[Omtose]

Liosan was very early on the Eloth train right enough, a very strange move if he was allied, especially if he knew he was on a team with Eloth. His posting/behaviour has seemed slightly erratic but out of the two I think Silanah's outburst is more likely to reveal a connection with the Uesagi.

[Sorrit]

Maybe im going back here, but I'm confused as to why everyone accepts Uesugi Fusayoshi as a leader?

I'm seeing nothing about him on Wiki except how he relates to other people, he does not even have his own Wiki Page. Is it soley because of the name?

[Sorrit]

Korvalain, on 25 January 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

what does all of the above mean? I am leaning towards Silanah, Olar, TS and Shadow as my most likely Uesagi suspects (In that order..first being most likely). Since it's been determined that there are 5 factions... well, they all can't be. But if I had to draw from a list, and we were culture hunting, thats the list I would draw from.

How has it been 'determined' that there are 5 factions? Or do you just agree with the person who suggested this for some reason? Do you belong to a fifth faction that has not been announced as being in an alliance?

[Korvalain]

Sheltatha Lore, on 25 January 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

I'm OK with voting Silanah instead of Tulas, but then from what I see it's all about her reaction to the lynch. (BTW I don't see why Korvalain does all that lynch train analysis to then vote someone who didn't vote )

If she reacted like this because we just lynched her boss, that's not such a good play. Then again, not impossible, some people still need to learn that posting angry is the equivalent of drunk-calling your ex.


edit: Errr, Tulas, not Eloth

Yeah, I am voting Silanah, but the fact that he was not on the train, is actually more incriminating than being on the train. My train analysis was more because I had a memory of people being on Merrid, then switching to Eloth at the end. As I was typing out the train analysis post, I realized that my top 3 people... weren't even on the train. ( and that stands to reaso)

[Korvalain]

Sorrit, on 25 January 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 25 January 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

what does all of the above mean? I am leaning towards Silanah, Olar, TS and Shadow as my most likely Uesagi suspects (In that order..first being most likely). Since it's been determined that there are 5 factions... well, they all can't be. But if I had to draw from a list, and we were culture hunting, thats the list I would draw from.

How has it been 'determined' that there are 5 factions? Or do you just agree with the person who suggested this for some reason? Do you belong to a fifth faction that has not been announced as being in an alliance?

Path Shaper Mentioned a 5th faction in one of his scenes. It's not set in stone, but as he mentioned it with 3 other known factions, I am willing to concede it's likely.

[Korvalain]

Sorrit, on 25 January 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Maybe im going back here, but I'm confused as to why everyone accepts Uesugi Fusayoshi as a leader?

Common sense?

Path-Shaper, on 24 January 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

It is Day 1. There has been a lynch.

20 Players still alive: Atrahal, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Karatallid, Kessobahn, Korlat, Korvalain, Liosan, Merrid, Okaros, Olar Ethil, Omtose, Osseric, Sheltatha Lore, Shadow, Silanah, Sorrit, Tiamatha, Tulas Shorn

11 Votes to Lynch. 10 to go to night.

1 Vote Atrahal: Tulas Shorn
3 Votes Merrid: Eloth, Sorrit, Olar Ethil
10 Votes Eloth: Shetatha Lore, Liosan, Okaros, Galayn Lord, Karatallid, Korvalain, Merrid, Omtose, Shadow, Atrahal

Players not voting: Fener, Kessobahn, Korlat, Osseric, Tiamatha

Uesugi Fusayoshi stared down at the message he held in his hands. The seals were correct. The messenger was correct. The language was correct. It was an official summons to the Imperial Court, for an audience with his revered self, the Emperor. His eyes bulged and his mind raced. There was no way to refuse this summons. He must delay! The way events were moving he knew he had to act now, and if he must remove himself to Kyoto, the potential advantages could pass him by.

He bowed his acquiescence to the messenger. "May I ask what has caused the Son of Heaven to call upon me?"

The messenger bowed his head in mock deference. "His majesty is currently entertaining a royal delegation from Korea, and word of your famous 'bow of Hachiman, god of war' has deemed worthy of interest. They wish to see it."

"Please allow me to delay this!" He thought. Aloud Fusayoshi replied, "It is one of the greatest treasures of the Uesugi. If it were at all possible, I would like to send the bow ahead to be inspected, and I will arrive later to pay my respects."

"That will not be possible," the imperial messenger replied, "the honorable Uesugi has been asked for by name."

Unable to conceal his desperation from his face, Fusayoshi acquiesced. After the messenger had left, he immediately sent runners to his most trusted commanders. The campaign would just have to continue without him, and he could do nothing more than hope for the best.

Uesugi Fusayoshi, (Eloth, Gust Hubb) has been lynched. Although his character is not dead, he is no longer a part of the Chapter 2 scenario.

Path-Shaper, on 25 January 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Uji sucked his teeth, tutted and poured some more tea. Interpreting that as a sign of interest from the old innkeeper, Tsuyoshi continued. “Yes, times are going to become thin around here. The farmers are turned back to soldiers and I hear they’ve started fighting up North. Or maybe it was West? Probably both. Some border forts have been burned down and that’s sent troops swarming about like mad.
What’s more is those bastards the Takeda appear to be moving on the Ashikaga. Just like them to go and disturb the peace. And that’s sent the Uesugi and Miura scrambling to press their flank, trying to find an advantage. Or maybe it was the Fujiwari? Bah, it doesn’t matter which banner is on the field in the end.”
Uji smiled and bowed obsequiously. War had naught to do with his poor old inn.

Usubu Toyokuni rallied his men into a defense cordon and watched them steady against the next charge that was sure to come. He drew his sword, promising that as he died he’d take some of those bastard Takeda with him. He heard the conch blow, and turned to face the renewed teeth of the Takeda assault. “Ashikaaaaaagaaaaa” he roared as the first wave swarmed over his men.

Usubu Toyokuni of the Ashikaga (Osseric/twelve) is dead.

The war that had ignited first with the burning of forts along the contested lands between the Uesugi, Takeda and Miura was also waged in quiet rooms, far from any battlefield. The possibility of enemies becoming allies, or even vassals, kept many a spy and messenger in daily rice. There were some, however, who chose to honor their Allies even unto death.

1. He is not "Killed" just removed from the game. This says he is someone important.
2. In the scene, which Shin said would have clues, It is a clan leader being called away by the emperor and having to leave his clan in the hands of his Generals.
3. In his CF there is no mention of what clan he is in. But if you look at Osseric's CF it clearly states his clan as Ashikaga. (all CF' s *should* give the same info)
4. His First name is Uesugi... which is the name of one of the clans.

[Shadow]

Sorrit, on 25 January 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Maybe im going back here, but I'm confused as to why everyone accepts Uesugi Fusayoshi as a leader?

I'm seeing nothing about him on Wiki except how he relates to other people, he does not even have his own Wiki Page. Is it soley because of the name?

There were clues within the scene. The scene made it pretty obvious that he was a leader. Either way, I looked it up. He was a Fuedal Lord of the Uesugi province.

[Merrid]

Korvalain, on 25 January 2012 - 07:39 PM, said:

[ ... snip ...]

1. He is not "Killed" just removed from the game. This says he is someone important.
2. In the scene, which Shin said would have clues, It is a clan leader being called away by the emperor and having to leave his clan in the hands of his Generals.
3. In his CF there is no mention of what clan he is in. But if you look at Osseric's CF it clearly states his clan as Ashikaga. (all CF' s *should* give the same info)
4. His First name is Uesugi... which is the name of one of the clans.

I wouldn't count on #4 -> a lot of these clans have big, big families.

The other 3 are right, though.

[Liosan]

I felt galayn lord seemed to know too much and thought multiple others believed the same so i voted and hoped others would follow. As a non uesugi, and judging by silanah's outburst that he is...
Remove vote
Vote silanah

[Galayn Lord]

Sorrit, on 25 January 2012 - 06:59 PM, said:

Maybe im going back here, but I'm confused as to why everyone accepts Uesugi Fusayoshi as a leader?

I'm seeing nothing about him on Wiki except how he relates to other people, he does not even have his own Wiki Page. Is it soley because of the name?

No. Fusayoshi is (elsewhere) named as head-honcho for the traditional Uesugi provinces. Simply put: he may not have his own wiki, but there was no higher Uesugi around at the time, end of story. The fact that he's summoned to the capital as the possessor of an Uesugi heirloom also indicates he's the pater familias.

The Uesugi are mostly famous for Uesugi Kenshin, yet Uesugi Kenshin is not of the original lineage at all. As you probably read, the original Uesugi lineage dies with one of Fusayoshi's sons, and Kenshin's father Tamekage was doing the overthrowing. He then claiming name and title for himself (the name undoubtedly to legitimize his claim - the same happened with the Hojo, which was also a very ancient family that was 'revived').


So while Fusayoshi is perhaps a footnote in history and only known because he fell to a far better general/politician, at this time (a few months/ years after the Hojo rebellion) it seems there is simply no higher ranking Uesugi around.

[Galayn Lord]

Sorrit, on 25 January 2012 - 07:04 PM, said:

Korvalain, on 25 January 2012 - 06:29 PM, said:

what does all of the above mean? I am leaning towards Silanah, Olar, TS and Shadow as my most likely Uesagi suspects (In that order..first being most likely). Since it's been determined that there are 5 factions... well, they all can't be. But if I had to draw from a list, and we were culture hunting, thats the list I would draw from.

How has it been 'determined' that there are 5 factions? Or do you just agree with the person who suggested this for some reason? Do you belong to a fifth faction that has not been announced as being in an alliance?

Perhaps you should re-read Path-Shaper's stories a bit closer.

He has named 4 clans in the alliance posts on day 1 and a fifth clan (Miura) in the night 1 resolution, which has been quoted by Korvalain. Of course, that may be artistic license, but how likely is that? If we go with an equal number of players per faction, 20 can be divided by 4 and 5, after that only by 10. If there were 10 clans, there would probably have been a heck of a lot more alliances on both day 1 and day 2. So either the Miura are a red herring (meaning 4x5 players), or we have 5 clans of 4 players each.

Take your pick.

I think there are 5 though, and not just because of fluff in P-S stories. For balance reasons, an uneven amount of factions make sense, because a lucky alliance that manages to create a gap in player-numbers (like the Fujiwara and Takeda now have over the Uesugi-Ashikaga alliance of day 1) early on in the game could then just mass-reveal and march to the end-zone by lynching one opponent a day. A faction that balances the numbers against such a dominant alliance would even the playing field just a bit. Feel free to disagree, though.

[Olar Ethil]

im back and catching up. thoughts to follow

[Fener]

I'm here too and just going to read up - and have some dinner whilst I ruminate.

[Silanah]

I'm back, and I am catching up.

[Silanah]

Liosan, on 25 January 2012 - 08:34 PM, said:

I felt galayn lord seemed to know too much and thought multiple others believed the same so i voted and hoped others would follow. As a non uesugi, and judging by silanah's outburst that he is...
Remove vote
Vote silanah

It is difficult to tell here, but who are you labeling a "non-Uesugi"? If you are labeling yourself, that's definitely not a good way to deflect attention. If you are labeling galayn lord or I, it would be extremely unfounded.

[Atrahal]

I notice you're not denying being Uesugi, however....

[Silanah]

Sheltatha Lore, on 25 January 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Shadow, on 25 January 2012 - 12:54 PM, said:

Culture hunt anyone?

1. Silanah
2. Liosan
3. Tulas Shorn

Those are the people that are likely to be Uesugi.

I agree with Tulas Shorn, for reasons I explained above.

Silanah, I guess based on her strange reaction at the lynch, but then again if my leader just got lynched, I would shut the hell up instead of going righteous on our asses. She sounded more pissed at the concept of lynching in general, and with the "Red five" comment from before, maybe she's a leader. But Liosan, I don't see?

Stupid time zones+Google translate+wild lynching+(x)= "strange reaction"

The analyzing of my greeting is interesting. It takes me back to a Lit class I had once, where the teacher endlessly gleaned allegories, symbols, and hidden messages from the assigned reading material.

Also, "Red Five", being Luke Skywalker, was not the leader of the Rebel Red Squadron. The leader was named..."Red Leader".

If I thought you guys would read into this so much, I would have put "Red Six"...

Also, it was the first post on the first day. If any of you were like me, you didn't know who was in your clan, or even, as it turns out, how many clans there actually are.

[Silanah]

Atrahal, on 25 January 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

I notice you're not denying being Uesugi, however....

Certain player's "logic" would inevitably lead to the inference of me "admitting it" if I outright denied.

[Olar Ethil]

ok, that was a lot to work through. lots of guesses, lots of suspects, lots of votes

first, Korvalain's suspicions on myself. when i voted for Merrid it was all still fairly even. both were getting equal suspicion, and i felt that Merrid would be a better lynch cause it looked like he was lying low while Eloth was calling attention to himself. Merrid came on and defended himself, and that pretty much allayed my suspicions, but by the time i came back on (i was asleep... stupid timezone) the lynch had already gone down, and it would have been pointless, not to mention SUPER suspicious, if i had changed my vote after the fact.

now for the rest:
the vote for GL i feel was more Liosan trying to get information out of GL. which is interesting, and GL may have a point when he says Liosan could be reacting to what he already knows.
Sheltatha is still pushing the Tulas Shorn case. ive already said what i think about this case but i do find it odd that Sheltatha is still pushing it when everyone else is looking elsewhere.
Silanah seems to be gaining votes based on a connection with Eloth. from her reaction to the lynch, this is what im leaning towards too.
Liosan is coming under fire from GL. this is another interesting move, and ill be watching Liosan closely to see how he reacts.

at this point im not going to put a vote down, its too early in the day and im worried a lynch train will build without all the suspects being looked at carefully. i will be around for most of the rest of the day though, so i can drop a vote if needed.

[Fener]

First off, pursuing the connections to Eloth seems like the best idea to me for today. It's the most concrete course of action I reckon.

But I do want to just to add a bit more meat on to why I put GL's name out there. Basically, it's the way in which he brought up the idea of other, off-thread, alliances being possible which struck me as reading like someone who already knew this was the case but was trying to put it across like a question. So in the post below GL does everything but say what he's thinking - instead he does that .... question mark tactic of leading others to the idea. Karatallid then obligingly does just that, saying openly what GL was suggesting, before GL confirms it. The manner in which he put this across here just seems so careful, like someone dying to say something but somewhat afraid of the consequences.

Galayn Lord, on 25 January 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Karatallid, on 25 January 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Galayn Lord, on 25 January 2012 - 11:32 AM, said:

I guess this was what Shin means by clues. It was also a kill of a guy from one alliance by a clan in the other.
What is puzzling me: it is called Open Alliance instead of just Alliance... that suggests there may be a different type?

So open allainces announced in thread but there could be hidden alliances told off thread?

I have no proof whatsoever and I don't want to scaremonger, it is just that "Open" is redundant if that is the only type of alliance, isn't it?

I know the above could very well be paranoia reading too much into it. However, the thing that struck me the strangest was that when he brought up the possibility of off-thread alliances, he didn't point to PS' post:

Path-Shaper, on 25 January 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

The war that had ignited first with the burning of forts along the contested lands between the Uesugi, Takeda and Miura was also waged in quiet rooms, far from any battlefield. The possibility of enemies becoming allies, or even vassals, kept many a spy and messenger in daily rice. There were some, however, who chose to honor their Allies even unto death.

Does the bolded part not suggest what GL hinted at more strongly than an interpretation of what 'Open Alliance' could mean? As several have already pointed out, they did not jump to the same conclusion as GL. But then, why did GL not use this as part of his argument? My instinctive answer is to say because he had already come up with a way of putting out there the suggestion of off-thread alliances using the 'Open Alliance' terminology. Meaning he had thought about how to do it. Meaning there is intent (other than innocent contribution) behind it.


Having said all that, GL has already, in my mind, responded very well to Liosan's vote on him. Despite the somewhat OMGUS vote back on Liosan, I think his points have merit - Liosan jumped on this as soon as I mentioned it (and has now just as eagerly jumped off) without elucidating on his thinking process, as I just have above. It struck me that, with his jumping on GL and subsequently Silanah, Liosan looks very eager to start a train on anyone other than himself.

So this post might have started off about GL, but right now Liosan looks mighty like someone who is sweating profusely.