[Jokn]

... tonight and I liked it a lot.

I'm not gonna go into any specifics, just some random thoughts for now.
Also I'm not a native english speaker so please bear with me.

It's not one of the best books of the series.

One reason is because it feels like a transitional book.
Changes had a huge cliffhanger, not just because of Harry's fate, but also because of the sudden "disappearence" of the red council the fate of the whole world.
Changes changed the whole world and context of Harry and the Dresden Files.
And Ghost Story shows what and how much has changed.

It's kinda like all the books up to Changes are one season, with the war with the red council being the major plotline. Changes is the seasons finale with the cliffhanger and Ghost Story is the first episode of the new season. It transitions Harry (and the reader) into this new world.

I don't want to make the book sound bad, it's really not! I almost threw the book against the wall because I wanted it to continue. It just felt really different than the other books before. Maybe I just need a reread to fully appreciate it.

What I really liked, were the flashback scenes and some of the scenes where he is talking to himself. And the twist, which I should have guessed, but isn't that always the way with good twists?

Sorry for the rambling and the strange comparison.

I'm gonna reread a few scenes and dialogues later and maybe add a few things then.
I'm also curious what everybody else thought of the book.

[Dinivan]

Exactly the same.

It definetely has that transition feeling. At it felt more subdued, quiter than other books from the series, and more of a setup for later books - in a way the 'evil mastermind' in this book

Spoiler

corpsetaker

felt a bit added for me, more to give this book some action, than something absolutely necessary.

And I fear that

Spoiler

Mouse is going to be guarding maggie for the next books and we see almost nothing of him. He became to powerful, me thinks

To be honest, I expected a bit more of an old school 'who-dunnit' than it actually was. Still great book, fantastic series, and the next one has to come as soonest as however possible.

[Jokn]

Dinivan, on 17 July 2011 - 05:14 PM, said:

Exactly the same.

It definetely has that transition feeling. At it felt more subdued, quiter than other books from the series, and more of a setup for later books - in a way the 'evil mastermind' in this book

Spoiler

corpsetaker

felt a bit added for me, more to give this book some action, than something absolutely necessary.

And I fear that

Spoiler

Mouse is going to be guarding maggie for the next books and we see almost nothing of him. He became to powerful, me thinks

To be honest, I expected a bit more of an old school 'who-dunnit' than it actually was. Still great book, fantastic series, and the next one has to come as soonest as however possible.

I think that

Spoiler

the reasoning behind corpsetaker is, that you need a bad-guy-ghost and with the corpsetaker you get a student of kemmler, who returned from the dead. The corpsetaker storyline was the main one so i don't think it was "added". In the fight between Molly and him/her Harry found what he was looking for the whole time.

I liked the different whodunnit, and it wasn't just different for differents sake, it was really well done.

[Dinivan]

yeah, agree, kinda

Spoiler

I felt, that he just needed Molly so hard under pressure, to let Harry find out what really happened back then. For this, he needed some enemy. Corpsetaker made the most sense from all the past enemies, I concede that. Just wish he would have shown more of the fomor, the corpsetaker issue felt - to me, that is, purely subjective - a bit like a filler.

And - also completly imho - I felt that this was hardly a 'who dunnit' at all. Harry hardly spends effort or time on actually finding his killer (I felt), he is reacting to what happens around (abduction stuff)

While all of this sounds like a criticism of the book, well in a way it is, but I still liked the book, very much. I will probably like it even more on the reread I plan to do next week or so, when I'll pick up more details and hints. There is sure a lot I have missed, and I do have some questions, would like to see if I can find the answer on the next read.

[Chance]

My take on Ghost Story is that it is a strange one for a Dresden novel not in a truly badway but it felt more like an interlude then a full novel regardless of the length. While the novel I would have found more interesting is the one the epilogue begins and what it hints at.

Somehow the novel felt redundant.

I still read it in one go and found it greatly enjoyable however more on the level of the early dresden books rather then the best ones.

/Chance

This post has been edited by Chance: 21 July 2011 - 05:34 PM

[Paran]

Done with Ghost Story. Felt, similar to Changes, like an intermediary novel upon which the whole series will turn.

Spoiler

It's a growing up novel for Harry, a novel that allows him to reflect on literally the entire actions of his life. Expect and more in control Harry from here on out who doesn't just shoot from the hip. Also, his resources will be upgraded from here on out - see upgrade of HQ to castle/fortress, relationship with Baron Marcone. Norse myth trainers, organised network with the other tertiary magic users as a source of information gathering. Only loss might be Bob, which was not addressed in the book, especially since Bob now has access to the internet, which might make him very powerful (getting to Archive-lite level).

Other things of note:
Added to his band of helpers with Fitz and his "baker street irregulars".
Molls is apparently supermodel super-hot.
He Who Walks Behind flashback added a kink into the pre-existing notion of events.. did he really die at the end?
Mort and the spirit world looks like it'll be a regular addition to the story from here on out, as will Butters as an unmagical magic assistant.
Mouse will be in the background for a while.
Meeting Mr Sunshine was neat. Seeing Jack Murphy and Carmichael ditto.

Overall, like Changes it was a good book but not up with the faves.

[amphibian]

I finished it.

It's a fantastic book. I'd rate it as one of the very best in the series in terms of writing and character development. I actually cried at one point. Powerfully affecting at times.

Spoiler

Although the book could be seen as transitory in nature, I really do think that this was a crucial step between Dresden from Changes and the Dresden that has to stay alive and subtly fuck shit up in the Faerie Courts. He's now much less "Hulk Smash", much more aware of how many truly staggeringly powerful entities are around him and that he's still very, very ignorant of what goes on around him.

As for the tears in my eyes moment, it was when Uriel revealed that Maggie's at the Carpenters' house. It fits so perfectly with the story and leaves her completely safe, as well as allowing Michael and Charity to pay Dresden back for Molly's apprenticeship. Mouse was glorious.

I am really starting to dig the combat scenes. They were inventive in terms of magic and set-up as well as the physical stuff being right in a way that may not be obvious to those who haven't fought before. Due to Boz being finished with a modified rear naked choke, I suspect that Butcher has some grappling experience and that is fuckin' awesome. The Normandy scene was sheer over the top goofy fun. The waffenwolves must be Faerie that Bob hired or co-opted into service and then dressed up in SS clothing because Kemmler was in on the Third Reich.

The He Who Walks Behind scene was an eye opener in terms of realizing that Du Morne was likely driven by either Kemmler or by He Who Walks Behind to hurry up something or to develop something big. Bob and Evil Bob still have a big role to play in this. The Kemmler connection makes the Corpsetaker stuff jive well for me and I had zero problems with the Grey Ghost being her. He That Walks Behind's physical form was destroyed by Dresden, but with Butcher scattering hints all series long, we know that it's still alive and dangerous. Thomas will probably figure big in the resolution of that, thanks to his side career.

The twist was masterfully done. It shows that Dresden truly knew that he was crossing boundaries and had to pay the price before he lost control and started hurting those around him. When he woke at the end, he was finally mentally ready to see the subtleties, aware that people mostly could take care of themselves and that he wouldn't hurt them by leaving. The Lea and Eternal Silence stuff was excellent. Due to my recent re-reads of a few of the books, I realize just how strongly Butcher has tied this into the previous books and built upon them in a very logical way to reach the next step: the Winter Court. Dresden can absolutely take off and go there for however long, because he's already made his good-byes with all the Chicago peeps. Now it's time for Mab, Titania, the Erlking, Marcone and whoever else Butcher introduces.

Those of you that will criticize the book for keeping Dresden's upgrades (probably Apt as the foremost of them) may be overlooking that he's now part of several very dangerous situations - the Faerie Court, the Fallen and the archangels' games, the Black Council and He That Walks Behind.

A couple of questions: It has to be Lasciel who whispered in Dresden's ear, right? Why is Dresden so important that Mr. Sunshine is willing to be the ghost of Christmas Present for him? I'm not quite sure how polyamory or an open relationship breaks the love spell upon Justine and Thomas?

This post has been edited by amphibian: 27 July 2011 - 07:09 PM

[amphibian]

Also, the Pink Floyd reference had me laughing so hard.

This may be Butcher's most reference heavy book. There's the obvious ones, but he works in a few that'll sneak by those who aren't familiar with the works he's referring to.

[QuickTidal]

I finished it last night and I agree with EVERYTHING Amph said in his summation...

Spoiler

and I cried at the exact same scene funnily enough. It was just overwhelming as he was saying goodbye and knowing that the Carpenters would be looking after Maggie and his love for his dog...man that just hit me right in the heartstrings. The tears ran down my face and I didn't even know it. Manly tears, but you know.

I had no issues with Corpsetaker showing back up, as with the Kemmler connection it utterly made sense and what a perfect enemy to have to deal with in the ghost form. It was well played and the action was amazing.

Oh man, Mort. I NEVER liked Mort in previous books, but here he is really shown to grow and become this stalwart breakwall for things to smash against. Unmovable. Now I REALLY like him. Consider me a huge Mort fan now, and I have a feeling he'll be joining the Justice League now.

The twist. Oh wow, Abyss and I (elsethread) were sure we had it pegged that Daniel was the shooter, because Kincaid was too easy a guess. I was blown the fuck away, yeah Kincaid was too easy cause he did it, on Harry's orders and Molly's help...and if you read the book again it is littered with hints towards that end every time he talks about Molly's powers with the mind and how subtle they can be. I never guessed, not even for a second before the scene happened revealing it. The phone call to Kincaid was the icing on the cake. That Butcher had the forethought to connect CHANGES and GHOST STORY on this level is amazing, Steven Moffat-like even. I did NOT see that coming man and what a way to solve the mystery. It turns out Harry Killed Harry. Fuck. LOL

The Lea and Harry at the grave scene was really well done. I like Lea more and more, and I am enjoying getting essential bits and pieces of how Harry eventually went to her for help when he was young.

The Mab + Demonreach scene was another that I didn't see coming, as I truly thought that after ALL he went through Harry would escape Winter-Knight-dom...but of course Butcher likes to put Harry through his paces and show him to be wrong. That whole scene with the back and forth with Mab about how he was going to do shit his way was exceptionally done.

I also don't quite understand the whole Justine + other chicky is able to = Justine + Thomas with no burning pain. Nice to have finally seen Thomas though.

Marcone's in Italy?

Molly. Can I just say that as one of my VERY fave characters, I am SO glad Molly didn't die? I was SO glad..and worried for a while that she might.

Butters too.

I think my favourite thing, and one that shows that Butcher has grown as a writer/storyteller is the whole everyone survived thing. Like The Series 1 DOCTOR WHO episodes THE EMPTY CHILD & THE DOCTOR DANCES, the idea that every once in a long while...no one dies. No one dies today. Harry is no stranger to loss and having his plans go awry, but it's really nice to see that for every once in a while in this series...no one dies, and not only that but no one is more traumatized than they were....and not only that but if anything a number of them are going to come out of this book for the better. That's a really nice thing. To say that yeah, sometimes...it works. Sometimes saving the world works.

A great book, and like Amph said I think it's one of Butcher's most accomplished, and one of my favourites.

This post has been edited by King Kazma: 29 July 2011 - 12:34 PM

[QuickTidal]

Full review now up on the site.

Spoilers only for CHANGES really.

http://icebergink.bl...sden-files.html

[amphibian]

Thanks, Kazma.

Several days later, I'm still feeling wholeheartedly that this was a stellar book. I now have zero problems with Butcher taking as long as he wants with the next book because I know for sure he's going to give us a truly excellent book. I have no reservations in my trust in him as an author and would probably even like to meet him someday to geek out on martial arts and whatnot.

Also... anyone notice that he's cut off his long hair? The jacket photo has him looking like an everyday normal guy now.

[champ]

Just finished the book and absolutely loved it...

Could go on and on about scenes and quotes that rocked but one that that come to mind...

Spoiler

Harry talking to Uriel...

Quote

"Look, Uri, I don't want to say..."
..."Do not attempt to familiarize my name. The part you left off happens to be rather important to who and what I am. Do you Understand?"

Made me think of Lasciel and just how significant the last part of their names - "iel" - could be... for who and what they are... connected? or I may be grasping at straws!

This post has been edited by champ: 30 July 2011 - 12:47 PM

[wolf_2099]

amphibian, on 29 July 2011 - 09:53 PM, said:

Thanks, Kazma.

Several days later, I'm still feeling wholeheartedly that this was a stellar book. I now have zero problems with Butcher taking as long as he wants with the next book because I know for sure he's going to give us a truly excellent book. I have no reservations in my trust in him as an author and would probably even like to meet him someday to geek out on martial arts and whatnot.

Also... anyone notice that he's cut off his long hair? The jacket photo has him looking like an everyday normal guy now.

Saw him at NYCC last October, I didn't even recognize him with the short hair.


I enjoyed the side stories to this book.
Dresden story I thought was terrible, that fact he was dead didn't really seem to have much of an impact on this book at all. The writing felt lazy.

Now, everyone else's story I thought was great, pretty well thought out and leaves me excited for the next book. I just think it would have gone a bit better if Dresden had been a supporting character in this one, and it followed Murphy or something. Weakest one I can remember in recent history.


The only thing that concerns me, is I felt that the ending to book 12 wasn't great writing, and I felt Dresden story wasn't either this time, and most other authors I read, who write ongoings, all tend to go downhill hard around between books 10-12. I'm hoping this is not the case for Dresden.

[Morgoth]

The title of this thread would imply there's no need to wrap everything in spoiler tags I think.

champ, on 30 July 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

Just finished the book and absolutely loved it...

Could go on and on about scenes and quotes that rocked but one that that come to mind...

Spoiler

Harry talking to Uriel...

Quote

"Look, Uri, I don't want to say..."
..."Do not attempt to familiarize my name. The part you left off happens to be rather important to who and what I am. Do you Understand?"

Made me think of Lasciel and just how significant the last part of their names - "iel" - could be... for who and what they are... connected? or I may be grasping at straws!

Not an absolute rule, but more or less every angel mentioned in the Bible or the Koran have names that end with "iel" or close phonetical variants. One could speculate that it represents the name of their race or something similar in the Dresden world. I doubt the iel signifies some other connection between Uriel and Lasciel.

I quite enjoyed the book, though there were the occasional repetition that I found annoying. Still though, an interesting and well done change of structure and quite the elegant set up for a completely new direction. Harry wouldn't just have packed up and left all his friends, not to mention his daughter. This way, however, it makes perfect sense for him to leave them all behind.

As for He Who Walks Behind, it has always been my impression that the Outsiders were the Dresden-verse version of Cthulhu and his gang of lovecraftian (hehe) horrors. As such, it is hardly surprising that they are more than just pawns. Considering the deep connections between the great old ones and the sea (think R'Lyeh, the city beneath the sea in which Cthulhu is trapped, not to mention Innsmouth, the village of froglike Cthulhu worshippers) it's not too hard to theorize as to the identity of the Fomor, driven to the sea by the Sidhe.

This post has been edited by Morgoth: 01 August 2011 - 04:29 AM

[Dinivan]

I took the -el or -iel part always to be one of the hebrew words that mean God, as Uriel for example means "light of God", or Gabriel means "the power of God" and Michael "Who is like God?" asf.

Insofar the piece -iel would be of much more importance to Uriel - who still serves God - than to Lasciel, who doesn't. Allthough the cutting to Lash may indeed have some significance, and could have furthered Lash's seperation from the still angelic whole entity Lasciel.

[polishgenius]

An odd book that. In plot terms, like Chance said, it is an interlude; very little of the wider plot gets advanced, and not that many new things get added either, though there are some interesting tidbits. On the other hand, in character terms it's as important as Changes was in plot terms. And not just with Harry; we get crucial new insights and developments on Murph, Molly, and Mort in particular, and Harry being out of the picture for six months allowed Butcher to radically change the status quo and then introduce us to it via him.

Basically, I get now why Changes ended on a cliffhanger; this almost isn't a separate book, it's a companion. That one shoved the plot along far further than any single book in the series so far; Ghost Story then helped set the pieces into place.


Thoughts and questions on specific points:

I see no reason why the whispering Fallen has to be Lasciel (I think her and Lash need to be differentiated, if Lash still exists in any form. And I doubt the whisperer can be Lash; she's a purely internal presence and the whisperer seemed external). He's met plenty of others, after all.

I never suspected anyone other than Kincaid as the killer, but clever to make him actually be on Harry's orders. And cruel of Butcher to make Harry's plan, guided by dark forces though it was, to end up completely ineffectual; though he did through him the bone of the free will thing.

Why does the name Fitz seem familiar? Am I just confusing him with Fix? And his description definitely seems to be significant; Harry suspects he's Native American- Injun Joe's offspring/descendant, perhaps? But his eyes don't match Joe's and neither do his other features; has anyone else we've met so far been described as having almost golden eyes etc?

It was fun having Dresden's inability to act meaning he had to see the world from the point of view of those helping him. Major case in point; Baldy would have been a nothing to Dresden, but to everyone else he's a serious problem.

I wonder what 'the parasite' that worked with Mab and Demonreach is, and if it'll be of wider significance later on.

And I also wonder who the first ghost he meets in the graveyard is. I suspect she'll be back too.

And I love how awesome Marcone is despite not being in it at all. I suspect the only reason he's in Italy is because if he'd been in Chicago, everything would have been sorted out within about ten seconds. And yet even he's so scared of Molly that he'll give up territory just for the potential of advice from Murphy. Molly is awesome now. Much scarier than Harry really.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 02 August 2011 - 12:49 AM

[amphibian]

polishgenius, on 02 August 2011 - 12:41 AM, said:

Why does the name Fitz seem familiar? Am I just confusing him with Fix? And his description definitely seems to be significant; Harry suspects he's Native American- Injun Joe's offspring/descendant, perhaps? But his eyes don't match Joe's and neither do his other features; has anyone else we've met so far been described as having almost golden eyes etc?

Tera West, the wolf in human form from Fool Moon who hung with the loup garou Harley MacFinn, comes to mind.

Quote

And I love how awesome Marcone is despite not being in it at all. I suspect the only reason he's in Italy is because if he'd been in Chicago, everything would have been sorted out within about ten seconds.

Given Marcone's connections to Turin, it is somewhat possible he's actually there. My suspicion is that he's actually in his territory in the Nevernever, consolidating his operations as a baron of the Unseelie.

[Use Of Weapons]

It was my impression that the Fallen whisperer simply had to be Lasciel, because: a) she knows Harry best of them all, from precisely that internal perpective; my impression was that it wasn't an external whisper, but rather an addition to an internal monologue (though I've not re-read Changes to be sure of that); c) it seems to tally very closely with what we've learned of her MO -- gradual, imperceptible corruption.

[Cause]

DemonReach is becoming more and more interesting. Who and what is it exactly? Why does it need a custodian, he seems more powerful than Harry.

What did they bad guys gain? They knew taking away Harry's free will would allow Heaven to intervene. I doubt heaven drops the ball often if ever when given free power to act. So did they just need six months without him or were they gambling that Harry would stumblee even with Heavens help or is it that without Mab's and DemonReach's interference Heaven could not have given him his full life back?

The bad guys are the Black Council obviously!?!

Anyone else upset that we missed out on seeing Michael or Thomas in a serious way? What about Ebenezar? Where was my main man Toot. He better be all up in Cold Days!

Cold Days better be all up soon!

Does Thomas feeding on Justine again really mean he is going to be okay? Seems dodge and also out of character for harry to be accepting of it. Also seems to me that Justine breaking their love connection so Thomas can feed on her is a pretty selfless act of love. Seems to me like it should not work. Lastly now that Justine is sane and no longer brimming over with emotion is it as safe to feed on her as it once was?

I dont think the fallen whisperer is Lasciel! Remeber Nicodemus opposes the black council as do I imagine his click of the fallen. Its his wifes half that work with the BC. Or wait do I maybe remeber that Lasciel did sorta like the other side best?

When will the damn swords be past on! Im half waiting for Sanya to peg and leave his sword to Harry

When did Mort become such a bad-ass! Excellent

Fomor! I like them, a lot. Their power makes me wonder though, Red Court or no Red Court why have they never made a move before. I love how the Servitors are entirely competent but unlike with the other courts this competency does not seem to include disloyalty, ambition and betrayal. I imagine the Fomor will be in play for a while. Wonder what they are doing with all those Tier 4 talents? Creating Franken-Talent? Feeding on it? I also like how they are supposedly a collection of many exiled races.

I need to find 'Even Hand', why was it not included with small favour! I despair.

[Abyss]

Agreeing with all the upthread priase. Loved it. Rock solid dresdencrack....

amphibian, on 27 July 2011 - 04:19 PM, said:

...Although the book could be seen as transitory in nature, I really do think that this was a crucial step between Dresden from Changes and the Dresden that has to stay alive and subtly fuck shit up in the Faerie Courts. He's now much less "Hulk Smash", much more aware of how many truly staggeringly powerful entities are around him and that he's still very, very ignorant of what goes on around him.

Yes yes yes and a key development for the character.

Quote

...Mouse was glorious.

Barely in the book and he was one of its best parts.

Quote

I am really starting to dig the combat scenes. They were inventive in terms of magic and set-up ...

Totally. Harry v Corpsetaker insubstantially blasting each other in solid rock was AWESOME.

Quote

...built upon them in a very logical way to reach the next step: the Winter Court. Dresden can absolutely take off and go there for however long, because he's already made his good-byes with all the Chicago peeps. Now it's time for Mab, Titania, the Erlking, Marcone and whoever else Butcher introduces.
...

Totally. As much as i love the supporting cast (please Jim - give Justice League Chicago a one-off book... puh-leasssssse) i'd like to see Butcher play with some new toys.

Quote

A couple of questions: It has to be Lasciel who whispered in Dresden's ear, right?

I want to say yes but it's almost too obvious. Then again, so was Kincaid as the shooter....

amphibian, on 27 July 2011 - 07:07 PM, said:

Also, the Pink Floyd reference had me laughing so hard.
...

I'm so glad you reminded me of that. It was possibly the best line in the book.

After "BOO!".

champ, on 30 July 2011 - 12:46 PM, said:

...

Quote

"Look, Uri, I don't want to say..."
..."Do not attempt to familiarize my name. The part you left off happens to be rather important to who and what I am. Do you Understand?"

...

A great moment. Said a lot about both characters.

polishgenius, on 02 August 2011 - 12:41 AM, said:

...I get now why Changes ended on a cliffhanger; this almost isn't a separate book, it's a companion. That one shoved the plot along far further than any single book in the series so far; Ghost Story then helped set the pieces into place.

Agreed. CHANGES set Harry up as a serious powerhouse. GHOST STORY tempered him.

Quote

I wonder what 'the parasite' that worked with Mab and Demonreach is, and if it'll be of wider significance later on.

i TOO wonder about that. Fair bet we'll find out...

Quote

And I also wonder who the first ghost he meets in the graveyard is. I suspect she'll be back too.

Inez? I'm not quite sure ... she may have been a bit of Chicago shout-out.

Quote

And I love how awesome Marcone is despite not being in it at all. I suspect the only reason he's in Italy is because if he'd been in Chicago, everything would have been sorted out within about ten seconds. And yet even he's so scared of Molly that he'll give up territory just for the potential of advice from Murphy. Molly is awesome now. Much scarier than Harry really.

Totally.

Cause, on 02 August 2011 - 08:00 AM, said:

...I need to find 'Even Hand', ....

You really, really do.