charge before an election. While negotiations between the parties with the majority of the votes can lead to surprise selections of the next Statsminister (Priminister) it's typically always the leader of the two biggest parties Socialdemokraterne (Left) or Venstre (Right) that will run the place after an election.

I can't imagine anyone could vote for a party with out knowing who the leader is.

This post has been edited by Seduce Goose: 10 August 2017 - 10:36 AM

[Vengeance]

 Seduce Goose, on 10 August 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Speaking of voting for American Presidents. Something just struck me.

When voting during the election in the US are you only able to vote for the political candidate or can you also choose to just vote for the political party? Like instead of voting Trump, you'd just vote Republican?

In Danish politics, typically you just vote for the party you want to win. If there's a candidate within the party that you favor (typically somebody from your district/region) then you put the X outside that person's name (It's called a personal vote) but the vote still goes to the party.

Danish politics tend to be not quite so Personality driven as American politics I think.

You can vote for the President separate from different party candidates. There are some places that allow for straight party ticket voting. But honestly those are for stupid people who can't be bothered to do the bare minimum in researching candidates and there stances. Even if I vote for an all Demo canidates I know all of their stances. Even the guys who are running for water reclamation districts.

[Cause]

 Seduce Goose, on 10 August 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Each of the Danish parties have a leader. He/she is the equivelant of the foreman of a union or the chairman of a board.

This person is elected by the members of the party but it's not something that is done during the election. Leaders of a party typically sit there for as long as the party has faith in them (or nobody better comes along). New leadership rarely happens with less than a decade in between.

Everybody knows exactly who is in charge before an election. While negotiations between the parties with the majority of the votes can lead to surprise selections of the next Statsminister (Priminister) it's typically always the leader of the two biggest parties Socialdemokraterne (Left) or Venstre (Right) that will run the place after an election.

I can't imagine anyone could vote for a party with out knowing who the leader is.

Welcome to South africa where half the politicians dont know why we have a constitution or how democracy works. Never mind the voters!

[Cause]

 Seduce Goose, on 10 August 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Each of the Danish parties have a leader. He/she is the equivelant of the foreman of a union or the chairman of a board.

This person is elected by the members of the party but it's not something that is done during the election. Leaders of a party typically sit there for as long as the party has faith in them (or nobody better comes along). New leadership rarely happens with less than a decade in between.

Everybody knows exactly who is in charge before an election. While negotiations between the parties with the majority of the votes can lead to surprise selections of the next Statsminister (Priminister) it's typically always the leader of the two biggest parties Socialdemokraterne (Left) or Venstre (Right) that will run the place after an election.

I can't imagine anyone could vote for a party with out knowing who the leader is.

Welcome to South africa where half the politicians dont know why we have a constitution or how democracy works. Never mind the voters!

[Tapper]

 Lady Bliss, on 09 August 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

I wonder if we can get Russia to deal on dropping sanctions to start pointing their nukes at N. Korea.

One, sanctions are not an American thing only and the US would see its relations with a lot of NATO-members detoriate significantly.

Two, if Russia agrees, it would only for as long as it would take for the sanctions to lift. Then Putin will swing them back whatever they were pointing at, before, and the US will have traded a long-term policy for a short term symbolic gesture and has facilitated a dictator and legitimized a landgrab in the bargain.

Three, pointing more nukes at North Korea doesn't do a thing: there's probably already more than enough warheads pointing at it to destroy the entire peninsula five times over.

[Tapper]

 Tsundoku, on 10 August 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Trouble was, back in the day they had Big Bro China to back their schoolyard shit up instead of smacking them into line. The Big Enablers.

Now the Little Bro has some serious artillery, enough to stick his tongue out at Big Bro and say a lot of things starting with "Nyah nyah ..." and Big Bro doesn't quite know how to handle it, this situation of their making.

Of course NK isn't exactly suicidal, they're just in a far better bargaining position now than they were in 10 years ago. Enough for all the bigger players around them to realise it would be more trouble than it's worth to take them out. Unless and until someone comes up with the perfect pre-emptive surgical strike weapon. Which isn't likely any time soon.

And if you have that perfect surgical strike, you won't blow it on something as meaningless as North Korea, you keep it stored for the big headaches.

It is typically Trump pick a fight with the bad guy who is more or less locked up in his own bunker and whose threat is mostly verbal, while letting real, damaging issues fester, predominantly in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, secondly in Ukraine and Iran (while I disagree with the Republican views on Obama's Iran treaty, at the least it is clear Iran is an American headache, with its involvements in Syria, Yemen and elsewhere).

[Cause]

Iran is a perfect example of procrastination leading to worse problems in the future. If your not going to see something thriugh to the end dont start it.

Also I'm pretty sure nukes are pointed everywhere. You press a button and tell the computer where to go.

[Mentalist]

Russia is NK's only other border in case China tries to blockade them. I'm sure VVH would relish an opportunity to stick it to the world again.

And yeah, I'll echo what others said: the world powers have probably done the math a long time ago, and trying to deal with millions of traumatized North Koreans once they are snapped out and realize just how shit their lives were for more than half a century is too expensive a headache for anyone to take on willingly. So I'm highly sceptical about things getting much better on that front.

[Malankazooie]

 Tsundoku, on 10 August 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

 Malankazooie, on 10 August 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

It's sad because the demographic that voted for Trump are the ones that are going to be most hurt by his policies. That they didn't see that and voted for him anyway because they got caught up in that nonsense was frustrating has hell. I'm sure they are feeling much regret for their vote.

I can't help thinking of the phrase "Caveat Emptor".

Then again, that pretty much goes for all elected politicians.

True. But Trump is the Ford Pinto, exploding gas tank, unsafe at any speed version of "Caveat Emptor".

[Vengeance]

 Malankazooie, on 11 August 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

 Tsundoku, on 10 August 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

 Malankazooie, on 10 August 2017 - 04:47 AM, said:

It's sad because the demographic that voted for Trump are the ones that are going to be most hurt by his policies. That they didn't see that and voted for him anyway because they got caught up in that nonsense was frustrating has hell. I'm sure they are feeling much regret for their vote.

I can't help thinking of the phrase "Caveat Emptor".

Then again, that pretty much goes for all elected politicians.

True. But Trump is the Ford Pinto, exploding gas tank, unsafe at any speed version of "Caveat Emptor".

I drove a ford pinto for a while. I remember pulling the gear shift out of the gear box in the floor, seeing the ground underneath then shoving the shifter back into place at 50 miles per hour. I thought I was going to put it back into reverse and blow the transmission then die. Turns out that was just the first of many times. We couldn't even fix that issue. But I became very adapt at shoving the shifter back into place.