[tiam]

I think it Worryworts usual humour as the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle reboot will have the TMNT as aliens rather than changing in the sewer from some ooze.

If this isnt the case see the above picture for my reaction

[cerveza_fiesta]

got through Alien 3 and Resurrection over the weekend. All caught up and refreshed for Prometheus.

Alien 3 was way better than I remembered...I mean, for a bread n butter sci-fi/horror movie it had convincing(ish) characters, a half decent plot, a cool setting and that genuine tension all decent horror flicks share. Resurrection was way worse. Way, way worse than I remembered. The only parts of it I liked were when winona ryder's character (by the way, who the fuck casts winona ryder in a horror flick) got shot, and when hybrid got sucked into space so I didn't have to look at its ridiculous face anymore.

I think I melded the two in my memory because I'd only seen each once before this weekend, so it was nice to get the events of the two sorted out again and to have a solid reminder never ever to rewatch resurrection ever, ever again.
===============
On topic, mebbe this was all discussed upthread but I don't feel like reading all the way back through for details. Here's my call for the overall plot of Prometheus:

The plot tie-in between the "origins of man" mentioned in the trailer and the Alien species of Scott's Alien is a bit roundabout. He's mentioned already that the classic Alien isn't going to be in the movie, but Without a queen alien, how does the derelict ship end up with a colossal cargo hold full of facehugger eggs in stasis fields? I'm thinking the creators of the ship are also responsible for the genetic engineering of the Alien species and that it was a bioweapon prepared, but never launched at some long forgotten enemy. The existence of the space jockey would suggest they have sufficient bioengineering skill to craft living beings that are melded to machines, so it's not a stretch that they would create the alien species from scratch.

Problem is, that long forgotten enemy is actually earth. Earth was a distant colony of the progenitor species that seceded from the union of progenitor planets and declared war on the homeworld. This war dragged on for millenia until the homeworld finally came up with a game-ender. A perfect weapon that could wipe out the entire opposing side or at least hamper them sufficiently that they were no longer a threat. Kinda like the Krogon genophage from Mass Effect. It never launches due to some preemptive attack by earth forces...or massive ecological disaster, or whatever. Instead the ship and it's dangerous cargo remain dormant, awaiting a launch command that never comes....

....until prometheus shows up. The prometheus crew finds the launch tube for the progenitors' bioweapon ship. After activating the ship out of curiosity (or by accident), the bioweapon ship's crew (including spacejockey) come out of stasis and begin the launch sequence. Soon after the prometheus crew discovers that the target is earth. A bit later on they scrabble together sufficient clues to understand what the pods are for. Oh fuck...earth is toast!

With the launch mere minutes away, the race is on to halt the launch of the ship or at least destroy it in space. The Prometheus, having no weapon systems and being unable to outrun it, devises some hair-brained scheme to disable the weaponship's engines before it hits FTL causes it to crash-land on LV426.

Most of prometheus' crew dies in the attempt, but the heroine (I'm guessing charlize) barely survives. Her final act before succumbing to massive internal bleeding is to activate a warning beacon that will ensure vessels stay clear of the wreck in the future.

Cue opening sequence of Alien.

============

What you think?

[QuickTidal]

cerveza_fiesta, on 16 April 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

got through Alien 3 and Resurrection over the weekend. All caught up and refreshed for Prometheus.

Alien 3 was way better than I remembered...I mean, for a bread n butter sci-fi/horror movie it had convincing(ish) characters, a half decent plot, a cool setting and that genuine tension all decent horror flicks share. Resurrection was way worse. Way, way worse than I remembered. The only parts of it I liked were when winona ryder's character (by the way, who the fuck casts winona ryder in a horror flick) got shot, and when hybrid got sucked into space so I didn't have to look at its ridiculous face anymore.

I think I melded the two in my memory because I'd only seen each once before this weekend, so it was nice to get the events of the two sorted out again and to have a solid reminder never ever to rewatch resurrection ever, ever again.
===============
On topic, mebbe this was all discussed upthread but I don't feel like reading all the way back through for details. Here's my call for the overall plot of Prometheus:

The plot tie-in between the "origins of man" mentioned in the trailer and the Alien species of Scott's Alien is a bit roundabout. He's mentioned already that the classic Alien isn't going to be in the movie, but Without a queen alien, how does the derelict ship end up with a colossal cargo hold full of facehugger eggs in stasis fields? I'm thinking the creators of the ship are also responsible for the genetic engineering of the Alien species and that it was a bioweapon prepared, but never launched at some long forgotten enemy. The existence of the space jockey would suggest they have sufficient bioengineering skill to craft living beings that are melded to machines, so it's not a stretch that they would create the alien species from scratch.

Problem is, that long forgotten enemy is actually earth. Earth was a distant colony of the progenitor species that seceded from the union of progenitor planets and declared war on the homeworld. This war dragged on for millenia until the homeworld finally came up with a game-ender. A perfect weapon that could wipe out the entire opposing side or at least hamper them sufficiently that they were no longer a threat. Kinda like the Krogon genophage from Mass Effect. It never launches due to some preemptive attack by earth forces...or massive ecological disaster, or whatever. Instead the ship and it's dangerous cargo remain dormant, awaiting a launch command that never comes....

....until prometheus shows up. The prometheus crew finds the launch tube for the progenitors' bioweapon ship. After activating the ship out of curiosity (or by accident), the bioweapon ship's crew (including spacejockey) come out of stasis and begin the launch sequence. Soon after the prometheus crew discovers that the target is earth. A bit later on they scrabble together sufficient clues to understand what the pods are for. Oh fuck...earth is toast!

With the launch mere minutes away, the race is on to halt the launch of the ship or at least destroy it in space. The Prometheus, having no weapon systems and being unable to outrun it, devises some hair-brained scheme to disable the weaponship's engines before it hits FTL causes it to crash-land on LV426.

Most of prometheus' crew dies in the attempt, but the heroine (I'm guessing charlize) barely survives. Her final act before succumbing to massive internal bleeding is to activate a warning beacon that will ensure vessels stay clear of the wreck in the future.

Cue opening sequence of Alien.

============

What you think?

Not bad. But I think you are focusing too much time on ALIEN links...and I don't think the story will be tailored that way.

A couple of things. Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace) is meant as the heroine, so my guess is that if anyone survives then it will be her. Above and beyond that Theron's character, Vickers, is a Weyland employee....so unless Weyland-Yutani purposely sent the Nostromo nearby LV-426 knowing about the derelict ship and distress signal, then I doubt allowing an employee (and therefore The Company) knowledge of the craft ahead of time to send back (unless you aren't implying that she survives barely, not sure, your sentence contradicts itself is all). Methinks if the company knew about it, they'd have plumbed/mined it for use long before the Nostromo ends up in Zeta Reticulli responding to that distress beacon.

Second. I truly doubt that the end of this film will more than touch on ALIEN (like I mentioned upthread, perhaps a panning shot of the hold with the eggs and that's it), as Ridley said that if they make a sequel to PROMETHEUS, then it will distance even further from the ALIEN series. Ridley has been vague, but I truly believe that when he says this isn't really the ALIEN prequel (he has always termed it as having strands of ALIEN DNA)...he means that...in which case there will certainly be Easter eggs in this film, but no more than that. I actually like that, simply because I don't need an ALIEN prequel that ties directly into the first film...but a further exploration of the universe that ALIEN took place in, of The Company, of other more ancient creatures doing nefarious things with biological technology ect. and yeah even where the Alien's from the first film came from? Yes please! It's like having a gorgeous waterfall, everyone loves it...but somewhere way up the river is the source of that waterfall...and though the water is the same, the source will look nothing like the waterfall, but will be something altogether interesting in its own right.

Third. Does Prometheus have no weapons? Just because they aren't represented on the carapace of the ship doesn't mean they don't exist. Seems silly of Weyland to not have equipped it with weapons just because it's a mining/exploration vessel. I realize they aren't noted in the schematic, so you may be entirely right. Food for thought anyways.

[QuickTidal]

Fuck, all of this discussion has me dying to watch my ALIEN BluRay again...but I am trying to hold off till closer to June...I may have to watch it two more times before then. LOL

[cerveza_fiesta]

QuickTidal, on 16 April 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

cerveza_fiesta, on 16 April 2012 - 12:37 PM, said:

On topic, mebbe this was all discussed upthread but I don't feel like reading all the way back through for details. Here's my call for the overall plot of Prometheus:

The plot tie-in between the "origins of man" mentioned in the trailer and the Alien species of Scott's Alien is a bit roundabout. He's mentioned already that the classic Alien isn't going to be in the movie, but Without a queen alien, how does the derelict ship end up with a colossal cargo hold full of facehugger eggs in stasis fields? I'm thinking the creators of the ship are also responsible for the genetic engineering of the Alien species and that it was a bioweapon prepared, but never launched at some long forgotten enemy. The existence of the space jockey would suggest they have sufficient bioengineering skill to craft living beings that are melded to machines, so it's not a stretch that they would create the alien species from scratch.

Problem is, that long forgotten enemy is actually earth. Earth was a distant colony of the progenitor species that seceded from the union of progenitor planets and declared war on the homeworld. This war dragged on for millenia until the homeworld finally came up with a game-ender. A perfect weapon that could wipe out the entire opposing side or at least hamper them sufficiently that they were no longer a threat. Kinda like the Krogon genophage from Mass Effect. It never launches due to some preemptive attack by earth forces...or massive ecological disaster, or whatever. Instead the ship and it's dangerous cargo remain dormant, awaiting a launch command that never comes....

....until prometheus shows up. The prometheus crew finds the launch tube for the progenitors' bioweapon ship. After activating the ship out of curiosity (or by accident), the bioweapon ship's crew (including spacejockey) come out of stasis and begin the launch sequence. Soon after the prometheus crew discovers that the target is earth. A bit later on they scrabble together sufficient clues to understand what the pods are for. Oh fuck...earth is toast!

With the launch mere minutes away, the race is on to halt the launch of the ship or at least destroy it in space. The Prometheus, having no weapon systems and being unable to outrun it, devises some hair-brained scheme to disable the weaponship's engines before it hits FTL causes it to crash-land on LV426.

Most of prometheus' crew dies in the attempt, but the heroine (I'm guessing charlize) barely survives. Her final act before succumbing to massive internal bleeding is to activate a warning beacon that will ensure vessels stay clear of the wreck in the future.

Cue opening sequence of Alien.

Not bad. But I think you are focusing too much time on ALIEN links...and I don't think the story will be tailored that way.

A couple of things. Elizabeth Shaw (Noomi Rapace) is meant as the heroine, so my guess is that if anyone survives then it will be her. Above and beyond that Theron's character, Vickers, is a Weyland employee....so unless Weyland-Yutani purposely sent the Nostromo nearby LV-426 knowing about the derelict ship and distress signal, then I doubt allowing an employee (and therefore The Company) knowledge of the craft ahead of time to send back (unless you aren't implying that she survives barely, not sure, your sentence contradicts itself is all). Methinks if the company knew about it, they'd have plumbed/mined it for use long before the Nostromo ends up in Zeta Reticulli responding to that distress beacon.

Second. I truly doubt that the end of this film will more than touch on ALIEN (like I mentioned upthread, perhaps a panning shot of the hold with the eggs and that's it), as Ridley said that if they make a sequel to PROMETHEUS, then it will distance even further from the ALIEN series. Ridley has been vague, but I truly believe that when he says this isn't really the ALIEN prequel (he has always termed it as having strands of ALIEN DNA)...he means that...in which case there will certainly be Easter eggs in this film, but no more than that. I actually like that, simply because I don't need an ALIEN prequel that ties directly into the first film...but a further exploration of the universe that ALIEN took place in, of The Company, of other more ancient creatures doing nefarious things with biological technology ect. and yeah even where the Alien's from the first film came from? Yes please! It's like having a gorgeous waterfall, everyone loves it...but somewhere way up the river is the source of that waterfall...and though the water is the same, the source will look nothing like the waterfall, but will be something altogether interesting in its own right.

Third. Does Prometheus have no weapons? Just because they aren't represented on the carapace of the ship doesn't mean they don't exist. Seems silly of Weyland to not have equipped it with weapons just because it's a mining/exploration vessel. I realize they aren't noted in the schematic, so you may be entirely right. Food for thought anyways.

Ok RE the heroine. I haven't done that much research on it all anyway. In my "surviving" sentence, I meant to say she survives the crash only to be killed by something else (internal bleeding or exposure or whatever) not long after.

RE weapons, that was just something I threw in there. No reason to believe either way other than the lack of weapons on the ship diagram and the fact that in Alien, they had nothing but makeshift flamethrowers. At that point, weyland corp clearly isn't sending out armed non-military vessels, so I figured a non-military vessel dated even earlier in the Alien universe's history would have no good reason to carry weapons either.

I realized after reading some of your comments, my entire plot prediction could be stretched into the entire movie or as easily compressed into a small 1/2 hour section, leaving the rest of the movie open to exploration of completely unrelated material. It could even fit (in parts) with a movie that's mostly about finding the progenitor ship, with a small nod at the end to the Alien series.

Main thing I was trying to address was the deliberateness of the cargo hold full of facehugger eggs in Alien. There was a comment by the guy who initially got facehugged (in Alien) as he was exploring beneath the space jockey that the eggs seemed to be under some kind of mist barrier (possibly a stasis field in my mind). Also, infestations of non-alien ships centre about a queen as we saw in Aliens and in Resurrection, with eggs all concentrated in a patch. Not spread through a whole cargo hold in a thin layer with none of the typical veiny goo splattered ranomly on the walls. Also the running thread through the existing quadrilogy that the aliens are most likely intended as weaponized engineered beings rather than a naturally evolved species. You could easily have the plot say that the progenitors wiped out by their own creation and that the last of the adult aliens starved to death eons ago, but that wouldn't necessarily explain why the progenitors filled a ship with facehugger eggs.

I guess that also all assumes the ship is of progenitor origin and not some other third-party we as yet know nothing about. Either way, it doesn't seem to have the characteristics of an infestation. More like a cargo of eggs than anything else.

But then, with a reputedly secretive director like Scott, building a plot around what he chose to release in the trailer is probably dumb. He's likely chosen those images to make people think things like what I just wrote. Very possible the whole trailer is a decoy.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 16 April 2012 - 03:47 PM

[QuickTidal]

Ah okay, thanks for the clarification on the survivor bit...and yeah, I could definitely see that being the case.

Some interesting theories on the eggs (as found by John Hurt in ALIEN). I had always assumed that the stasis field (both light and mist IIRC) was put into place by someone who didn't want them getting out.

The Queen theory only works from ALIENS - ALIEN: RES, since the xenophobe that gestates inside Kane (Hurt) and eventually bursts out and kills the crew of the Nostromo is a soldier/drone...which makes me wonder how it could have sustained itself...and then begs the question how does the Queen get born if she's not born first? Now, that said the Alien does seem to cocoon two of the crew for some reason...so one would assume that would be for a Queen who is nonexistent at that point...unless it was just stockpiling food.

As far as Alien-as-bio-weapons, I've always been of the mind that it was Weyland-Yutani who intended their weaponization, and that wherever they came from they weren't intended that way. The more I see of PROMETHEUS, the more I wonder if the Space Jockey's created them for some other purpose (not as weapons at all), but that made them all the more lethal when they went astray.

There is that quick shot in the second trailer with someone squirming in the medical tank and there is a slightly facehugger-ish looking creature being held at bay over that squirming person's head by the apparatus...so who knows.

I think what makes the Alien universe so fascinating, this stuff about many worlds having these linked artifacts and the like to some ancient race...(kind of like the Inhibitors in Reynolds REVELATION SPACE series), the mysteries surrounding all this stuff makes it altogether compelling to ride along and search for answers...let alone sorting it all out in the end. Ridley chose well here methinks.

[cerveza_fiesta]

QuickTidal, on 16 April 2012 - 04:14 PM, said:

Ah okay, thanks for the clarification on the survivor bit...and yeah, I could definitely see that being the case.

Some interesting theories on the eggs (as found by John Hurt in ALIEN). I had always assumed that the stasis field (both light and mist IIRC) was put into place by someone who didn't want them getting out.

The Queen theory only works from ALIENS - ALIEN: RES, since the xenophobe that gestates inside Kane (Hurt) and eventually bursts out and kills the crew of the Nostromo is a soldier/drone...which makes me wonder how it could have sustained itself...and then begs the question how does the Queen get born if she's not born first? Now, that said the Alien does seem to cocoon two of the crew for some reason...so one would assume that would be for a Queen who is nonexistent at that point...unless it was just stockpiling food.

As far as Alien-as-bio-weapons, I've always been of the mind that it was Weyland-Yutani who intended their weaponization, and that wherever they came from they weren't intended that way. The more I see of PROMETHEUS, the more I wonder if the Space Jockey's created them for some other purpose (not as weapons at all), but that made them all the more lethal when they went astray.

There is that quick shot in the second trailer with someone squirming in the medical tank and there is a slightly facehugger-ish looking creature being held at bay over that squirming person's head by the apparatus...so who knows.

I think what makes the Alien universe so fascinating, this stuff about many worlds having these linked artifacts and the like to some ancient race...(kind of like the Inhibitors in Reynolds REVELATION SPACE series), the mysteries surrounding all this stuff makes it altogether compelling to ride along and search for answers...let alone sorting it all out in the end. Ridley chose well here methinks.

"didn't want them getting out" is what I was getting at. In my thinking the field was to prevent them getting out UNTIL deployment as a weapon. If you just plain didn't want them getting out, it would make much more sense to entomb or destroy them with a nuclear blast. I like the idea of the progenitors intending them as a weapon and getting wiped out by their own creation. It gives a great opportunity for that old catchphrase "if you don't learn from the past, you're doomed to repeat it" (or however the exact wording goes). Weyland Yutani commits the same error by trying to weaponize them eons later and gets bit just as hard.

True the soldier model in Alien wasn't a queen, but among colonial insects like some species of ants, the queen doesn't lay another special queen egg, it has more to do with the way the egg is groomed by the workers. Maybe the 2 cocooned nostromo crew members were an attempt by a soldier with limited reproductive capability to create an egglaying queen. Not sure on that but always a possibility.

In Aliens, the colonists directly access the derelict ship, so there could concievably be different types of eggs including specially groomed queen eggs. The medlab had several facehuggers in glass tubes when ripley & co. showed up, meaning the colonists were either attacked by multiple facehuggers during rescue operations or they harvested more facehuggers for study, any one of which was the special queen facehugger. For both explanations, or even a third (and grosser) sexual reproduction option, it wasn't just a single facehugger spawning the entire infestation in the basement of the atmospheric processor.

In Resurrection they apparently they can clone whatever the hell they want from a 200 year old blood sample, including a human alien hybrid that retains full memory of its former life. One of those clones, shown in an early scene, is a queen alien. But that plot is too retarded to have much bearing on the earlier and more canonical stuff of Alien 1-3

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 16 April 2012 - 04:44 PM

[McLovin]

I think Prometheus will show that the facehugger aliens are designed to periodically kill humans to prevent the space jockey aliens from killing humans.

Hey that logic worked for Mass Effect 3, right?

[QuickTidal]

Hey, I don't even consider ALIEN 3 canon since that film pissed on both the previous films story anyways...but that was the result of cobbling together a shooting script (while Fincher was shooting the film no less) from bits and pieces of something like 6 totally different story treatments.

while the idea of Space Jockey's creating the Aliens as a weapon and then turn on them seems good on paper, I feel it's truly too easy of a story point. Since that was what Weyland-Yutani kept doing down the line...I seriously doubt that Lindelof and Ridley would basically re-hash the whole "hand that feeds" storyline. Too hackneyed and been done to death in this series.

Nope, I don't buy that.

[Aptorian]

[Fist Gamet]

Hot damn but they make it seem so...real and believable, at though David was a real creation. THIS is how to market your movie.

[dktorode]

new trailer with glimpses of some ...creatures


http://www.youtube.c...d&v=1byZkbNB3Jw

[polishgenius]

I've suddenly got this massive foreboding feeling that this is going to go horribly wrong and end up being a crushing disappointment. Beyond a few small factors that niggle me (one being that the first creature shown in that trailer looks rubbish) there's no proper reason for me feeling so, and all round that's a perfectly reasonable trailer and all other promotional material has been excellent, and yet I'm really nervous now.

I hope I'm totally wrong. I am after all a nitpicky bastard and this might just be that impulse going into premature overdrive...

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 30 April 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

I hope I'm totally wrong. I am after all a nitpicky bastard and this might just be that impulse going into premature overdrive...

You are in fact, the king of all the nitpicking bastards.


Don't Panic.

[rhulad]

QuickTidal, on 30 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

polishgenius, on 30 April 2012 - 01:37 AM, said:

I hope I'm totally wrong. I am after all a nitpicky bastard and this might just be that impulse going into premature overdrive...

You are in fact, the king of all the nitpicking bastards.


Don't Panic.

Just don't forget your towel.

[polishgenius]

Don't worry, I'm a cool frood.

QuickTidal, on 30 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

You are in fact, the king of all the nitpicking bastards.

King of High House Pedantic?

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 30 April 2012 - 09:23 PM

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 30 April 2012 - 09:22 PM, said:

Don't worry, I'm a cool frood.

QuickTidal, on 30 April 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

You are in fact, the king of all the nitpicking bastards.

King of High House Pedantic?

Haha! Indeed sir.

[Abyss]

Am i the only one who thinks this poster...



...looks silly?

[dktorode]

Abyss, on 01 May 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

Am i the only one who thinks this poster...



...looks silly?

other than it not being actualy poster dimension wise. (or its cut off at the top)

no...doesnt look silly to me.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 01 May 2012 - 02:41 AM, said:

Am i the only one who thinks this poster...



...looks silly?

I think you are the only one. I LOVE the poster for it.