[POOPOO MCBUMFACE]

Well, this kind of reaffirms my decision to just wait until the series is done before picking it up again. I'd have to re-read the entire series to remember a thing about it at this point (read Feast at release, haven't read any of them since) and I don't really fancy doing that every single time a new one comes out.

[acesn8s]

Werthead, on 18 July 2011 - 12:31 AM, said:

amphibian, on 15 July 2011 - 02:18 PM, said:

Now that I've read ADWD, I can say this: you're deluding yourself if you think Martin accomplishes what he wants in less than eight books. Not unless the dragons grow to continent size and start eating accordingly.

As pointed out, GRRM did move some characters significantly further on in a small timeframe in ADWD, but fell into problems with too many Dany chapters that did little to push things dynamically forward. If he can overcome that, I can see him getting done in 7.

Spoiler

I think Aegon/Connington's gambit will fail, but could do enough damage and may leave behind a bridgehead (at Storm's End?) that can rapidly speed Dany's invasion of Westeros without us having to cover an initial landing and expansion in detail.

Spoiler

What will be key is how fast Dany can get out of her situation. If she convinces the Dothraki to follow her in 1 chapter, shows up at Meereen and kicks some arse in a second and is on her way to Westeros in a third, that could work. Though that seems unlikely. If she takes too long to do these things, I don't see how the series can avoid going to eight.

Spoiler

I can see that happening too. Bring in the Dothraki screamers. Grab the ships currently blockading Meereen, and load everyone on the boats and cross the narrow sea.

[polishgenius]

PoV list at the end of aDwD (I knicked this off a guy on gamefaqs, so it could be missing a few I've also forgot, but it's largely accurate I think).

Spoiler

North of the Wall:
Bran

Wall:
Melissandre
Jon?

Skagos:
Davos

Winterfell/Stannis:
Theon
Asha

Mereen:
Dany
Tyrion
Barristan
Victarion

King's Landing:
Cersei

Riverlands:
Jaime
Brienne

Vale:
Sansa

Old Town:
Samwell

Dorne:
Arianne
Areo

Iron Islands:
Aeron

Stormlands:
Jon Connington

Braavos:
Arya

Speculation which obviously spoils DwD:

Spoiler

I think a lot of those will start running together now. Meereen obviously for starters. Martin may not even show Dany with the Dothraki, she could just roll up in Meereen. At least one of Jaime and Brienne will die soon, and I suspect the remaining PoV will join back with the main KL arc soon enough. I think Sansa will have to return to the political fray soon enough too, and help move that plot along.

I don't think there'll be a huge problem with getting Dany to Westeros by the end of Winds of Winter. I think streamlining the clusterfuck in the North with Stannis, the Boltons, Mance, Davos off rescuing Rickon, whatever's going on in Winterfell with the swords (or did that get explained and I just missed it) etc will cause more of an issue, and seeing what happens in Dorne now, since those plans have only just started moving.

[Ceda Cicero]

polishgenius, on 23 July 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

PoV list at the end of aDwD (I knicked this off a guy on gamefaqs, so it could be missing a few I've also forgot, but it's largely accurate I think).

Spoiler

North of the Wall:
Bran

Wall:
Melissandre
Jon?

Skagos:
Davos

Winterfell/Stannis:
Theon
Asha

Mereen:
Dany
Tyrion
Barristan
Victarion

King's Landing:
Cersei

Riverlands:
Jaime
Brienne

Vale:
Sansa

Old Town:
Samwell

Dorne:
Arianne
Areo

Iron Islands:
Aeron

Stormlands:
Jon Connington

Braavos:
Arya

Speculation which obviously spoils DwD:

Spoiler

I think a lot of those will start running together now. Meereen obviously for starters. Martin may not even show Dany with the Dothraki, she could just roll up in Meereen. At least one of Jaime and Brienne will die soon, and I suspect the remaining PoV will join back with the main KL arc soon enough. I think Sansa will have to return to the political fray soon enough too, and help move that plot along.

I don't think there'll be a huge problem with getting Dany to Westeros by the end of Winds of Winter. I think streamlining the clusterfuck in the North with Stannis, the Boltons, Mance, Davos off rescuing Rickon, whatever's going on in Winterfell with the swords (or did that get explained and I just missed it) etc will cause more of an issue, and seeing what happens in Dorne now, since those plans have only just started moving.

I don't disagree, but

Spoiler

the problem with Dany showing up only at the end of WINDS could be that it only leaves one volume for Dany to both secure her place in Westeros, wherever that may be, and for the threat of the Others to come to a head. Obvi there are other possible factors I'm excluding here (like for example, Dany could land in the North and go straight to the Wall, who the hell knows.) But however you slice it, Dany only getting to Westeros at the end of WINDS seems like almost a guarantee of an 8th book to me.

I've said it before, and you touched on it there, but the only way 7 books will work is if he breaks from the precedent he set in DANCE with Jon, Tyrion, and Dany and has no qualms about maneuvering them (Dany especially) off-screen the way you postulated, and the way he did with Griff and Young Griff and did pretty consistently in the past volumes with large armies. But I'm skeptical that he will do this.

Also FWIW, I was thinking the same thing about Dany and the Dothraki, that we might not see her again until a Barristan POV outside the gates of Meereen. But GRRM's whole thing about how Mago is going to play a key role in the next book, for whatever reason, makes me think that won't happen, and that we'll get at least a few chapters of Dany trying to bind this new khalasar to her.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 25 July 2011 - 02:30 PM
Reason for edit: to conceal spoilers

[Tsundoku]

So, Jordan startsd with 3/4 and ends up with 14, after his unfortunate and untimely passing.

Martin says 7, yet seasoned pundits are calling 8, and the man himself "knows the end but not how to get there".

Is ADWD small snowflakes of relevance amid a blizzard of details and shit?

[Cause]

Is ADWD small snowflakes of relevance amid a blizzard of details and shit?

Yes!

[Tsundoku]

Cause, on 25 July 2011 - 11:08 AM, said:

Is ADWD small snowflakes of relevance amid a blizzard of details and shit?

Yes!

Do we have any advance on 8? ... 9? I see 9 ... do we have 10? 10 it is sir! ... any more bids ... ?

This post has been edited by Sombra: 25 July 2011 - 03:46 PM

[Paran]

Yeah, Dance didn't seem to get to the plot reolutions required (Mereen, North, Others) required for this series to finish in 2 books. I'd say at least 3 books, if not 4. The Winds of Winter next, something about Night ("The Still of Night"?? ;p) then perhaps A Dream of Spring.

Spoiler

It needed to be resolve Mereen in dance, deal with Westeros/Others in Winds and the Others war in Dream, though even then I would have expected the deal with the Others and the gods to take a couple of books with resolution, kingdoms, peace etc.

This post has been edited by Paran: 27 July 2011 - 10:02 AM

[MecnunK]

My bet on is on, A memory of Spring being the 9th & the final chapter.

[Cause]

Behold!

[EsotericForest]

As long as he actually can finish the series before he himself kicks the bucket, I don't care how many books it is.

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

I hope he writes 20, and I don't care how long it takes. But I'm sure I'll change my tune once I catch up. I stopped reading ACoK to wait for the Tor reread to catch up...and after what seemed like ages, I checked back to find that they had progressed a laughable 9% further into the book.

Oh well. I'm just going to continue reading until I'm caught up and then wait impatiently with the rest of you.

[Vengeance]

Is anyone else curious about how long it takes this planet to go around it sun? I mean Summer lasted for a decade or more and winter is suppose to last for at least that long. For the planet to go around its sun might be 60+ years.

[amphibian]

Vengeance, on 26 July 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Is anyone else curious about how long it takes this planet to go around it sun? I mean Summer lasted for a decade or more and winter is suppose to last for at least that long. For the planet to go around its sun might be 60+ years.

It's not actually the distance between sun and planet that gives us our winter/summer. It's which parts of the earth face the sun (the earth's tilt).

Thus the tilt of Martin's planet is really weird. It spins regularly enough to have a day and night that seem somewhat normal, they have years (trips around the sun) and they have mini-seasons within WINTER and SUMMER apparently. It's really interesting to think about in terms of astronomy.

[Ceda Cicero]

amphibian, on 26 July 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

Vengeance, on 26 July 2012 - 06:32 PM, said:

Is anyone else curious about how long it takes this planet to go around it sun? I mean Summer lasted for a decade or more and winter is suppose to last for at least that long. For the planet to go around its sun might be 60+ years.

It's not actually the distance between sun and planet that gives us our winter/summer. It's which parts of the earth face the sun (the earth's tilt).

Thus the tilt of Martin's planet is really weird. It spins regularly enough to have a day and night that seem somewhat normal, they have years (trips around the sun) and they have mini-seasons within WINTER and SUMMER apparently. It's really interesting to think about in terms of astronomy.

Actually I do believe there's an interview out there somewhere where GRRM indicates that the seasons of his world are not natural and are out of whack because of something supernatural (presumably a spell, some kind of magic, etc) that happened long ago. I'm not 100% on that but I definitely either read it or dreamed that I read it. Wert would know for sure, I bet.

EDIT: This is not the interview I was referring to, as I definitely think he said it explicitly somewhere, but he alludes to the same idea here:

Quote

The most conspicuous aspect of the world of Westeros in The Song of Ice and Fire is the nature of the seasons, the long and random nature of the seasons. I have gotten a number of fan letters over the years from readers who are trying to figure out the reason for why the seasons are the way they are. They develop lengthy theories: perhaps it’s a multiple-star system, and what the axial tilt is, but I have to say, “Nice try, guys, but you’re thinking in the wrong direction.” This is a fantasy series. I am going to explain it all eventually, but it’s going to be a fantasy explanation. It’s not going to be a science-fiction explanation.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 26 July 2012 - 08:16 PM

[Werthead]

Yup, it's magic. Wizards did it.

In fact, based on some of GRRM's prior comments, it does sound like the world had 'normal' seasons up until the Long Night 8000 years ago and the invasion of the Others. Though the Others were defeated, the seasons were left permanently unbalanced. My theory is that the war between the Great Other and R'hllor (or rather their followers) results in the seasons: when R'hllor is 'winning', we get long hot seasons and when the Others are in ascendence, we get long cold seasons. Something will presumably have to be done to bring balance to the For...er, seasons, before the end of the series.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 30 July 2012 - 11:24 PM

[Overactive Imagination]

We know You've come to inherit what's Yours...The Mansion
Take our advise and go back on this night
If you refuse 7 will become 8...Oh No"
Oh 7 is 8

[paran falcon]

POOPOO MCBUMFACE, on 20 July 2011 - 01:39 AM, said:

Well, this kind of reaffirms my decision to just wait until the series is done before picking it up again. I'd have to re-read the entire series to remember a thing about it at this point (read Feast at release, haven't read any of them since) and I don't really fancy doing that every single time a new one comes out.

I agree with this completely! I have no memory retention at all anymore. I've not read past book 3 of this series because it was obvious it was just getting going. I learned that lesson from Jordan; doing a re-read after every new book or so. When WoT got to book 9 and still wasn't close to wrapping up, I stopped reading it till I knew the final book was coming. What sucks about ASoIF is that the HBO show will delve into material I haven't read yet and I'd much prefer to read the books first. My wife will not be happy if I refuse to watch future seasons because the books haven't even been written! The first 3 books of this series are the only fantasy I've ever managed to get her to read and that's only because the show was coming out. This issue is also a big reason I was happy to try MBotF; the series is complete! Well, for the most part, right?!

[Lycaenion]

paran falcon, on 26 August 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

POOPOO MCBUMFACE, on 20 July 2011 - 01:39 AM, said:

Well, this kind of reaffirms my decision to just wait until the series is done before picking it up again. I'd have to re-read the entire series to remember a thing about it at this point (read Feast at release, haven't read any of them since) and I don't really fancy doing that every single time a new one comes out.

I agree with this completely! I have no memory retention at all anymore. I've not read past book 3 of this series because it was obvious it was just getting going. I learned that lesson from Jordan; doing a re-read after every new book or so. When WoT got to book 9 and still wasn't close to wrapping up, I stopped reading it till I knew the final book was coming. What sucks about ASoIF is that the HBO show will delve into material I haven't read yet and I'd much prefer to read the books first. My wife will not be happy if I refuse to watch future seasons because the books haven't even been written! The first 3 books of this series are the only fantasy I've ever managed to get her to read and that's only because the show was coming out. This issue is also a big reason I was happy to try MBotF; the series is complete! Well, for the most part, right?!

The ten books tell one complete story, yes. You don't have to read ICE's books to get to a satisfying ending, it's more about filling in the details if you're so inclined. The Tiste trilogy is its own thing, though you can expect some revelations, or at least some details being filled in from the main MBOTF series.

[worry]

What a sick joke.