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The USA Politics Thread

#14621 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 12:49 PM

 Azath Vitr (D, on 07 January 2025 - 09:29 PM, said:

Quote

Speaking to reporters at his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida, Trump would not rule out using military force to seize control of the Panama Canal and Greenland, citing national security interests.

[...] He also threatened to impose high tariffs on Denmark, while predicting the people of Greenland would welcome his plan.

Takeaways from Trump's Mar-a-Lago press conference



... and there it is. My Trump Whisperer score just went back up! Hooray!

... but as I posted about in the Canadian Politics thread he did also "rule out" (wink, wink?) using military force to annex Canada, saying he wants to use economic force to do it instead (not kidding for once... or to be more precise, I'm not kidding about him not kidding).


He's not going to do any of this. Again, these things would be declaring war on his ALLIES. I don't care how crazy he is, he's not going to openly lead America into war with its neighbours and allies and no one will follow him to do it.


I feel like I'm taking crazy pills....like countries like Denmark and Canada are just going to roll over and let him? This would be a WWIII scenario...and no one will follow him into it.

Stop talking about it. You're literally falling into the distraction trap he wants you to...FFS he said they were renaming the Gulf of Mexico into the Gulf of America. He's doing what he's always done, say the MOST unhinged and batshit insane things to distract from the stuff he will actually do. He's setting an "anchor"...it's a negotiation tactic....and it's working on people because he caused JT to respond to him....which means they are paying attention...which is what he wants....so that when he comes to the the table with stuff that is still unpalatable but much less so than this bombastic shit, it will seem tame and more acceptable.

The media needs to stop giving shit like this air...

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 08 January 2025 - 01:32 PM

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#14622 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 04:24 PM

 QuickTidal, on 08 January 2025 - 12:49 PM, said:

He's not going to do any of this. Again, these things would be declaring war on his ALLIES. I don't care how crazy he is, he's not going to openly lead America into war with its neighbours and allies and no one will follow him to do it.


I feel like I'm taking crazy pills....like countries like Denmark and Canada are just going to roll over and let him? This would be a WWIII scenario...and no one will follow him into it.



But won't they be much better allies after Trump conquers them?

Putin would follow him. Or maybe it's more the other way around...

Try to put yourself into the mindset of a sociopath. If the US is allying with Putin and other authoritarians, then in the long term, annexing Canada, Greenland, and taking control of the Panama Canal make sense as goals. Trump can get enough people to follow him (and whatever ridiculous justifications he comes up with---Great Conman Theory of History?...).

Trump's probably at least a year or two away from purging the military, realizing his authoritarian ambitions, and preparing enough of his followers---at least in the military---for wars of aggression. Hopefully there's still only a very low probability of it happening, but it's best not to treat it as trivial. He's laying the groundwork already. If we need Greenland on "national security" grounds, why exclude Canada? China and Isis could be massing forces on the Canadian border! Gotta restore order. And export plenty of Jesus.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 08 January 2025 - 04:24 PM

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#14623 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 08 January 2025 - 07:27 PM

 Azath Vitr (D, on 08 January 2025 - 04:24 PM, said:

 QuickTidal, on 08 January 2025 - 12:49 PM, said:

He's not going to do any of this. Again, these things would be declaring war on his ALLIES. I don't care how crazy he is, he's not going to openly lead America into war with its neighbours and allies and no one will follow him to do it.


I feel like I'm taking crazy pills....like countries like Denmark and Canada are just going to roll over and let him? This would be a WWIII scenario...and no one will follow him into it.



But won't they be much better allies after Trump conquers them?

Putin would follow him. Or maybe it's more the other way around...

Try to put yourself into the mindset of a sociopath. If the US is allying with Putin and other authoritarians, then in the long term, annexing Canada, Greenland, and taking control of the Panama Canal make sense as goals. Trump can get enough people to follow him (and whatever ridiculous justifications he comes up with---Great Conman Theory of History?...).

Trump's probably at least a year or two away from purging the military, realizing his authoritarian ambitions, and preparing enough of his followers---at least in the military---for wars of aggression. Hopefully there's still only a very low probability of it happening, but it's best not to treat it as trivial. He's laying the groundwork already. If we need Greenland on "national security" grounds, why exclude Canada? China and Isis could be massing forces on the Canadian border! Gotta restore order. And export plenty of Jesus.



Just how much of an ally will Putler be is still questionable. We are yet to see whether there'll be any compromising that makes Trump look like a good peacemaker, or if he'll publically embarass him.
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View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#14624 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 10 January 2025 - 02:51 AM

So, Dump is being sentenced on Friday US time, and SCOTUS rejected his bid to delay sentencing?
Am I seeing things, or is it because SCOTUS figured since there's nothing in it they can afford this display of apparent independence?

https://www.news.com...e99f44b77fdf474

Carefully note: "Judge Juan M. Merchan has previously said he will not impose jail time, fines or prohibitions in his sentencing."
So what's the fucking point? What is he going to sentence him to - a stern lecture?
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#14625 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 10 January 2025 - 07:06 AM

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 08 January 2025 - 04:24 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 08 January 2025 - 12:49 PM, said:

He's not going to do any of this. Again, these things would be declaring war on his ALLIES. I don't care how crazy he is, he's not going to openly lead America into war with its neighbours and allies and no one will follow him to do it.


I feel like I'm taking crazy pills....like countries like Denmark and Canada are just going to roll over and let him? This would be a WWIII scenario...and no one will follow him into it.



But won't they be much better allies after Trump conquers them?

Not if you go into the specifics of replacing one administrative system with another.

Quote

Putin would follow him. Or maybe it's more the other way around...

Nope. Putin is tethered to China. Even if he would pivot to a Trump-led US, he knows any Trump successor (especially an elected one) will turn against him. Trump wants Putin’s personal approval, maybe. He certainly envies his autocratic position and image as sole ruler - but more than Putin’s approval, Trump wants to look strong and in charge.

Quote

Try to put yourself into the mindset of a sociopath. If the US is allying with Putin and other authoritarians, then in the long term, annexing Canada, Greenland, and taking control of the Panama Canal make sense as goals. Trump can get enough people to follow him (and whatever ridiculous justifications he comes up with---Great Conman Theory of History?...).

Because that’s not how things work?
Again, Trump will be president for 4 years. After that, even if somehow he manages to get another term (biiiiiiiiig assumption), he will still be ruled by short term interests, because his lifespan will be short. Occupation is never short term. IMHO, when and if he gets legal immunity and get his kids and sycophants into the best positions possible, he’s done and doesn’t care anymore.

Quote

Trump's probably at least a year or two away from purging the military, realizing his authoritarian ambitions, and preparing enough of his followers---at least in the military---for wars of aggression. Hopefully there's still only a very low probability of it happening, but it's best not to treat it as trivial. He's laying the groundwork already. If we need Greenland on "national security" grounds, why exclude Canada? China and Isis could be massing forces on the Canadian border! Gotta restore order. And export plenty of Jesus.

The US has used plenty of iffy justifications in the past 80 years to intervene in foreign countries, but it hasn’t started a war of aggression with the outright aim of conquest… “only” regime change. It won’t now. Chances are too large of being caught with their pants down by China attacking Taiwan. Even if Trump does not think of that, his China hawks will. Getting him to respond to that correctly is going to be hard enough, all the more so if he’s on a personal adventure.
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#14626 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 10 January 2025 - 07:31 AM

This whole Greenland/Canada/Panama thing is just a smokescreen so the media focuses on that instead of something more insidious going on elsewhere anyway.
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#14627 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 10 January 2025 - 01:15 PM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 10 January 2025 - 07:31 AM, said:

This whole Greenland/Canada/Panama thing is just a smokescreen so the media focuses on that instead of something more insidious going on elsewhere anyway.


Yes this, and add in that he's setting those batshit bombastic "I'm going to do this impossible thing!" statements as distant anchors to negotiations so that when he suggests lesser but more feasible things that would have been unpalatable before, they seem palatable compared to "annexing Greenland" or "conquering Canada"

This is all out of his playbook that he's been using for years.


I wish the media would not fall for it. I wish they all just said "He said what? Haha, yeah okay chief" and then moved on with their news day and not give it any air....but this guy's utter batshit nonsense gets clicks and eyeballs so that love it, and to me that makes them as complicit as he is.

And that motherfucker on Fox News saying we should be thankful and accepting of US rule...whatever his name is....how does he not get punched more? What a smarmy fucking tool bag.
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#14628 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 10 January 2025 - 01:40 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 10 January 2025 - 01:15 PM, said:

View PostTiste Simeon, on 10 January 2025 - 07:31 AM, said:

This whole Greenland/Canada/Panama thing is just a smokescreen so the media focuses on that instead of something more insidious going on elsewhere anyway.


Yes this, and add in that he's setting those batshit bombastic "I'm going to do this impossible thing!" statements as distant anchors to negotiations so that when he suggests lesser but more feasible things that would have been unpalatable before, they seem palatable compared to "annexing Greenland" or "conquering Canada"

This is all out of his playbook that he's been using for years.


I wish the media would not fall for it. I wish they all just said "He said what? Haha, yeah okay chief" and then moved on with their news day and not give it any air....but this guy's utter batshit nonsense gets clicks and eyeballs so that love it, and to me that makes them as complicit as he is.

And that motherfucker on Fox News saying we should be thankful and accepting of US rule...whatever his name is....how does he not get punched more? What a smarmy fucking tool bag.


How dare you, sir! Tool bags are useful, noone on Fox is.
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#14629 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 11 January 2025 - 09:47 AM

I was informed by my batshit une last night that Trump was going to save the world, not just america
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#14630 User is offline   Garak 

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Posted 11 January 2025 - 11:21 AM

Some people are nuts. We have people who claim our old communist dictator was a good thing.
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#14631 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 11 January 2025 - 03:25 PM

View PostTapper, on 10 January 2025 - 07:06 AM, said:

Not if you go into the specifics of replacing one administrative system with another.


Trump probably only cares about the wealth that can be generated by extracting resources and controlling trade routes. He'd outsource most of the administration of that to private industry, aided by the military. Company mining towns and shipping ports. The native populations can fend for themselves, or be displaced. Greenland has a population of only about 56,000---more than enough for the US private prison industry to profitably enslave (as they have inmates in the 16 US states where it's still legal even for US citizens). Or maybe he'd let far-right Christian groups in to do their "work" (instead of providing governemnt services, etc. for the native population). Or Trump could follow the example of his avowed favorite president and---particularly if the natives try to fight back---commit genocide (after indiscriminately labeling them as "terrorists") or force the native population onto reservations (Trail of Tears). Granted, Canada does have a few more people, and Trump might actually like to tax them---or have the military exact tribute.

Quote

Trump will be president for 4 years. After that, even if somehow he manages to get another term (biiiiiiiiig assumption), he will still be ruled by short term interests, because his lifespan will be short. Occupation is never short term.


He still cares about money and "tough guy" status. Trump would get immediate pay-outs from the corporations who stand to benefit from the long-term plunder of Greenland---or Canada. And he'd elevate his "tough guy" strongman cred. Putin and Xi would love it, and pay him even more than they already have been.

Quote

Putin is tethered to China. Even if he would pivot to a Trump-led US, he knows any Trump successor (especially an elected one) will turn against him. Trump wants Putin's personal approval, maybe. He certainly envies his autocratic position and image as sole ruler - but more than Putin's approval, Trump wants to look strong and in charge.


Trump will use the threat of China as as an excuse to build up the US military. But he fundamentally doesn't care about Taiwan. He would rather ally with Xi than with democracies. There's more in it for him. If he hasn't already, he's probably going to make a secret agreement with Xi to allow China to (try to) take Taiwan once viable alternative semiconductor supply chains have been set up---in exchange for a bribe.

Trump does see China as an economic competitor and potential competitor for status and power. But Xi cares enough about "reunification" with Taiwan---and takes enough of a long-view---to be willing to temporarily take actions which would at least seem (to Trump at least) to give the US more of a military and economic advantage over the rest of Trump's probable lifespan. Xi tends to take the multi-decade view, playing the long game.

Quote

Trump's rhetoric toward China and its autocratic leader, Xi Jinping, is far more complimentary than it was at the beginning of his first term. Trump has even suggested he could back away from Taiwan, which Xi [...] wants to reclaim — which he possibly could if the United States steps aside. [...] Trump is staffing his administration with China hawks, and his bite could turn out to be worse than his bark. But Trump could also use those hardliners as bad cops threatening punitive policies as a setup for Trump the good cop offering deliverance.

[...] In 2023, Trump called the Chinese autocrat a "brilliant man" with Hollywood good looks. He repeated the praise last fall, adding how impressed he is that Xi "controls 1.4 billion people with an iron fist." Trump even invited Xi to his Jan. 20 inauguration.

[...] Xi wants to "reunify" and has ordered China's military to be ready to do it by force by 2027. Trump hasn't said he'd allow that, but he's put more distance between the United States and Taiwan than any other modern president.'

https://finance.yaho...-110039907.html


The hawks may squawk, but Trump is Big Bird.

The world's democracies would be extremely hard pressed to respond to simultaneous invasions of Greenland by the US, Taiwan by China, and Russian attacks on Europe alongside a renewed invasion of Ukraine or other adjacent nations. Simultaneous economic sanctions on the United States and China would risk devastating European economies. But the "ideal" scenario for the authoritarian axis would be if they could sabotage the nuclear capabilities of France and the UK---Putin almost certainly has had Russian agents hard at work at that for a long time, but Trump may add US spy agencies (if he can find enough sufficiently loyal and competent people---perhaps Russia will offer to help train them?).


View PostTapper, on 10 January 2025 - 07:06 AM, said:


The US has used plenty of iffy justifications in the past 80 years to intervene in foreign countries, but it hasn't started a war of aggression with the outright aim of conquest… "only" regime change


The US has used "national security" as a pretext for wars of resource extraction and occupation---consider how the Vice President's former company, Halliburton, plundered Iraqi oil in the wake of the war. Of course Trump will (publicly) frame it as an issue of "national security".
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#14632 User is offline   the broken 

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Posted 11 January 2025 - 08:55 PM

The media aren't falling for it, they're doing it open eyed because they're making money.

Trump can be relied on for crazy headlines, crazy headlines= money. Doesn't matter that none of it will actually happen.
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#14633 User is offline   Lady Bliss 

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Posted 11 January 2025 - 09:37 PM

I can’t say that it can’t or will happen anymore, but I do find the truth lies somewhere between all of the news networks so I read them all. I do think that trump is playing a shell game with us, and while his ultimate goal MAY be absolute power, given the fact that he isn’t going to live much longer it must be setting up something for his kids and that Elon Musk is likely negotiating for something he wants like the right to run for president. What follows could be hunger games/hand maids tale crazy.
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#14634 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 11 January 2025 - 10:34 PM

View PostLady Bliss, on 11 January 2025 - 09:37 PM, said:

I can't say that it can't or will happen anymore, but I do find the truth lies somewhere between all of the news networks so I read them all. I do think that trump is playing a shell game with us, and while his ultimate goal MAY be absolute power, given the fact that he isn't going to live much longer it must be setting up something for his kids and that Elon Musk is likely negotiating for something he wants like the right to run for president. What follows could be hunger games/hand maids tale crazy.



People that egomaniacal tend to believe they'll live much longer than they're likely to.

Musk apparently seduced Grimes in part by offering her immortality---either as some sort of cyborg or by "uploading her brain" into GAI. Wonder if he seduced Trump with the same offer (well, that and lots of money...). So Trump may literally believe he'll live almost forever. In principle he could outlive the Earth... as TrAIump the Insult Vomit Go*.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 11 January 2025 - 10:34 PM

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#14635 User is offline   Nicodimas 

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Posted 12 January 2025 - 04:54 AM

One of the richest most affluent areas in California burned to ground ..houses up to 50 million for refence. Clocking ..150 billion...still lots more to burn.

These were the believers in climate change, dei .. affirmative action. All those folks that believe in progressive change and science to their own behavior and beliefs. All gone.

May these areas be replaced with multi housing complexes...

I hope they put great sprawling homeless projects and low income structures to support the growing need and support for what the (left) have done to modern America. Hah! Prolly not ..most of the left will continue to support these folks that are basically ..saying one thing..and reality keeps growing ..well dimmer.
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#14636 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 12 January 2025 - 08:10 AM

View PostNicodimas, on 12 January 2025 - 04:54 AM, said:

One of the richest most affluent areas in California burned to ground ..houses up to 50 million for refence. Clocking ..150 billion...still lots more to burn.

These were the believers in climate change, dei .. affirmative action. All those folks that believe in progressive change and science to their own behavior and beliefs. All gone.

Ah yes, being less racist and more inclusive definitely set these fires off.

You need to stop drinking the unhinged kool aid.

But don't worry, your dream of segregated ghettoes, guns in every school (for the whites anyway), people being arrested for being gay and shrines to Trump and Musk is not far away I'm sure.
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#14637 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 12 January 2025 - 09:10 AM

When the island nations flood and are washed away it will he their fault too Tiste
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#14638 User is offline   Mezla PigDog 

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Posted 12 January 2025 - 10:00 AM

Rich people do have a much larger carbon footprint than poor people.

Not that anyone deserves total displacement and ruin due to climate change. [I can think of a few exceptions]. And I'm not agreeing with the idiot. But if you want a binary way of setting up the karmic scales, wealth is probably the best one. But that puts all of us westerners in the shit when weighed against the billions of poor folk elsewhere so LOOK AWAY.
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#14639 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 12 January 2025 - 10:31 AM

View PostNicodimas, on 12 January 2025 - 04:54 AM, said:

One of the richest most affluent areas in California burned to ground ..houses up to 50 million for refence. Clocking ..150 billion...still lots more to burn.

These were the believers in climate change, dei .. affirmative action. All those folks that believe in progressive change and science to their own behavior and beliefs. All gone.

May these areas be replaced with multi housing complexes...

I hope they put great sprawling homeless projects and low income structures to support the growing need and support for what the (left) have done to modern America. Hah! Prolly not ..most of the left will continue to support these folks that are basically ..saying one thing..and reality keeps growing ..well dimmer.


It's been called "a sequel to Lahaina".

https://www.khon2.co...o-la-wildfires/

"Raging Los Angeles wildfires feel like 'Lahaina all over again' for survivors"

https://www.hawaiine...gain-survivors/

Interesting how your reaction to the Lahaina fires was so much different.

As for LA being progressive...

In the last election, Los Angeles county voted against ending slavery, 53.3% to 46.7% (I just now checked the results by county). Proposition 6.

https://laist.com/ne...voter-game-plan

That may partly be because 30% of the firefighters in California are inmates. Granted, while they are forced to work and paid far less than minimum wage, they apparently have to volunteer to become firefighters (... for now; if (hu)manpower becomes enough of an issue, that could change).

OTOH it's perhaps fair to criticize the hypocrisy of people who are practically able to move away from the areas most likely to be rendered unlivable by climate change and know about the risk but refuse to do so, and then expect the state to subsidize their folly when they can't get private insurance....

But Los Angeles is not known for science or scientific literacy. People there promote all sorts of crunchy mostly counterproductive nonsense like juice cleanses and ineffective or mildly harmful supplements (well, they might have a positive placebo effect of course). And in the last few years that sort of crunchy uber-pseudo-science has become a mainstay of the far right---first through people like Alex Jones hawking supplements, then Fox News ads, and now the Con-mander in Thief on the verge of appointing RFK Jr to head HHS... that's it's apotheosis.

For the most part, the residents of LA don't believe in science or anything resembling intellectually rigorous progressivism. These days they believe in social media. And capitalism. And, to some extent, Hollywood. Fame, wealth, and physical attractiveness are the "values" they're most known for valuing.
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#14640 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 13 January 2025 - 12:54 PM

View PostNicodimas, on 12 January 2025 - 04:54 AM, said:


These were the believers in climate change



You mean the very climate change that indeed created wildfires in January, which is the furthest away you can get in the year from the natural time of wildfires in California? Seems like they were right to believe in it then, huh?

Or was your comment a more ghoulish "Haha, your climate change came and it ate your house HAHA!"...which...brother, there's literally no need to act like that.
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