[Andorion]

I haven't acually read Narnia except the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. I am not really into inter-reality world transfer trope based fantasy and I found the premise that 10-14 year olds would lead and fight an epic battle a bit silly. Could you summarise what Lewis did in The Last Battle? I have pretty much ignored his writings

[worry]

Sure.

Spoiler

Susan goes to Hell when she dies because she got interested in men and makeup.

[Andorion]

worry, on 30 March 2015 - 05:15 AM, said:

Sure.

Spoiler

Susan goes to Hell when she dies because she got interested in men and makeup.

Oh damn, ok, so now the summary I read for the last Narnia movie makes more sense. He had a virginal hangup

This post has been edited by Andorion: 30 March 2015 - 05:21 AM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Andorion, on 30 March 2015 - 05:21 AM, said:

worry, on 30 March 2015 - 05:15 AM, said:

Sure.

Spoiler

Susan goes to Hell when she dies because she got interested in men and makeup.

Oh damn, ok, so now the summary I read for the last Narnia movie makes more sense. He had a virginal hangup

Oh my word! I only ever read the first three Narnia books so missed that. Ouch!

[worry]

I wish I could say it was more complicated than that (some apologists, quite unsuccessfully, have attempted to), but it's basically an offhanded "by the way..." in the end of the final book.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

amphibian, on 30 March 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Andorion, on 30 March 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

And as for the Tolkien comments, I am sick and tired of everybody taking on Tolkien. How seriously would we take it if Ferrari said now in 2015, "We can make a far better car than the Model T"? And as stated upthread, an attempt to at least stay somewhat familiar with the Tolkien Canon would have been nice.

Nah. Tolkien doesn't get a pass on his exclusionist legacy/clunky prose and occasional dead/not dead hijinks with the characters for writing his books in the early 20th century.

For more serious talk on Tolkien, see this nearly 3 year old thread: http://forum.malazan...ction-and-race/

One last note: I really miss Terez as a full time forumite.

Thank you for the link, that made interesting reading.

Dead/not dead - I can only think of Gandalf, who was an immortal spirit. It makes sense in Tolkien's canon, but the more I think about it I concede that doesn't necessarily change personal opinion on whether it makes good storytelling.

I don't think he should get a pass, as such, but at the same time as recognising the problematic elements (by our modern standards) , I do think the context of the time of writing can be taken into account too.

Some food for thought for me, although I still think Martin's an arse

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 30 March 2015 - 06:20 AM

[Ceda Cicero]

worry, on 30 March 2015 - 05:38 AM, said:

I wish I could say it was more complicated than that (some apologists, quite unsuccessfully, have attempted to), but it's basically an offhanded "by the way..." in the end of the final book.

Yeah, it's pretty horrific.

Come to think of it, Narnia might be the only series I can think of where the middle books (I'm talking publication order here, not the newfangled chronological/recommended reading order) by and large are better (IMO) than the early and late books. My favorite installments in the series (DAWN TREADER, SILVER CHAIR, HORSE AND HIS BOY...) are the ones that have the least to do with the Pevensie kids and the broader arc... but I guess there really isn't much of a "broader arc" in the first place and each installment stands on its own, so my characterization is way off.

All that said, holy shit, want to talk about poor adaptations--those Narnia moves are absolutely abysmal. I almost wept when I saw what they'd done to DAWN TREADER--that was one of my absolute favorite books as a kid and arguably one of the top 5 worst films I think I've seen.

[Maark Abbott]

amphibian, on 29 March 2015 - 07:39 PM, said:

And my last opinion: I think he should take an extra book to finish - especially after the introduction of Griff & Co.

This is the best idea since Griffball!

[End of Disc One]

Regarding Tolkien...wut. GRRM has said several times that he's a massive Tolkien fan. With his comments on Gandalf and the taxing system, he just said that if he were telling the story, he would do it differently. Not that there's a right or wrong way.

[Abyss]

Maark, on 30 March 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

amphibian, on 29 March 2015 - 07:39 PM, said:

And my last opinion: I think he should take an extra book to finish - especially after the introduction of Griff & Co.

This is the best idea since Griffball!

So seven more books instead of six?

[Geoffray]

New chapter boys and girl. And he's golden ^^:

http://www.georgerrm...inds-of-winter/

This post has been edited by Geoffray: 02 April 2015 - 03:43 PM

[QuickTidal]

Urg...Really George? A Sansa Chapter?

[worry]

Sansa rules. Not that I'm gonna read it.

[Ceda Cicero]

Apparently this chapter has been confirmed as the rumored Sansa chapter that would prove to be "quite controversial" and something of a gamechanger, at least as shipped by what's-his-face the Westeros admin guy who was in on THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE and apparently read this chapter some months ago. I guess that means we're playing VERY fast and loose with the definition of controversial these days, since...

Spoiler

...Pretty much the edgiest thing happening here is that Sansa flips her hair and flirts instead of fawns for the first time.

ALTHOUGH...

IIRC (and I may not), the DANCE chapter where Jon beheads Slynt (one of the best Jon chapters in ADwD, IMO) was posted as a sample chapter on GRRM's site for a long time before release, but in the sample chapter version, didn't it end before the actual beheading? I might be completely misremembering that, but if I'm not, I wonder if that was intentional or if events just got shuffled a bit between chapters in the final cut.

[Maark Abbott]

Oh christ. Sansa chapters make me want to press my face into an angle grinder.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Ceda Cicero, on 03 April 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

Apparently this chapter has been confirmed as the rumored Sansa chapter that would prove to be "quite controversial" and something of a gamechanger, at least as shipped by what's-his-face the Westeros admin guy who was in on THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE and apparently read this chapter some months ago. I guess that means we're playing VERY fast and loose with the definition of controversial these days, since...

Spoiler

...Pretty much the edgiest thing happening here is that Sansa flips her hair and flirts instead of fawns for the first time.

ALTHOUGH...

IIRC (and I may not), the DANCE chapter where Jon beheads Slynt (one of the best Jon chapters in ADwD, IMO) was posted as a sample chapter on GRRM's site for a long time before release, but in the sample chapter version, didn't it end before the actual beheading? I might be completely misremembering that, but if I'm not, I wonder if that was intentional or if events just got shuffled a bit between chapters in the final cut.

I take it the controversial chapter isn't the same as the controversial "hard to watch" event in the series coming up then?

Underwhelming controversy aside, it's a good chapter I think.

[Maark Abbott]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 03 April 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

Ceda Cicero, on 03 April 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

Apparently this chapter has been confirmed as the rumored Sansa chapter that would prove to be "quite controversial" and something of a gamechanger, at least as shipped by what's-his-face the Westeros admin guy who was in on THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE and apparently read this chapter some months ago. I guess that means we're playing VERY fast and loose with the definition of controversial these days, since...

Spoiler

...Pretty much the edgiest thing happening here is that Sansa flips her hair and flirts instead of fawns for the first time.

ALTHOUGH...

IIRC (and I may not), the DANCE chapter where Jon beheads Slynt (one of the best Jon chapters in ADwD, IMO) was posted as a sample chapter on GRRM's site for a long time before release, but in the sample chapter version, didn't it end before the actual beheading? I might be completely misremembering that, but if I'm not, I wonder if that was intentional or if events just got shuffled a bit between chapters in the final cut.

I take it the controversial chapter isn't the same as the controversial "hard to watch" event in the series coming up then?

Underwhelming controversy aside, it's a good chapter I think.

Remind me which bit is supposed to be hard to watch that's upcoming? Being a Mallie veteran, I do wonder if it'll actually be a toughie or not.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Maark, on 03 April 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 03 April 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

Ceda Cicero, on 03 April 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

Apparently this chapter has been confirmed as the rumored Sansa chapter that would prove to be "quite controversial" and something of a gamechanger, at least as shipped by what's-his-face the Westeros admin guy who was in on THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE and apparently read this chapter some months ago. I guess that means we're playing VERY fast and loose with the definition of controversial these days, since...

Spoiler

...Pretty much the edgiest thing happening here is that Sansa flips her hair and flirts instead of fawns for the first time.

ALTHOUGH...

IIRC (and I may not), the DANCE chapter where Jon beheads Slynt (one of the best Jon chapters in ADwD, IMO) was posted as a sample chapter on GRRM's site for a long time before release, but in the sample chapter version, didn't it end before the actual beheading? I might be completely misremembering that, but if I'm not, I wonder if that was intentional or if events just got shuffled a bit between chapters in the final cut.

I take it the controversial chapter isn't the same as the controversial "hard to watch" event in the series coming up then?

Underwhelming controversy aside, it's a good chapter I think.

Remind me which bit is supposed to be hard to watch that's upcoming? Being a Mallie veteran, I do wonder if it'll actually be a toughie or not.

Nothing specific, just Sophie Turner (actress playing Sansa) said there's a scene for her in the next series that's pretty controversial and even the crew had a hard time watcing it.

[Maark Abbott]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 03 April 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

Maark, on 03 April 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 03 April 2015 - 07:20 AM, said:

Ceda Cicero, on 03 April 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

Apparently this chapter has been confirmed as the rumored Sansa chapter that would prove to be "quite controversial" and something of a gamechanger, at least as shipped by what's-his-face the Westeros admin guy who was in on THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE and apparently read this chapter some months ago. I guess that means we're playing VERY fast and loose with the definition of controversial these days, since...

Spoiler

...Pretty much the edgiest thing happening here is that Sansa flips her hair and flirts instead of fawns for the first time.

ALTHOUGH...

IIRC (and I may not), the DANCE chapter where Jon beheads Slynt (one of the best Jon chapters in ADwD, IMO) was posted as a sample chapter on GRRM's site for a long time before release, but in the sample chapter version, didn't it end before the actual beheading? I might be completely misremembering that, but if I'm not, I wonder if that was intentional or if events just got shuffled a bit between chapters in the final cut.

I take it the controversial chapter isn't the same as the controversial "hard to watch" event in the series coming up then?

Underwhelming controversy aside, it's a good chapter I think.

Remind me which bit is supposed to be hard to watch that's upcoming? Being a Mallie veteran, I do wonder if it'll actually be a toughie or not.

Nothing specific, just Sophie Turner (actress playing Sansa) said there's a scene for her in the next series that's pretty controversial and even the crew had a hard time watcing it.

If Sansa does anything beyond pout and whine then I'll put ketchup on my hat and eat it. I very much enjoy ASOIAF and the GOT series, but any segment with Sansa in either is such a slog.

[QuickTidal]

Maark, on 03 April 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

If Sansa does anything beyond pout and whine then I'll put ketchup on my hat and eat it. I very much enjoy ASOIAF and the GOT series, but any segment with Sansa in either is such a slog.

That's me too. Goddamn Sansa chapters are just so MOR.