[Osseric]

Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon, Ruse, Thyrllan, Emurlahn.

This is the lynch train. Of these, we can obviously discount Rashan as scum, and Thyrllan. Spite and Meanas aren't really on my radar either because they are now AWOL and very low poster, respectively.

That leaves Mockra, Gamelon, Ruse and Emur. Emur voted in order to get us a lynch, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a scum pretending at soul-searching before hammering.

It wouldn't actually surprised me if the majority of scum stayed off this lynch train though. Of course I say that because the likes of Tennes and Anomandaris, who've come to my attention, are both off it.

I really need to get some sleep, but I think tomorrow I will take a look at Gamelon. I know he's posted quite a bit, but for the life of me I can't remember what he's said.

[Emurlahn]

I wasn't soul searching. If I can be around at the deadline, I'm not going to lay my vote down if I haven't made my own case. I like to give people a final chance to talk. We did, Thyr made good points, and that honestly made me want to lynch Ruse -slightly- more. But it couldn't happen, so I voted Thyr.

Jkin. I took a long walk around town to the tune of Dust in the Wind while contemplating who I should vote for.

[Ruse]

 Thyrllan, on 01 December 2011 - 02:54 AM, said:

 Gamelon, on 01 December 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

 Thyrllan, on 30 November 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:

 Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 08:58 PM, said:

 Anomandaris, on 30 November 2011 - 08:42 AM, said:

Well galain did start the game with a joke vote and out of the timing (votes) and the two players he is possibly following onto the train it might go either way. thyr and atrahal together and starting a train doesnt seem very much like killer behaviour if they had off thread comms its a fairly risky tactic to take. To have galain as symp and following them onto the train just borders on ridiculious.

I would guess if galain is symp it would be to only one of those two. I would be it 60/40 to atrahal rather than thyr though at the moment though, not sure why. There just seems to be more cohesion between the way atrahal and galain are playing.

Surely if you see cohesion in two players' games you'd expect them to have off-thread comms, rather than being a killer/symp combo? Short of telepathy, you're not going to see a master and symp able to work in harmony this early in the game. In fact, I notice that Rashan has made a similar point in the next post.

atst, it's actually pretty unlikely this game has any true "symps". While most of us know nothing about the sengoku period, the characters are neverthless drawn from historical facts and figures, and it wouldn't do to have someone CF with their name and as town only for the wikipedia page about how they secretly were in league with the Hojo be posted. And given that this is the first game, I don't think Shin will be straying too far from actual history in setup, but rather expecting us to diverge from history only through our own actions.

This post caught my eye the first time around and on re-reading it, it makes me really take notice. Why would anybody want us to think that there were no symps? Based on wikis & history? No, we're always looking for them. I'll admit I haven't played as many games as most of you, but so far in my experience, where there are killers, there are symps. I feel this comment only serves scum team by trying to make us look for less enemies.

Thyr was ready to quit, when he got some encouragement from Osseric & Omtose (I think it was) then he pulled out a case that I couldn't buy. The Ruse thing is thought-provoking, but for now, I must:

Vote Thyrllan

I should clarify a bit, I guess. I mean that there are no technical symps - ie no one will CF as town when they are really scum. But there are still liable to be lesser scum that will act sympish because they are not super-important (you know, the Gongsun Kang or Ma Dai equivalents of this game). Because there's no point to a town CF for a character we can verify is scum. So yeah there's been plenty of sympish behaviour and like most games I'm sure most of it is from innos, but I don't think it likely there are any technical symps. It just doesn't fit the theme/mechanics (you can't have role succession into later games of made-up characters).

I'm not trying to commit to any diabolical plan here, I just want town to be better prepared for this game and have an actual shot at winning.

I'm still not sure what Thyr was getting at here. I mean it looks like from the scenes that P-S has posted that succession within the game itself is likely, bit why would that exclude symps?

I agree that Rashan was an odd choice, from memory they had a couple of votes day 1, but I don't remember anyone particularly focussing on them, or Rash focussing anyone else either.

I've got to head to work, will be back on later.

[Tennes]

 Emurlahn, on 01 December 2011 - 03:17 AM, said:

Do you know what else sucks all the joy out of lynches? When people who aren't going to be around for the lynch don't bother to throw down a vote earlier in the day.

ANOMANDARIS

HP

TENNES

Sadness inside.

Shin, what is your stance on Spite's impending prolonged absence? A week seems excessive. Are there subs available?

oops.

not my fault i had interwebs issues at home yesterday.

[Tennes]

thought i would catch the end of the day...I see i missed it by quite some bit.

now i gots to work.

Ill check in periodically though

[Anomandaris]

Seems like I missed an awful lot going on. Very surprised people tried to build a case on the fact I said two and fro - given that the voting at the time was 3v3 so that was pretty much an accurate description of the proceedings at that time. If you deliberately look for the same choice of words its easy to make links between people.

The amount of people surprised by the cf's for example is in my view quite odd and i could build a case on signalling from that with about as much credibility as that ruse one had. Also are people trying to guess the night kill targets and thats why they cant believe who the killers are going for? Dislike when players self vote but it was for the best, if thyr had of been about today the game would have been held up with another day of debate between players looking for their lynch and it would have givent hem a free kill of rashan.

Looking through all the players and trying to ignore osserics boner for me its clear a few players are pushing the game the way they want it to go. its not always a scum tactic but as an inno tactic when you are trying to find players it makes it very hard for everyone else given that we do not know their allegiance. Most notable in this group are in particular order - tennes, osseric, galain and emurlahn. A few players arent on very much, myself and spite most notably. Then we have the middle group players who seem like they want to push things (hp, ruse and atrahal) and those willing the simply follow the herd (gamelon, meanas, omtose)


Anomandaris, -me

Atrahal, -possible killer with galain as symp but is almost passive in his play with the occassional push to keep things moving.

Emurlahn, - seems very level headed. fond of summaries

Galain, - very suspicious in my book. given thyrs innocence strong possibility of fake symping. there was a lot of discussion about galain symping thyr and he continued to do it even yesterday. he pretty much started the ruse train yesterday and he has had a few posts which were very contradictory.

 Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

Hmm, I'm usually a bit reluctant to post signalling cases, as usually they pan out to be, to make use of what seems to be becoming a common phrase, farts in the wind. But perhaps it has some relevance in the situation.

Here's Ruse's first post of substance:

/quote from ruse here (removed for tags as below)

I noticed this phrase here, which popped up a couple of posts later in a similar sort of post by Anomandaris:

/quote from me here

Made me think perhaps Anomandaris was trying to let Ruse know that he was her symp. Later on I had a look over Ruse...it was perhaps slightly kinder than it should have been. Ruse comes back and says:

 Ruse, on 30 November 2011 - 01:01 AM, said:

Oh piss, didn't see your post on me, Galain.

Thanks dude, now I look like a low poster who's seen their name and come when called.
<.<

Now, what if Ruse thinks I'm her symp because of the way I was mildly positive about her contribution? In that light, this post reads like an admonishment for letting their master look bad.

It's kind of tenuous, and as I said I normally don't try to make these kinds of cases because I don't think they hold a lot of water, but I thought it was worth putting out there since these two are being discussed.

 Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 11:02 PM, said:

Actually, you know what?

Vote Ruse

I still don't fully believe my own case, but then I'm not convinced by what's against Thyrllan either. Meh...should have tried harder to find something, I guess. The train analysis pointing to Ruse is probably the strongest piece of evidence out there, so I'll go with it.

Gamelon, - Not sure but theres something fishy. this post in particular made me curious given the self vote by thyr

 Gamelon, on 01 December 2011 - 03:15 AM, said:

I'm out, until tomorrow - I see no P-S lurking to resolve

FWIW - Thyr played well to the end, hope we chose correctly

Hood's Path, - all over the place in his play. not sure if they are inno or scum, but think they are too haphazard to be scum.

Meanas, - not much to go on

Mockra, - helpful and generally level headed. very down the middel and hasnt really made waves despite a sizeable post count

Omtose, - Made a very long post about the day 1 train and stated he didnt find me suspicious as he typed the post then changed that at the bottom. Dont like contradictions.

 Omtose, on 29 November 2011 - 06:23 PM, said:

Just want to get the train up so it's easily findable for reference. (More for me than anyone) . I started it where we were at 3 vs. 3

 Path-Shaper, on 29 November 2011 - 06:43 AM, said:

Ano makes a good point about HP here.

 Anomandaris, on 29 November 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

Good justifiacation for a vote here. Things make sense. Doesn't mean he isn't scum, but it seems too well thought out to be suspicious in my eyes.

 Tennes, on 29 November 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

Here is one of the posts that led me to believe Tia was scum. ( so much for my instincts.) he just seems to make the train on Kesso inevitable, and doesn't back up his vote.

 Tiamatha, on 29 November 2011 - 12:41 PM, said:

This vote is the most suspicious in my eyes. Wishy-washy with a smattering of "we need a lynch"

 Ruse, on 29 November 2011 - 12:56 PM, said:

Hammer vote. As stated before, we were down to deadline. hard to reead anything from this vote as inno or scum would have ample reason to hammer as we run up to deadline on day 1.

 Emurlahn, on 29 November 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

After all that, it strikes me as odd that the killers chose Tiam for the NK. ( I know I know.. WIFOM) Killers generally are looking for their symps early, they must have felt Tiam was a safe kill. I am curious as to why. I'll go give his posts another gander.

Also, after the swing, the Anno and Ruse votes look the most shady to my eyes. It definately swung to Kesso quickly. Hard to believe that it was all innos on the train after it was 3 vs. 3.

Osseric, - is pushing the game to his tune a bit with his summaries. Doesnt like me but waited a long time to put the vote on me. Used that as a justification for a ruse vote. Possibly scum, as he seems more than willing to swap votes for lynches he doesnt seem to have confidence in. Similar in play style to galain but without as many obvious contradictions.

Ruse, hasnt done very much, and given that i have been lumped in beside him somehow its hard to really have an unbiased opinion. would vote for him, because of the disappearing act he pulled and the lack of concern he showed at being lynched. Thats a very good tactic to avoid votes and he didnt need any reasoning to vote thyr when he had the whole self preservation angle. Worth a look simply because so many have suspicions about him.

Spite, -absent

Tennes - another player pushing the game. seems to have a fixation with hp and the day one case which is dragged up everytime tennes gets any pressure. Seems to be building on that rather than actively making new cases. Didnt really like some of his responses to votes against him, feels slippery.

vote galain

Its more likely in my mind that galain is a symp, but its a very valid killer tactic to cosy up to innos and fake symp them. If spite or meanas are scum, theres very little chance of catching them, but i think its a good chance that the scum is spread between the pushy and want to be pushy group.

[Atrahal]

 Osseric, on 01 December 2011 - 03:40 AM, said:

 Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 03:35 AM, said:

The servants knew better than to disturb their lord when he was writing. Yoshimura Yukisama wrote his characters with a searing intensity that resulted in beautiful characters that lept from their page. And that same intensity would be turned upon anyone foolish enough to intrude. Studious and upright, Yoshimura spent as much time immersed in Chinese classics and with his writing brush as he did wielding his spear. It was not unusual for him to spend an entire night with both of these tools, so it wasnt until almost mid-day when the servants decided to check upon their master. Sprawled across his writing table, with a mix of ink and blood marring his kimono and the tatami mats, Yoshimura Yukisama was very very dead. Now would likely begin a most terrible struggle of succession amongst his small army of sons.

Rashan (Tapper) is dead. He was Yoshimura Yukisama, Loyal to the Shogun

It is Day 3, 36 hours are left in the day.

13 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Spite, Tennes,

7 votes to lynch

No one has voted.

Interesting selection for an NK for scum - Rashan was getting a little heat today. But what do people think of PS' last line there - if we can read anything from the scenes, then I would say that Rashan was roled, and someone succeeds to that role? Or is it just flowery description?

I was wondering the same thing about D'rek's death scene. She was described as the son of Masamoto, so does that mean that she was in line to receive Masamoto's abilities should Masamoto pass, or does that mean D'rek was really important, and we just lost/passed-on another role.

Damn, I hope that we at least get to keep Rashan's role should he have had one.

[Atrahal]

 Anomandaris, on 29 November 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

well a lo of two and fro on day 1. Interesting that people say i was interacting with galain and rashan when someone voted for me and another voted for them and I hadnt nor did post since. Early cases are always hard to fathom, and day 1 when people havent really started make that more so.

The triple vote was very strange, people seem to forget that no matter if you are town or scum you should always try at least to look inno. Strange voting behaviour never looks like an inno tactic.

3 vote Thyrllan: Emurlahn, Mockra, Kessobahn

3 votes Kesso: Thryllan, Atrahal, Galain

1 vote Atrahal: Hood's Path

This voting also looks highly suspect given that three people are voting for kesso and both mockra and kesso come on to vote thyrllan while hp comes on and builds against atrahal with a case built on more than one player voting for another player within a certain time frame. Though i dont find thyrllan or kesso especially suspicious by their content the division of votes at what is generally a turning point phase of the day makes me think there is something in this.

vote kessobahn

The atrahal and thyrllan votes feel more like a way to counteract this train than an actual case built upon suspicious activity.

Anom, when you have the chance I would like some elaboration here. I was glancing through your posts, and you seem earnest and upfront with your posts. I know you already hashed over this quote with Osseric, but I was reading it again and what I don't understand is why you voted Kesso instead of Thyr. You state that you think it's possible Thyr and I are trying to derail the Thyr train, but you vote with us rather than for the train on Kesso.

Moreover, you seem to indicate that you found neither Kesso nor Thyr that suspicious, and yet at a crucial point in a couple of budding trains, you added your weight to one side despite your concerns over the lack of suspicious content. You really don't offer up a better candidate (which apparently would have been nice considering that both Thyr and Kesso ended up inno), but instead just choose one of the pre-made trains and go with it.

Now you have a really solid and thorough post with a lot of thoughts and summaries. Why did you wait this long to post such a careful analysis? Too much pressure on you currently?

[Anomandaris]

Really I dont have time to play and the post you quote above was about half way through day 1 when the voting pattern was for me the only real evidence available. Early during work is my only free time and yesterday was made worse by the public sector strike. Voting kesso was in my view the correct vote as he had 3 votes and thyr one when mockra kesso and hp launched what seemed to be a counter charge. Clearly kesso was inno and thyr too, so in response to that and the strange play it looks to me now that galain is the most suspicious. I didnt vote for you today as the whole vote for the symped not the symp is a bad tactic to repeatadly try when it seems to have failed twice.

As for the post above - it is only day 3. People have been accusing me of not being involved enough, but I am simply not able to play at other times and missed most of yesterday. Its very hard to make cases or impressions of everyone when the game is still in such an early phase. I also try to resond to whats happening when i am actually on and just touch on the major points people are bringing up in my absence, or of course answer any queries directed at me or about me. I didnt vote because I didnt realise I wouldnt be back on in time, but i would likely have voted for either you or thyrllan given the evidence I already mentioned and the cases put forward which i felt had merit about a symp following a master with the early day 1 vote as a form of signalling.

After yesterdays activity though, i definitely feel more strongly about galain than anyone else and so I am voting now.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 3, 28 hours and 35 minutes are left in the day.

13 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Spite, Tennes,

7 votes to lynch

1 vote Galain: Anomandaris

Players not voting: Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Ruse, Spite, Tennes

[Anomandaris]

missed out that you ask why i voted with you when i state that you derailed a vote - i said hp tried derailing by voting for you, not sure were i imply you did a derailment, if it reads that way its unintentiaonal.

[Emurlahn]

Just did an interesting reread. The people that stood out the most, or -actually- didn't stand out at all were Mockra and Tennes. They both have a few big posts, but they're mostly just a regurgitation of other people's information. So let me take a look. Mockra gave me a MUCH stronger scummy feeling, so I'll be looking at him first and Tennes later today.

Mockra:

NOTE: These are not all his posts. Just the ones I had comments on.

 Mockra, on 28 November 2011 - 04:45 PM, said:

Hello there. Seems like Spite decided to stir things up after the complaints of not enough activity. Quick summary so far? Yes please.

Samurai is both plural and singular (like "moose"); Meanas outed himself as the Shogun and then disappeared; Anomandaris mistook himself for Meanas; tea is a sensitive subject and worthy of inspiring votes; Rashan weirdly deflects from Anomandaris; Emur votes Osseric cause fuck Osseric; and Spite appears on thread and begs to be lynched but makes a half-decent point in the process.

Ah, day 1 comedy. So exciting!

As commented on at the time, this is a useless pointless summary. I'M HELPFUL GUYS!

 Mockra, on 28 November 2011 - 07:28 PM, said:

 Emurlahn, on 28 November 2011 - 07:17 PM, said:

Mockra, the Tea Party vote was a joke vote or an accusation of signaling based on the Tea Party in America that is anti-government currently. Rashan was saying that Galain is being anti-government (ie the good guys).

Really? Ok... I don't think I would have ever made that connection.

Of course you didn't make that connection. Because you wanted something useless and a joke to comment on so you didn't have to do any serious activity.

 Mockra, on 28 November 2011 - 07:55 PM, said:

 Emurlahn, on 28 November 2011 - 07:25 PM, said:

 Mockra, on 28 November 2011 - 07:16 PM, said:

Right, the Galain vote from Rashan does look like deflecting. Voting master over symp is definitely the best approach but I can't decide whether Rashan is symping Ano or you're symping Rashan. Spite if you are inno then why the hell would you triple-vote someone on day 1? I can't see how it does anything except cause confusion for town.

For now I'll leave my vote where it is. Rashan has some 'splaining to do.

Deflecting from what? Someone feeling the need to deflect from a day 1 single vote would be... not smart?

I like Rashan as a target, I suppose, but a deflection there seems unneeded.

Well, I guess taking the political joke into account it looks less like deflecting. But I still find the timing and target weird. So I'm not ready to dismiss it yet.

He is obsessed with a joke vote being deflecting. Almost as if he's saying "no look, my case is not useless! Look!"

 Mockra, on 29 November 2011 - 06:20 AM, said:

 Thyrllan, on 28 November 2011 - 08:26 PM, said:

<snip>


Wasabi christ! I've been here all of 2 seconds, it's day 1 and you now want "some actual comments" from me? Serious fukceroo business much? You're probably some lame-ass Uesugi lacky trying to act all serious cause you wish you had a real role

I don't like this at all. Asking for comments instead of deliberate nonsense is not unreasonable and this is exactly the kind of reaction that sets off alarm bells. His play has been consistent so far - which is to say, negligible - so for now I'm going to leave my vote here.

Remove vote

Vote Thyrllan


Rashan definitely overreacted to the tea party confusion, but at least he responded, unlike Thyrllan, who almost seems opposed to contribution.

Anyway, I'm out, I should be back right before deadline.

He said he'd be back right before deadline. Guess what he didn't do? I'm pretty sure he did this on day 2 as well.

 Mockra, on 29 November 2011 - 04:33 PM, said:

Back. I tried to be here before the lynch but couldn't make it happen. I'm a little bit surprised that some people decided to give Thyr a pass; I think even his recent responses, where he actually makes complete sentences, are too sarcastic and defensive. He acts like we shouldn't even be questioning his play...

 Thyrllan, on 29 November 2011 - 02:54 PM, said:

So instead I will catch up and address outlying accusations and banality to which I doth take thee offenceth: (that's how they talk in old Japan right?)

 Tiamatha, on 29 November 2011 - 11:42 AM, said:

Thyrllan slipped up and hasn't helped town by staying silent.

I was absent. That happens sometimes. Laying it on a bit thick mr?

 Ruse, on 29 November 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

I don't get Thyr's weird statement. At first I thought I'd missed the explanation for it, but reading back Thyr's just sort of ignoring it. Although I'm not completely convinced it's really a good reason for a lynch. But pehaps it's too much to hope that someone would get 'syllables' and 'characters' confused as well as not be able to count particularly well.

No, I meant syllables. I don't know japanese characters at all, I have no idea how many would be in a name. And no it wasn't a PM to path-shaper, I was just making a 1st-post joke the same as yous guys' first posts about tea ceremonies and bowing and shit. And maybe some of you didn't get 14 syllable char names, but {a} there's such a thing as exaggeration and {b} this being feudal shogunate japan there are lots of long names. Maybe my role is Matsudaira Kurandonosuke Motoyasu? (No, it isn't, he's not born yet)

 Atrahal, on 29 November 2011 - 10:49 AM, said:

I looked over Thyr again, and I think that is a worthy train as well. I agreed he doesn't say much and seems to spend most of his time perpetuating or exhibiting confusion, a great way to look like a blundering inno. Also, the fact that not only did he not remove his vote from Kesso, but that he didn't even respond to Kesso's retort is suspicious. Frankly, I still find them both (Kesso and Thyr) suspicious, so I'll hold on Kesso for now.

Oh noes, I'm confused and blundering on day 1! Please Atrahal, elaborate on how you have such a complete knowledge of the entire game less than 24 hours into the first game of the series. Please, share with us this fountain of knowledge you posess...

This isn't strictly true - the complaint isn't that Thyr wasn't around but that his posts were entirely devoid of content. He obviously had time to make his "joke post" and call people idiots, but he didn't contribute to the discussion at all - and he didn't use his time to say, "Hey, I'm busy or something, I'll be around later". Using "I was absent" as an excuse glosses over the real issue. I also think the name explanation is a bit forced. Anyway, the fact that he says he's going to "address accusations" but really just blows everyone off is suspicious to me.

I need to read up on the Kesso lynch. HP's case in particular, I think, as it seemed to influence a lot of people. I should be around for awhile and then gone later on today.

Another massive post that really just says what everyone else had been saying, that Thyr wasn't being particularly responsive.

[Emurlahn]

 Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 11:34 PM, said:

Argh. Long day at work here. Glad to see discussion happening, though.

Ruse hasn't appeared since I said this last night -

 Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 07:48 AM, said:

 Ruse, on 30 November 2011 - 04:06 AM, said:

I'm all aloooooone. I think I have the worst timezone ever.

Ruse, instead of whining, maybe you should use your time to give your thoughts again? Except this time don't make a post right after saying, "Oops, got my facts wrong, guess that was all bullshit..." You're pretty much back where you were before Galain and whoever called you out, since you blatantly dismissed everything you said. So...try again?

I found his "Here's three or four sentences worth of thoughts - oh wait, it's all meaningless because I misread the thread" pretty weird, and since he didn't come back and even say anything, it's definitely suspicious. He's deliberately avoiding giving opinions on thread, and barely participating otherwise. The "to/fro" connection is interesting too.

Thyrllan has been my top suspect since the latter half of day 1, and I don't think that's changed. He's definitely participated a lot more since then but it bothers me that he won't come out and explain why he was being so evasive early on. It's just strange. Maybe that's unfair but my gut tells me something is up here.

Vote Thyrllan

I'm going to be gone for a bit but should be able to return before timeout, although maybe only for a short while, so I wanted to get my vote down just in case. The other players I suspect are Ruse, HP, and maybe Ano...I need to reread the case on Ano at some point, though.

He says he SHOULD be able to get back, again. I'm pretty certain he didn't. That seems like scum who sees that things are going the way they want (two inno lynches) and didn't bother to show back up.

 Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 11:47 PM, said:

 Osseric, on 30 November 2011 - 08:23 AM, said:

 Mockra, on 30 November 2011 - 06:09 AM, said:

Is it me or are there a bunch of long quote blocks with no commentary after them on this page? It's such a tease.

 Hood, on 30 November 2011 - 02:03 AM, said:

as you can see there was a almost a hour between there cases more then enough time for them to conlude and then mess up as to why the would go after the same person well that would have to be a mess up wouldn't it no right minded scum would both go after the same target unless they messed up
tennes the fact that people thought that I was kesso's symp speaks not to my symp hood but to their own lack of ability
mockra the only reason that scum would make the same case on a person is that they messed up it has happened before there for it is possible.
galain what else could you possibly say that you were in fact scum and that atrahal was your partner and that you had thought that you were suppose to make the case while atrahal thought that he was suppose to make the case you two still look scummy and much to chummy for my tastes
still getting caught up

I don't see how that lines up with your original story on this whole thing:

 Hood, on 29 November 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

So after going over the thread. Abit not with a fine tooth comb. But still I did read most everything. To my eyes this two posts are the most suspicious all game. When I see something like two people who just happen to make cases on the same person and post them a little while after each other. It seems to me that it smacks of people who can talk off thread agreeing that they need to go after ________ then both of them going after that same person at the same time. Of course they will say that Kesso was scummy enough to trip both of their radar at the same time. But none the less posting cases like this trips my radar.

Emphasis mine. So you're saying that from this first post you actually meant that they were two killers who got confused about who was supposed to make the case on Kesso? I guess you could interpret it that way but it reads to me like you suggested they were coordinating their attacks on purpose, not by mistake. And yeah, that is a ridiculous position because scum would probably not do that, but it just sounds to me like you made a shitty case and are trying to salvage it by changing the angle.

I'm looking hard, but I can't see the devastating contradiction that you can here, Mockra. Can you enlighten me? What I see is HP first saying that he feels that when two people make cases on the same person in quick succession, they're colluding off-thread and agreed to both attack that person....and then he says that they made a mistake by both making cases at the same time so their collusion was easier to spot by the likes of HP.

So where's the horrible contradiction? Both posts say that Atrahal and Galain agreed to attack Kessobahn - the later post just says they made a mistake in both attacking, with cases, at nearabouts the same time, when they should have come at Kesso from different angles. Have I missed something, because at the moment it seems to me that you're working quite hard to make something out of not much?

I think Tennes covered this but I found it hard to read his posting style. Basically, the original argument HP made was that the cases being posted so close together was indication of collusion off-thread - that is, direct agreement between Atrahal and Galain to team up and make cases on Kesso. This is supported primarily by how close together the cases were in time. Later, when someone brings up the fact that scum probably aren't so dumb that they'd make cases on the same person an hour apart, HP changes his story to say that Atrahal and Galain are suspicious because they must have agreed off thread but then messed up the execution on thread, and only one person should have posted the case.

I find this contradictory because HP is going about making his case in reverse order. A good case is based on connections that lead to a conclusion that implicates a player or players. HP has started with his conclusion of the guilty players and when one connection doesn't seem strong enough to support his conclusions, he makes up a different and opposite connection to support it instead. This is bogus because he's pushing his case pretty hard and ignoring almost everything else, but he had to change his story in order to keep the case potentially valid. For those reasons he's on my list and the way he's making his case is totally forced instead of natural.

Also, I just noticed something you said - "and then he says that they made a mistake by both making cases at the same time so their collusion was easier to spot by the likes of HP". I wonder if we're misunderstanding each other a bit? I'm saying that HP's case is that Atrahal and Galain actually DID NOT mean to post those cases - they only meant to have one person do it but they each thought it was themselves instead of the other person. That's what HP has said. It sounds to me like your interpretation of "mistake" is that they made the cases like they agreed to off-thread, but that plan turned out to be a mistake because it was too obvious.

This large post SEEMS helpful, but it is completely rehashing what multiple other people have said.

 Mockra, on 01 December 2011 - 01:28 AM, said:

 Galain, on 01 December 2011 - 01:25 AM, said:

 Gamelon, on 01 December 2011 - 01:05 AM, said:

I'm going to have in leave in about 5 minutes, I hope those who haven't been around will show up to vote

Similarly, I'm not here for much longer. I know Emurlahn's around...anyone else here?

I'll be here off and on till timeout.

He did show up about an hour before lynch, actually. He didn't post after this, despite discussion to lynch Ruse, and he would have been the last needed vote in that chain of events.

If people agree with my case, and Mockra turns out to be scum, we really need to look at Ruse, as Mockra seems to be sneakily (is that a word?) protecting him. Along with that, Hood's Path would be a pretty damn obvious choice for a symp, due to that last second vote that mini-freak out about minor problems and general weird posting and what seems like poor aggresive case making.

Conclusion: He posts fairly frequently, but doesn't do much to actually contribute. He DOES question other cases constantly, but doesn't really make any of his own. He's pretty damn middle of the road, and until my reread had mostly slipped by my attention by being so damn unremarkable. He has recieved little to no heat for being middle of the road, so here it goes.

Vote Mockra

If Mockra ends up scum, we have quite a few damn good connections to look at.

[Osseric]

 Anomandaris, on 01 December 2011 - 11:07 AM, said:

missed out that you ask why i voted with you when i state that you derailed a vote - i said hp tried derailing by voting for you, not sure were i imply you did a derailment, if it reads that way its unintentiaonal.

When I did my little mini-case on you, Ano, I initially read it the same way as Atrahal had (and was about to do a WTF ANO! post about it), but then I realised what you had actually meant. So just saying that Atrahal is not the only one to have been confused by what you were referring to

 Emurlahn, on 01 December 2011 - 02:49 PM, said:

Conclusion: He posts fairly frequently, but doesn't do much to actually contribute. He DOES question other cases constantly, but doesn't really make any of his own. He's pretty damn middle of the road, and until my reread had mostly slipped by my attention by being so damn unremarkable. He has recieved little to no heat for being middle of the road, so here it goes.

Vote Mockra

If Mockra ends up scum, we have quite a few damn good connections to look at.

I like this suspicion of Mockra. Not just because I voted for him day 1, but because he has been the type to make long posts with a lot of quotes but not much actual content - like Emur says, perhaps a scum seeing things are going their way and being able to coast. However, one thing I have to disagree on is the HP link you make, Emur. Mockra was the first one to accuse HP of contradicting himself (and then Tennes jumped on it too).

[Meanas]

 Omtose, on 30 November 2011 - 06:14 PM, said:

Hello- I am here and all caught up. Right now I agree with Osseric ( maybe Galain?) I think we should be looking at people on the end of the Kesso train. Meaning Ruse and Anno. They both came on and gave reasonable justification for their votes, but someone...can't remember who, came on and actually defended Ruse's vote. That struck me as odd. I'll try to go back and find it. So for now

remove vote

vote ruse.

i'll be here off and on all day, but i am at work and don't have uch time to post. I *should* be around for lynch time

You hadn't even voted yet today, according to P-S. That's kind of suspicious for you to forget.

[Meanas]

 Emurlahn, on 30 November 2011 - 06:15 PM, said:

 Meanas, on 30 November 2011 - 08:26 AM, said:

 Path-Shaper, on 28 November 2011 - 11:22 PM, said:

It is Day 1, 16 hours and 40 minutes are left in the day.

17 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Kessobahn, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan, Tiamatha

9 votes to lynch, 9 to go to night.

1 vote Galain: Rashan
1 vote Tennes: Tiamatha
2 votes Rashan: Spite, Mockra
2 votes Thyrllan: Galain, Emurlahn
1 vote Mockra: Osseric
1 vote Kesso: Thryllan



17 Players still alive,

Players not voting
Anomandaris, Atrahal, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Kessobahn, Meanas, Omtose, Ruse, Tennes

Galain swapped votes to Kesso right after Atrahal showed up and voted Kesso. Mockra came in and voted Thyr, along with Kesso, making it 3-all. Galain is suspicious for jumping. The vote for Thyr could have been signalling and he was eager to drop it when a better choice showed up. It could also be just flat out fake-symping from Galain.

Could be either/or, but when in doubt, vote for the symped, not the symp.

Vote Thyrllan

I was just looking at Meanas' posts to see if I actually believed he forgot he was playing. I expected to find suspicious behavior, but he actually did a good job of summing up for himself, kinda.

This post, especially. I must have missed or skimmed this the first time. I think this is a good point, possibly. I still see thyrllan as an interesting lynch, so.

Remove Vote

Vote Thyrllan

Aren't you lucky that all of my posts were in a nice big block for you to read, then? ^.^. I like to summarize and reply as I read, occasionally middle-mouse-clicking the quote button (to open them in a new tab) on posts that I think may be worth a second look later.

[Meanas]

 Osseric, on 30 November 2011 - 07:18 PM, said:

Omtose, I see what you're saying about Galain possibly justifying Ruse's posting looking suspicious. Hmmm. We have lots to go on here - possibly too much.

- HP pushing a link between Galain and Atrahal.

- Lots of questions over Thyrllan, some of them linked to his first post, others linked to how the voting swung away from him to Kessobahn.

- Some suspicions over Tennes for being...what? Helpful? It's kind of hard to point out exactly what here, but more than one person has stated a suspicion now.

- Lynch voting examination has turned out the name Ruse most often, now been connected to Galain by Omtose.

- I have a boner for Anomandaris, but no one else has commented.

I think Thyrllan is the one we're likely to get most people to agree on. At the moment, there is no real stand out case.

In response to your last comment... that is pretty ballsy to basically say, "Hey, I think we can lynch Thyrllan." Why don't you add a big neon sign that says "HINT HINT" next to it?

[Meanas]

 Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 09:42 PM, said:

Hmm, I'm usually a bit reluctant to post signalling cases, as usually they pan out to be, to make use of what seems to be becoming a common phrase, farts in the wind. But perhaps it has some relevance in the situation.

Here's Ruse's first post of substance:

 Ruse, on 29 November 2011 - 07:38 AM, said:

Hmm, well there seems to be a fair bit going on here. Much too-ing and fro-ing to be found. At least the avatars are less confusing!

There seems to be a lot of anxiety about low posting because of the last game. I'm not really sure if Day 1 is really a good indicator of how the rest will go. But putting pressure on low posters early is probably the only way to avoid any repeats, so as such, I'm all for it.

In spite of Spite's trigger happiness (hehe), I reckon they're inno, seems a bit OTT for scum.

I don't get Thyr's weird statement. At first I thought I'd missed the explanation for it, but reading back Thyr's just sort of ignoring it. Although I'm not completely convinced it's really a good reason for a lynch. But pehaps it's too much to hope that someone would get 'syllables' and 'characters' confused as well as not be able to count particularly well.

Kesso, that's probably just first day voting for you. And also conviniently the only other train that's building up aside from your own. Which I'm going to have to go and take another look at, I think, because I don't really get it.

So, as such I'm on the fence for the next couple of hours, hopefully there will be a bit more posting closer to the end of day.

Also, teletubbies? Really? Glad Tiam took one for the team there...

I noticed this phrase here, which popped up a couple of posts later in a similar sort of post by Anomandaris:

 Anomandaris, on 29 November 2011 - 08:22 AM, said:

well a lo of two and fro on day 1. Interesting that people say i was interacting with galain and rashan when someone voted for me and another voted for them and I hadnt nor did post since. Early cases are always hard to fathom, and day 1 when people havent really started make that more so.

The triple vote was very strange, people seem to forget that no matter if you are town or scum you should always try at least to look inno. Strange voting behaviour never looks like an inno tactic.

3 vote Thyrllan: Emurlahn, Mockra, Kessobahn

3 votes Kesso: Thryllan, Atrahal, Galain

1 vote Atrahal: Hood's Path

This voting also looks highly suspect given that three people are voting for kesso and both mockra and kesso come on to vote thyrllan while hp comes on and builds against atrahal with a case built on more than one player voting for another player within a certain time frame. Though i dont find thyrllan or kesso especially suspicious by their content the division of votes at what is generally a turning point phase of the day makes me think there is something in this.

vote kessobahn

The atrahal and thyrllan votes feel more like a way to counteract this train than an actual case built upon suspicious activity.

Made me think perhaps Anomandaris was trying to let Ruse know that he was her symp. Later on I had a look over Ruse...it was perhaps slightly kinder than it should have been. Ruse comes back and says:

 Ruse, on 30 November 2011 - 01:01 AM, said:

Oh piss, didn't see your post on me, Galain.

Thanks dude, now I look like a low poster who's seen their name and come when called.
<.<

Now, what if Ruse thinks I'm her symp because of the way I was mildly positive about her contribution? In that light, this post reads like an admonishment for letting their master look bad.




It's kind of tenuous, and as I said I normally don't try to make these kinds of cases because I don't think they hold a lot of water, but I thought it was worth putting out there since these two are being discussed.

Interesting catch.

[Meanas]

 Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 03:30 AM, said:

It is Day 2, A lynch has occurred.

15 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan

8 votes to lynch

6 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon, Ruse, Thyrllan, Emurlahn.
4 votes Ruse: Omtose, Galain, Osseric, Atrahal





Players not voting: Anomandaris, Hood's Path, Tennes


Masamoto banged his fist on the serving tray, rattling the fine china and spilling the small vase containing a bright spring flower. This lovely jaunt into the country provinces was turning chaotic. He had awoken that morning to a lovely day, and had intended to spend the afternoon hawking in the mountains. And then word of this...tragedy? mistake? good news? had reached him. The worst part of course was he wasnt entirely certain what to believe. Had Chachamaru really been plotting against him? Somehow that seemed unlikely because Chachamaru`s professed hatred of the Hojo seemed real enough. Of course, Masamoto wasnt unaware of his son`s disdain for his limited role in the family. But treachery? No, no, it seemed a little too far-fetched. Still, his agents claimed to have overheard some strange comments and took it upon themselves to act on his behest. Knowing Chachamaru, when confronted he had likely been arrogant and unforthcoming which had most likely incensed the lordlings even further. No matter the facts of the matter, the simple truth was his son was dead, and that death was likely the first promise of more chaos to come.

Thryllan (D`rek) has been lynched. She was Chachamaru, Loyal to the Shogunate

Can't help but feel like the 'son' was a bad person to lynch off. Alas, D'rek.

[Meanas]

I liked these three posts. Basically point, counterpoint, and counterpoint. Just sayin.

 Thyrllan, on 30 November 2011 - 08:08 PM, said:

Probably not a lot I can do anymore at this point, but some of you are giving scum waaay too little credit. Blatantly voting away from me and then symping me when there's already tons of suspicion on me? If I'm already under suspicion, a symp would be smart enough not to blatantly symp me more, because people are easily going to catch it. Catching symping at work is fine for identifying scum that are not under suspicion, but you should never use it to *confirm* existing on-thread suspicions.

When I CF inno, take a good hard look at the folks who have been claiming that obvious symping on my already-suspected self was enough for them to vote me half way through the day, namely Emur and Meanas.

 Emurlahn, on 30 November 2011 - 08:22 PM, said:

I voted you with 10 hours left, I think. Really though, you seem like the best lynch. Would you like to present a decent alternative? I've looked at the other cases and found your suspicious behavior the most interesting, so that's where my vote goes. Nothing wrong with showing solidarity.

 Omtose, on 30 November 2011 - 08:42 PM, said:

So instead of Crying, put out another good suspect. Personally, I don't think you are a good lynch. It's basically an extension of a day 1 lynch and feels to preordained. You only have 4 votes and a lot of people are around. I am all ears on another lynch target. As it stands, I have my vote where I feel the scummiest person is.