[Nicodimas]

Vengeance, on 14 July 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

The confederate flag represents traitors to America. They were defeated at great cost. But they were traitors to the country that they had originally pledged their allegiance. If America had lost the Revolution war do you think that the english government would have allowed for the star and stripes to be flown anywhere. Hell no. No other government allows for flags of traitors to be flown on federal land or in government buildings. China doesn't allow the Tibetan flag to be flown anywhere in Tibet. They lost the war. China won. The rebals of the confederacy lost. In this country we have a strong personal rights. So people can fly the flag of traitors from their porches and pickup trucks. But any government institution be it state or Federal should be looking at Treason Charges. It is honestly that simple.

I disagree. The flag was flown by rebels. Our country was founded on a rebellion, that is one reason it's allowed to keep flying.

I don't think everyone in the world likes America's flag at the end of the day. If I went over to other countries and started to walk around with U.S. Flag Symbols..people might give me dirty looks and say something, other places it would be worse. However, the reason we can fly these flags is the freedom that our country enjoys. Little detail's start messing with the freedom we enjoy..if anything we need to keep fighting for these freedom's across the board. Freedom is what is important..rule's just clutter and mess it all up. So when the next person asks why in country we have all these benefits to act, say , speak , behave...that was intended.

Quote

And you can rightly argue that the American flag comes down to one thing as well: expansion without remorse.

I love this.

@ Stud. The cultural victories come through slowing down and letting everyone do there thing. Understanding comes after that, someday. We have a long way to go as we are still trying to tell/yell our own belief structure towards each other. OR we might just you know conquer everyone through our very expressed version of freedom.

[Nicodimas]

EmperorMagus, on 16 July 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

Terez, on 15 July 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

Briar King, on 15 July 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

Are you happy Magnus?

I imagine he feels the same way he did when the deal was first tentatively agreed upon. Maybe not, though.

Yep. Nothing will change I think. A direct flight from Tehran to Canada would be nice though.

Nothing will change. I kind of wonder if the grand scheme of things, that this allows the core government to remain in even more power. From my very simple belief structure..I have always believed we were trying to let the younger crowd gain more power, I think we just did the opposite.

Though American meddling has never really helped this part of the world.

Though, if you ever sat back and really looked at how anyone encounters problems on a global scale..holy daunting. We as a species are nuts!

[Vengeance]

Nicodimas, on 16 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Vengeance, on 14 July 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

The confederate flag represents traitors to America. They were defeated at great cost. But they were traitors to the country that they had originally pledged their allegiance. If America had lost the Revolution war do you think that the english government would have allowed for the star and stripes to be flown anywhere. Hell no. No other government allows for flags of traitors to be flown on federal land or in government buildings. China doesn't allow the Tibetan flag to be flown anywhere in Tibet. They lost the war. China won. The rebals of the confederacy lost. In this country we have a strong personal rights. So people can fly the flag of traitors from their porches and pickup trucks. But any government institution be it state or Federal should be looking at Treason Charges. It is honestly that simple.

I disagree. The flag was flown by rebels. Our country was founded on a rebellion, that is one reason it's allowed to keep flying.

I don't think everyone in the world likes America's flag at the end of the day. If I went over to other countries and started to walk around with U.S. Flag Symbols..people might give me dirty looks and say something, other places it would be worse. However, the reason we can fly these flags is the freedom that our country enjoys. Little detail's start messing with the freedom we enjoy..if anything we need to keep fighting for these freedom's across the board. Freedom is what is important..rule's just clutter and mess it all up. So when the next person asks why in country we have all these benefits to act, say , speak , behave...that was intended.

Quote

And you can rightly argue that the American flag comes down to one thing as well: expansion without remorse.

I love this.

@ Stud. The cultural victories come through slowing down and letting everyone do there thing. Understanding comes after that, someday. We have a long way to go as we are still trying to tell/yell our own belief structure towards each other. OR we might just you know conquer everyone through our very expressed version of freedom.

I agree that idiviuals can fly the confederate flag. What there should be no question about is that it was a flag of rebellion against the United states. A rebellion that lost. Thus it is the flag of traitors and should not be flown in any kind of state (be it federal or state) sponsored/controled area...i.e Federal lands/state parks/state buildings and what not.

[Terez]

Briar King, on 18 July 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

I been staying away from the flag convo but I'm the opposite end there.

That is because you are a white southerner.

Briar King, on 18 July 2015 - 11:56 PM, said:

They should fly on state buildings in every Confederate state that was in it. It's history and it reminds us that we have changed and grown.

It does no such thing. It reminds us how much we are still the same, especially when white people defend it as "our heritage", ignoring the fact that it has been used to terrorize black people since the War ended - black people who make up as much as 40% of our populations. It's not "our heritage". It's a heritage of white supremacy.

[Terez]

Yes, historical flags belong in museums, not on official government poles, especially when they are symbols of white supremacy.

[Andorion]

The point I think is to parse the phrase "our history"/ In the context of the America SOuth what could Our mean?

It could mean a person who is proud of the Civil War and the Confederacy and wants to remember that through the flag - a symbol of a heroic struggle for freedom maybe

It could mean a person who is horrified at the history of slavery and racisma nd sees the flag as a symbil of perpetuation of that shame.

It could mean a person who doesn't really know that much about the Civil War but sees the flag as a symbol of the South.

It could mean a person who sees it as the banner of slavery and racist domination, a domination that rings true everytime another black person loses his life unjustly.

So, Our History can mean many things, often polarizingly different things. In the wake of the Charleston shootings, a blatant example of the racism that is already there I think the consensus that this symbol should not fly form government buildings is very appropriate. Public buildings are the space of the public. Such a divisive symbol has no place there. Private people should have the right to dispay as by doing so they are advertising nothing but their own personal beliefs for all to see.

If the point of flying it is a sort of remembrance a warning of what went before, it is unnecssary. Better to write and teach first class history books which accurately depict and analyze the horrors of slavery.

[Studlock]

I think in the specific history of South Carolina, even without factoring in recent act of terrorism, it would still be appealing to the history of racism and white supremacy. The flag in the capitol was originally raised in 1962 in a response to and resistance against the Civil Rights movement--it was clearly appealing to the symbolic value it has as the flag of the Confederation and its ideals. It was never meant as a tool to remember history, it was meant as a tool of state control through terrorizing a part its populace because they demanded rights that should have been afforded them for being human beings.

[Silencer]

So I'll admit I'm a bit out of the loop with the US election stuff at the moment, but did I just see on the news that Trump's campaign is "in jeopardy" not because of the blatant racism and lack of credibility, but because he made a derogatory comment about McCain's military service and by way of foot in mouth also every POW?

I mean, that's pretty bad by itself, but I don't think it compares to racism. USA... What the hell? Or is this just a case of media/international media perspective being disconnected from reality?

[Terez]

Remember that Trump is campaigning for the Republican nomination, and primaries are low-turnout affairs determined by the hardcore base of the party. That's the only reason he's doing well in the polls, and part of the reason he's showing well is because there are so many candidates splitting up the vote. He's only pulling about 20% of likely GOP primary voters.

And yes, the GOP base generally cares a lot more about military service than social justice issues. He was popular because of his comments on race, not despite them. If he somehow does manage to capture the nomination he has no chance of winning unless the Democratic candidate gets mired in a really crazy scandal.

[Silencer]

My concern is that this still works. Much as I know American politics are absurdly right-wing and that the Republicans are functionally closer to Nazism than most might care to admit, how is it that Donald Trump can have 20% of the polls for that party despite the racism, but lose it over military service? It's Donald fucking Trump and he's getting slammed for his opinion on something that is largely irrelevant to politics. Fuck me.

[amphibian]

Because the polls are done with people who will answer phone calls and in-person questionnaires.

This is a self-selecting population that skews old, wacko, and hateful. The biggest slice of poll-answerers are for Trump.

The people who give money (the people who matter more in the actual primaries and general elections) are overwhelmingly going for Jeb Bush and Hilary Clinton. Ted Cruz and Marco Rubio are the next best fundraisers, but it's a very big step down from Bush/Clinton to Rubio/Cruz.

[HoosierDaddy]

Silencer, on 20 July 2015 - 06:59 AM, said:

My concern is that this still works. Much as I know American politics are absurdly right-wing and that the Republicans are functionally closer to Nazism than most might care to admit, how is it that Donald Trump can have 20% of the polls for that party despite the racism, but lose it over military service? It's Donald fucking Trump and he's getting slammed for his opinion on something that is largely irrelevant to politics. Fuck me.

McCain was the face of the Republican party for at least years, and he was initially elected as a "war hero." Trump threw a superbly stupid suckerpunch at someone not even in the race. The other candidates couldn't outright (other than Jeb Bush) call him the racist, fucktard, bigot that he is for his comments on Mexico without painting themselves as soft on immigration, which is a no-no in the hard right. However, let slip something like this out and they'll pounce. It's why he'll be done after the first couple of debates. He'll be made to say the whacko shit that he believes and the other candidates will get narrowed down to where the real candidates can pummel him.

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 20 July 2015 - 10:34 PM

[worry]

Rick Perry('s communications staff) in particular is flinging pretty sharp barbs at him. What this says to me is that the early debates will be watchable as long as Trump and Perry are both there.

[Obdigore]

Silencer, on 20 July 2015 - 06:44 AM, said:

So I'll admit I'm a bit out of the loop with the US election stuff at the moment, but did I just see on the news that Trump's campaign is "in jeopardy" not because of the blatant racism and lack of credibility, but because he made a derogatory comment about McCain's military service and by way of foot in mouth also every POW?

I mean, that's pretty bad by itself, but I don't think it compares to racism. USA... What the hell? Or is this just a case of media/international media perspective being disconnected from reality?

Because Trump is currently playing to the furthest right/up of the american voting base, the regressive/authoritarians that actually answer their land lines in the middle of the day, take surveys, and turn out to early GOP polls.

Racism plays well to them. Anti-military does not. McCain is viewed as a war hero because he served and was captured and some other stuff happened, but the crowd that turns out for these polls are very much lovers of the military.

[Terez]

New poll has Trump pulling his most impressive lead yet. Doesn't reflect any movement since his comments on McCain yet though. Trump 24, Walker 13, Jeb 12.

http://abcnews.go.co...ory?id=32576808

[Tsundoku]

Hmmm ... interesting ...

http://www.bbc.com/n...canada-33469464

"Feel the Bern". Heh.

[Vengeance]

Briar King, on 21 July 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Haha he gave out Graham's cell number on air.

Yeah that was a pretty awesome move!

[Terez]

Vengeance, on 22 July 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

Briar King, on 21 July 2015 - 08:48 PM, said:

Haha he gave out Graham's cell number on air.

Yeah that was a pretty awesome move!

Depends on your definition of awesome.

It's kind of sad to see the stunts they have to get up to in order to make the first Fox debate. Like Graham smashing phones. He should just come out of the closet; it would be better for his chances.

[worry]

I hope this ends Mike Huckabee's career. His faux-Mayberry routine hides a totally ruthless scumbag on par with Palin/Limbaugh/Coulter/D'souza.
https://twitter.com/...398323629797376

[Gust Hubb]

http://www.bbc.com/n...canada-33660969

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
"If Donald Trump's presidential bid is dead, no one bothered to tell Mr Trump - or his supporters.

Just a week ago, following the New York billionaire's mocking comments about 2008 Republican nominee John McCain's Vietnam POW experience, pundits and prognosticators were busy etching his political epitaph.

"The circus is almost over," Republican strategist Rick Wilson said in Politico. "My advice to Trump fans? Don't be the last clown out of the tent."

The previous Republican nominee Mitt Romney blasted Mr Trump, as did current candidates Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and Lindsey Graham.

All that was left was to wait for the latest poll results to come in and see exactly how precipitous Mr Trump's fall would be.

Naysayers are going to have to wait a bit longer, it seems. A CNN/ORD national survey conducted entirely after the McCain dust-up, for instance, puts Mr Trump ahead with the support of 18% of Republicans, Mr Bush at 15% and Mr Walker at 10%.

So, how to explain Mr Trump's enduring appeal? Here are five possible factors at play...."