[Osseric]

What do you mean? There's 4 not voted out of 15, that's not a great many players.

[Thyrllan]

I'm here, need hammer/switch/anything?

[Thyrllan]

Path-Shaper, on 01 December 2011 - 01:55 AM, said:

It is Day 2, 1 hours and 24 minute are left.

15 players alive: Anomandaris, Atrahal, Emurlahn, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Osseric, Rashan, Ruse, Spite, Tennes, Thryllan

8 votes to lynch

6 votes Thyrllan: Spite, Meanas, Rashan, Mockra, Gamelon, Ruse
5 votes Ruse: Omtose, Thyrllan, Galain, Osseric, Atrahal





Players not voting: Anomandaris, Emurlahn, Hood's Path, Tennes

That was at 7:55, now it's 8:44, so 36 minutes left in the day.

[Ruse]

Osseric, on 01 December 2011 - 02:42 AM, said:

What do you mean? There's 4 not voted out of 15, that's not a great many players.

I was just wondering, it seemed like rather a lot. Meh

[Emurlahn]

Coming to the last minute to decide between two people has been common the last few games. My vote is free. That means we need someone to show up, or someone must switch. Osseric is willing to switch to Thyr, that would be a vote.

Unless someone from Thyr switches to Ruse, or two out of the three Players not voting besides me show up and vote Ruse, it looks like Thyr is toast.

[Gamelon]

I'll be here the next few minutes

[Thyrllan]

Gamelon, on 01 December 2011 - 12:11 AM, said:

Thyrllan, on 30 November 2011 - 09:05 PM, said:

Galain, on 30 November 2011 - 08:58 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on 30 November 2011 - 08:42 AM, said:

Well galain did start the game with a joke vote and out of the timing (votes) and the two players he is possibly following onto the train it might go either way. thyr and atrahal together and starting a train doesnt seem very much like killer behaviour if they had off thread comms its a fairly risky tactic to take. To have galain as symp and following them onto the train just borders on ridiculious.

I would guess if galain is symp it would be to only one of those two. I would be it 60/40 to atrahal rather than thyr though at the moment though, not sure why. There just seems to be more cohesion between the way atrahal and galain are playing.

Surely if you see cohesion in two players' games you'd expect them to have off-thread comms, rather than being a killer/symp combo? Short of telepathy, you're not going to see a master and symp able to work in harmony this early in the game. In fact, I notice that Rashan has made a similar point in the next post.

atst, it's actually pretty unlikely this game has any true "symps". While most of us know nothing about the sengoku period, the characters are neverthless drawn from historical facts and figures, and it wouldn't do to have someone CF with their name and as town only for the wikipedia page about how they secretly were in league with the Hojo be posted. And given that this is the first game, I don't think Shin will be straying too far from actual history in setup, but rather expecting us to diverge from history only through our own actions.

This post caught my eye the first time around and on re-reading it, it makes me really take notice. Why would anybody want us to think that there were no symps? Based on wikis & history? No, we're always looking for them. I'll admit I haven't played as many games as most of you, but so far in my experience, where there are killers, there are symps. I feel this comment only serves scum team by trying to make us look for less enemies.

Thyr was ready to quit, when he got some encouragement from Osseric & Omtose (I think it was) then he pulled out a case that I couldn't buy. The Ruse thing is thought-provoking, but for now, I must:

Vote Thyrllan

I should clarify a bit, I guess. I mean that there are no technical symps - ie no one will CF as town when they are really scum. But there are still liable to be lesser scum that will act sympish because they are not super-important (you know, the Gongsun Kang or Ma Dai equivalents of this game). Because there's no point to a town CF for a character we can verify is scum. So yeah there's been plenty of sympish behaviour and like most games I'm sure most of it is from innos, but I don't think it likely there are any technical symps. It just doesn't fit the theme/mechanics (you can't have role succession into later games of made-up characters).

I'm not trying to commit to any diabolical plan here, I just want town to be better prepared for this game and have an actual shot at winning.

[Osseric]

Gamelon, are you willing to switch to Ruse, or are you keeping your vote on Thyrllan?

[Osseric]

Although even if Gamelon switches and Emur votes Ruse, we're still one short of that one. Looks like it will be Thyrllan unless HP/Tennes/whoever show up sharpish.

[Thyrllan]

20 min left. I don't think anyone else is going to show. I'll just go ahead and end the wifom then, it's better than no lynch. good luck guys

remove vote
vote Thyrllan

[Gamelon]

Osseric, on 01 December 2011 - 02:57 AM, said:

Gamelon, are you willing to switch to Ruse, or are you keeping your vote on Thyrllan?

I would be willing to switch, I guess - Ruse is my second choice

Thyr's explanation helps some, but I still find it somewhat misleading

[Emurlahn]

Quote

This is a town vs. killer(s) game. Town is the Ashikaga and their vassals. Scum are the Hojo clan attempting to gain power and influence. This game (and the entire Warring States series) will feature the succession mechanic. This is not a new mechanic to mafia, but will be used liberally and with differing results based on what is/has taken place. People without roles initially stand the chance to gain roles based on how the game progresses. Even if you start the game as RI, you may not end it as RI. Sometimes it will be obvious from your role PM that you are likely in a line of succession. Sometimes it will fall on you as if out of the blue.
Storyline: It is possible for RI’s to rise as the series progresses from game to game. Since this game will ‘alter history’ the names that are provided in RI roles, if neither killed nor lynched, will possibly make appearances in future games with greater influence accordingly.

That's from the OP. I can't imagine a game with killer(s) that has no symps. The succession mechanic is interesting, though. Maybe there are, as Thyrllan said, lower ranking scum that don't have any powers and are acting sympish. But could succession be for both town and scum? If Hojo bites it, does one of his sympish friends get his powers? We know it works for town, as the OP points out.

[Osseric]

Thyrllan, on 01 December 2011 - 03:02 AM, said:

20 min left. I don't think anyone else is going to show. I'll just go ahead and end the wifom then, it's better than no lynch. good luck guys

remove vote
vote Thyrllan

Man self-votes annoy me. Sucks all the fun out of waiting to see if you got the lynch right.

[Emurlahn]

Interesting choice.

I will ask one final time, everyone okay with me hammering Thyr?

[Gamelon]

x-post, what?

the dreaded self-vote

noble or tricky?

[Emurlahn]

It doesn't matter, really. Unless two people switch off of Thyr, we can't get Ruse Unless Ruse self votes as well

[Osseric]

Go for it Emur, grab the "glory" of an inno death.



Edit: Added "ironical" element.

This post has been edited by Osseric: 01 December 2011 - 03:09 AM

[Emurlahn]

Vote Thyrllan

We won't know for sure until he's dead

[Thyrllan]

Emurlahn, on 01 December 2011 - 03:05 AM, said:

Quote

This is a town vs. killer(s) game. Town is the Ashikaga and their vassals. Scum are the Hojo clan attempting to gain power and influence. This game (and the entire Warring States series) will feature the succession mechanic. This is not a new mechanic to mafia, but will be used liberally and with differing results based on what is/has taken place. People without roles initially stand the chance to gain roles based on how the game progresses. Even if you start the game as RI, you may not end it as RI. Sometimes it will be obvious from your role PM that you are likely in a line of succession. Sometimes it will fall on you as if out of the blue.
Storyline: It is possible for RI's to rise as the series progresses from game to game. Since this game will 'alter history' the names that are provided in RI roles, if neither killed nor lynched, will possibly make appearances in future games with greater influence accordingly.

That's from the OP. I can't imagine a game with killer(s) that has no symps. The succession mechanic is interesting, though. Maybe there are, as Thyrllan said, lower ranking scum that don't have any powers and are acting sympish. But could succession be for both town and scum? If Hojo bites it, does one of his sympish friends get his powers? We know it works for town, as the OP points out.

I don't think it's just faction succession, I think it's role continuation. If you live through this, your role will be back in the next game (or at least in later games). You can't have a made-up role that continues through all the games, and a non-made-up character wouldn't work as a symp because of the afore-mentioned CF/wikipedia dilemma.

[Osseric]

Emurlahn, on 01 December 2011 - 03:09 AM, said:

Vote Thyrllan

We won't know for sure until he's dead

True, but self-votes really do suck all the joy out of lynches