[Abyss]

Slow Ben, on 15 December 2022 - 04:08 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 December 2022 - 03:25 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 15 December 2022 - 03:09 PM, said:

I wonder if the sequel series for Snow is going to have any affect on whatever it is GRRM has planned. Or are they going multiverse type, this is a different story sort of thing.

From want I understand Kit went to GRRM with his idea and GRRM approved it, so I feel like it will be a soft retcon of S8 to align more with what GRRM set out, and the show will add context to everything. Like I think the Prince that was Promised thing is still in play, and the "Long Night" is still in play and has not occurred yet.

I can't see any show continuing Jon's journey to NOT softly retcon some of the more heinous things D&D did in S8.

As such, I expect the two remaining books to sort of align with that if they need to?

But in the end, who knows.

I'm going to be cautiously optimistic that you're correct.

I would hope he just ignores the future of the tvverse and writes the damn books however he wants.
I can understand a reluctance to do 'exactly' what they did for the show but it seems like an unnecessary extra burden. Similarly trying to set up future tv series via the books if just another layer of delay and complication.

[QuickTidal]

That's a fair comment. But I will say that if Kit went to him and he approved it...then I gotta think he thought it was a good idea and as such might incorporate it into if not TWOW, perhaps ADOS?

Just a thought.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 15 December 2022 - 04:17 PM, said:

That's a fair comment. But I will say that if Kit went to him and he approved it...then I gotta think he thought it was a good idea and as such might incorporate it into if not TWOW, perhaps ADOS?

Just a thought.

From GMM's blog, credit to Harrington, he knew how to play the game and attached what seems like a good team...

Quote

Yes, it was Kit Harrington who brought the idea to us. I cannot tell you the names of the writers/ showrunners, since that has not been cleared for release yet… but Kit brought them in too, his own team, and they are terrific.

[QuickTidal]

So this most recent post has caused a lot of kerfuffle with many more devout fans calling shame on people.

https://georgerrmart...meets-hercules/

relevant bit:

Quote

(I know, I know. Some of you will just be pissed off by this, as you are by everything I announce here that is not about Westeros or THE WINDS OF WINTER. You have given up on me, or on the book. I will never finish WINDS, If I do, I will never finish A DREAM OF SPRING. If I do, it won’t be any good. I ought to get some other writer to pinch hit for me… I am going to die soon anyway, because I am so old. I lost all interest in A Song of Ice and Fire decades ago. I don’t give a shit about writing any longer, I just sit around and spend my money. I edit the Wild Cards books too, but you hate Wild Cards. You may hate everything else I have ever written, the Hugo-winners and Hugo-losers, “A Song for Lya” and DYING OF THE LIGHT, “Sandkings” and BEAUTY AND THE BEAST, “This Tower of Ashes” and “The Stone City,” OLD MARS and OLD VENUS and ROGUES and WARRIORS and DANGEROUS WOMEN and all the other anthologies I edited with my friend Gardner Dozois, You don’t care about any of those, I know. You don’t care about anything but WINDS OF WINTER. You’ve told me so often enough).

I maintain, that my dog in this race is next to nil. I have ceased being all interested in what the finished story would look like for the most part and I would wiki-read the last two books like TRB said upthread she would. Samesies.

BUT on the concept of "George owes us"...no, I don't think he does from a broad art standpoint (verbal and written promises of 7 books in the story notwithstanding). I also feel like the problem this post is evidence of is that he's paying too much attention to mentions of himself online and in social media spaces. If he knows what everyone has said enough to post about it, then someone should be advising him to ignore/avoid those online spaces entirely...but he seems intent on doing so anyways.

Do I feel badly that he's read all that negativity? Sure. Do I think that's a mostly self-inflicted wound? Also yes. Avoiding social media is easy if you want to, and avoiding the rest of it means he uses some of his 120million net worth to have a PR team interceding on his behalf everywhere else. Like if people were talking smack about me online, I'd avoid those spaces and just get on with whatever I wanted to do in my life, and if my brand needed that integration, I would have people hired to do it for me so I am insulted from it and can focus on my art, or whatever my focus needs to be.

[amphibian]

He's making these choices over and over to go do these specific things that are not writing ASOIAF instead of delegating.

The guy makes a ton of choices to not do ASOIAF and that's pretty much that. The rest is for everyone to find a place they can reside comfortably while they wait to see if he actually does finish a book or multiple books.No point in getting mad or telling him this - several hundred thousand people have already done that and it didn't lead to more books.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 29 May 2025 - 04:11 PM, said:

He's making these choices over and over to go do these specific things that are not writing ASOIAF instead of delegating.

The guy makes a ton of choices to not do ASOIAF and that's pretty much that. The rest is for everyone to find a place they can reside comfortably while they wait to see if he actually does finish a book or multiple books.No point in getting mad or telling him this - several hundred thousand people have already done that and it didn't lead to more books.

100% agreed.

[Tiste Simeon]

If he'd been open from the beginning like "hey guys I'm really struggling, please be gracious" I think a lot of the animosity would be lessened. Instead it's been "Big news! Made headway! Nearly done!" And then... Nothing.

Don't get me wrong he's still not a big of a douche as that fraud Rothfuss but still it's pretty grating.

I think I'm with QT - Winds of Winter could drop tomorrow and I doubt I'd care. I've got enough to keep me going without getting my hopes that this story will go anywhere or be satisfying.

[champ]

GRRM brings it on himself with quotes like this... from 2020...

Quote

But I tell you this — if I don’t have THE WINDS OF WINTER in hand when I arrive in New Zealand for worldcon, you have here my formal written permission to imprison me in a small cabin on White Island, overlooking that lake of sulfuric acid, until I’m done.

Then his next update is a list of 100 projects he's working on that isn't Winds.

I checked out of GoT long ago, I didn't even finish Dance.

Authors don't owe us anything but it doesn't mean they shouldn't be called out for their BS just like anyone else would be. Unfortunately a lot of people are morons and don't know how to be civil.

This post has been edited by champ: 29 May 2025 - 06:04 PM

[worry]

I appreciate his statement. I imagine like with all so-called fandoms, the nerd spaces that used to be hubs of enthusiasm, communication, and camaraderie for him have turned absolutely toxic. You can't be an artist or creator in these spaces and avoid the freaks anymore, particularly online, but the bigger the property the worse it gets everywhere. Regardless of his own flaws or bad decisions over the years, there is no Cause that justifies the Effect of constantly having to deal with Rick & Morty McDonald's Sauce guys yelling at you 24/7.

[flea]

Writing is incredibly difficult and he has reached a point in life where I would not want to continue if I were in his position. With his story told, and the millions he has earned from the series, I totally understand that he has little interest in or energy for the project.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

amphibian, on 29 May 2025 - 04:11 PM, said:

He's making these choices over and over to go do these specific things that are not writing ASOIAF instead of delegating.

The guy makes a ton of choices to not do ASOIAF and that's pretty much that. The rest is for everyone to find a place they can reside comfortably while they wait to see if he actually does finish a book or multiple books.No point in getting mad or telling him this - several hundred thousand people have already done that and it didn't lead to more books.

This nails it for me.

It's crossed my mind before if the incredibly negative reaction to the end of the TV series had an effect on his enthusiasm to finish, given I assume the book story will end in roughly the same place (though I would hope be much more fulfilling in the process of arriving there).

In reality though, similarly to what others have said above, Dance left me very cold and I have no enthusiasm to pick the series back up. I re-read when Dance came out and didn't enjoy the books after the first as much as I remember doing (couldn't stand Arya's chapters, for one) so I think I'm comfortable being fully out.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 30 May 2025 - 07:37 AM

[QuickTidal]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 30 May 2025 - 07:35 AM, said:

In reality though, similarly to what others have said above, Dance left me very cold and I have no enthusiasm to pick the series back up. I re-read when Dance came out and didn't enjoy the books after the first as much as I remember doing (couldn't stand Arya's chapters, for one) so I think I'm comfortable being fully out.

If I go back to the thread from 2011 where I was reading ADWD I believe my comment was something like the first 500 pages are an absolute slog, but the last 300 pages were decent. Basically, if I have to struggle THAT much to get through book 5 in a series, I don't think it's going to be worth all that much to continue buying them.

[Abyss]

I'm in the neutral space. If he actually finishes a book, i'll read it. If he never does, i'll be just fine thanks. I vaguely recall 'caring' back when i read the first three books, 2002ish, was blown away and wanted more. Three year wait for Feast was nbd, but it was meh. Just ok. When Dance came along i ignored it, got it half-price on a whim, found it even more 'meh'. I'd like to see how the story ends, but it's no automatic pre-order/avoid spoilers/fomo level book for me.

I do find GRRM's dance w the fans fairly entertaining, and the way the show(s) have played out just upped the fun.

[Tsundoku]

I checked out years ago. Probably after AFFC maybe the 3rd or 4th time he promised ADWD was just around the corner but no bueno.
It was then I realised he either didn't care about the series or the fans any more and lying was just his way of kicking the inevitable criticism down the road. If he just admitted after the first few swerves he was having real issues then it would have been a case of "Ah well, at least he's trying or being honest". But no. "Ooooh, I had this semi-awesome book going but deleted it all because it didn't set things up 150% the way I wanted". Bah, it's not your first rodeo mate, get back to basics. Have some fucking self-discipline. But you won't because you don't mean it.

It wasn't the delays I minded so much as the obvious absolute contempt he had for his audience. He would have finished it decades ago if he actually gave the slightest quantum of a fuck.
"GRRM doesn't owe you shit" all the other authors said (being completely self-serving setting up a precedent to over their own arses in the case of looming writer's block). Well actually - yes he fucking does. It's called a market good or service, a (social) contract and respect. He created - and fanned - the expectation after all.

Think of it this way: I promise you the sweetest night of sexytimes. The buildup is pretty darn good and ardour is rising. You have a bunch of pretty good orgasms fairly close together, getting better each time.
Then I ask to "take just a quick break", but "I'll be back soon and it will be the greatest shaboinking in the history of ever - believe me!" But no. The next one takes absolutely forever and the end result barely qualifies. And the one after that might as well not even have happened. Plus it's a week later. By this time you're already seeing other people and forgetting about that guy who promised much and initially had good game but in the end delivered little. When you do think of him occasionally it's with a mild irritation that bothers you for a moment if you let it, but quickly passes. And then his exes saying shit like "He didn't owe you anything." It's wasn't the under delivery, or completely missing payoff, it was the bullshit promises and being told somehow it was your fault and you were a bad person for having expectations. Or it was never the case to begin with.

I hope GRRM is at peace with it and has a good life sleeping on his metric shit-ton of money, but fuck his bullshit excuses and gaslighting.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 30 May 2025 - 05:19 PM

[Macros]

I was never heavily invested.
Gun to my head I can't tell you what books I've read, Arya has apprenticed as an assassin, the red wedding happened, Peter Dinklage shot his dad and little fingers threw a lady off a cliff.
Jon Snow is the master of sex and the man with no fingers' boss invaded the land north of the wall.
There was junior dragons and slave soldier.

And thus I finished with aGoT

Definitely didn't read the last book, The Dog died! Have no interest in reading any more, the mountain was kill by a snake!! And to be honest Ge9rge was Never, Ever finishing this series, we all knew this before DORNE AND THINGS, A RED LADY HAGING SHADOW BABIES! the last book came out.

What I will say, And I genuinely think this is a testament to the early (3?) books, I could probably cliff notes the lot reasonably accurately and I read them 15 or more years ago they were compelling and well written, got lost in the waffle at book 4 or wherever and I quit due to the interminal wait after a really shitty slog of whatever the last book I read was.

That said, George owes us shit, fuck, If I wrote a few books and had 120 mill in the bank, So long Mother Fuckers!!! Gone quicker than Jon Snows red shirted uncle

[amphibian]

Tsundoku, equating writing a book series with promising more sex after sex happened isn't quite the apt metaphor.

[Tsundoku]

amphibian, on 31 May 2025 - 12:12 AM, said:

Tsundoku, equating writing a book series with promising more sex after sex happened isn't quite the apt metaphor.

OK, best I could do at the time that I thought this audience would get ...



Feel free to have a crack.

[Tiste Simeon]

 Tsundoku, on 31 May 2025 - 01:58 AM, said:

 amphibian, on 31 May 2025 - 12:12 AM, said:

Tsundoku, equating writing a book series with promising more sex after sex happened isn't quite the apt metaphor.

OK, best I could do at the time that I thought this audience would get ...



Feel free to have a crack.

I can't have a crack you've not come back yet!