[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 13 July 2011 - 02:21 PM, said:

Venge may be right in that it's still less risky to be randomly lynching now than it is toward the end of the game.

On the other hand, if we wait until the FKs are used up, then we don't have to worry about accidentally lynching them. We instead have an 11% chance of lynching MH (instead of 8% as right now), which isn't too much better, BUT it's without any 17% danger of killing an FK.

the finders cannot be recruited though. if we lynch and lynch and lynch then we can get rid of the MH first and then use the finders to finish him off, if we do it the other way then the finder become ri and can be recruited.

[Vengeance]

twelve, on 13 July 2011 - 03:09 PM, said:

Grief, on 13 July 2011 - 01:46 PM, said:

I was puzzling over this last night.

OP states we have to kill MH 6 times. The wording of the finder killer role:

The Yan Dynasty generals are finder-killers. At night they can find out whether someone is or isn't Meng Huo. If they find Meng Huo they automatically kill him, up to a maximum of 3 times, after which they become RI. They cannot be designated as a successor by Meng Huo until after they have become RI.

Suggests that the maximum of 3 only applies when they actually find MH.

Meng Huo will randomly incite one player to rebel at the beginning of the game (this player remains their current role and also is Meng Huo). That player will designate a successor. When the Meng Huo player is eliminated, the successor will become the new rebel and Meng Huo and will designate their own successor. And so on, until one faction wins.

The successor only becomes a rebel on the elimination of MH, so we're not looking at a cult as such.

Indeed, the game seems stacked against MH. The finders can kill a total of 6 times between them, we only need to kill MH 6 times. To win the scum have to make it impossible for us to kill MH six times, but the rules don't show the scum as having any way to decrease our numbers. If the generals kill 5 people we're down to 7 people with a max of 2 being MH.

I'm pretty sure I've missed something(or there is something in game to stop it working like this), because as far as I can see town wins just by waiting, which I doubt to be the case.

Meng Huo is described as scum. I don't know about you but to me scum = killer. We are going to be losing players each day I'm sure of it.

Which really means that we most definitely have to lynch at the start of the game. However I see this as more of a search and find mafia game then a typical game.

[Tattersail_]

Remove Vote

I am around but away for next 2 hours, this is moving rather quickly, removed vote because we are being serious and in all seriousness a joke vote will lead to no where. I think lynching is better early on, because the FK's cannot be recruited, that is my main reason. As long as we do not hit finder killers we'll be okay.

[twelve]

Khellendros, on 13 July 2011 - 02:14 PM, said:

It's problem either way. Say we vote for night each time until the FKs get MH three times. That leaves 9 of us into which MH could jump. 1 in 9 is pretty bad odds of lynching the correct person.

But then, if we do lynch every day, the danger is that by the time FKs kill MH three times, we may not have lynched him even once, or his symps, and then there's only a few of us left and MH is very close to winning the game by making it impossible for us to lynch him off.

That is why I'm voting for Night. Boring yes. Smart always (never).

I woke up head still stuff full of sleep. I stumble to the paddock with the sun just over the horizon. I look down and see the Black dead toenails some barely hanging on. I slowly raise my gaze and some of the Yellow pus sores on the legs have definately started to change hue to a sickly Orange color. I poke one with a stick and get rewarded with a squirt to the face. The solid Green core of whatever diseased infesting the massive beast is now firmly lodged in my hair. I need this mammal for my livelyhood. How does it have the strength and energy to move on when it is clearly not a well beast? I finally gaze up to view his masked head. Thankfully the mask is still in place. I throw it some feed and headed back to the hovel to cut out the slimy mess embedded in my hair.

[Tattersail_]

if there are no killers then it'd be in the best interest for the finder killers to reveal themselves, therefore the odds of lynching the MH goes up doesn't it? However we will only know this on day 2. If we vote for night and find out that there is a kill which isn't the MH then we know that scum can kill and therefore the finders stay hidden.

[twelve]

Khellendros, on 13 July 2011 - 03:00 PM, said:

twelve, on 13 July 2011 - 02:58 PM, said:

Khellendros, on 13 July 2011 - 11:58 AM, said:

12 players. One is Meng Huo. Another is his designated successor. Two are finder-killers. The rest are RI.

I assume that if the designated successor is lynched before Meng Huo, then MH selects someone else? Does MH incite someone new to rebel every night, or just one person (their successor)? I assume the latter, as it doesn't say anything about MH continuing to select further people in the OP.

So we have a 1/12 chance of lynching MH. The finder-killers have a 1/6 chance of finding Meng Huo, as there's two of them. So, in that respect, they have a much better chance of finding MH than we do of lynching him. HOWEVER, if we lynch someone, even if they're not MH, that leaves them with 2/11 chance of finding MH, which is even better odds for them. So at this moment I'm more swayed towards lynching than night.

But you are forgetting the most important aspect of killing Meng Huo. You have to do it 6 times!!! There are 12 players. That means that half the playing field will at some point need to be MH for town to win. Sure by lynching someone you give the finders a better chance of finding Meng Huo unless you end up killing a finder by mistake. At that point it would give Meng Huo that much greater advantage to make it until the end.

Twelve, perhaps you should read the rest of the thread before commenting on that. Suffice to say, we've moved on and covered ground some

Yeah I noticed. still catching up.

[Gust Hubb]

So I have a proposal. Since we can reveal anything and everything (by the way, my abilities allow me to get on and off of my elephant, that's right!!! eat it motherfuckers!!!!), why don't we do a coordinated sweep with the finders. We can designate a group we want checked out and maybe lynch or not lynch some one else. With this coordination, we at most would have 2 liars (unless some townie just likes fucking around with us) and since the finders are safe from recruiting, there should be no initial risk in declaring. Whaddaya think?

[Vengeance]

Tattersail, on 13 July 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

if there are no killers then it'd be in the best interest for the finder killers to reveal themselves, therefore the odds of lynching the MH goes up doesn't it? However we will only know this on day 2. If we vote for night and find out that there is a kill which isn't the MH then we know that scum can kill and therefore the finders stay hidden.

See asking that is just asking for a enterprising symp to come out and fake reveal as a finder/kill first. Oh then who do we believe the fake symp or the F/K who revealed after. Hmm lets lynch them both. That is why you don't ask for reveals this early in a game.

[Gust Hubb]

Seriously Veng? We don't jump on the night voter (which I take as personal, being that was my first massive mafia mistake, my first game) but we jump on me for being conversational? I just don't get it. Where's the love? Where's the logic? we were doing statistics just a short while ago...

[Kurt Montandon]

Gust Hubb, on 13 July 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

So I have a proposal. Since we can reveal anything and everything (by the way, my abilities allow me to get on and off of my elephant, that's right!!! eat it motherfuckers!!!!), why don't we do a coordinated sweep with the finders. We can designate a group we want checked out and maybe lynch or not lynch some one else. With this coordination, we at most would have 2 liars (unless some townie just likes fucking around with us) and since the finders are safe from recruiting, there should be no initial risk in declaring. Whaddaya think?

As Tattersail pointed out, that's best saved for Day 2, in case there's a Killer.

Also, this wall of numbers is making my brain hurt. I blame Venge.

[Vengeance]

Gust Hubb, on 13 July 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

So I have a proposal. Since we can reveal anything and everything (by the way, my abilities allow me to get on and off of my elephant, that's right!!! eat it motherfuckers!!!!), why don't we do a coordinated sweep with the finders. We can designate a group we want checked out and maybe lynch or not lynch some one else. With this coordination, we at most would have 2 liars (unless some townie just likes fucking around with us) and since the finders are safe from recruiting, there should be no initial risk in declaring. Whaddaya think?

So you want to have the finders reveal and hopefully have the fake symps reveal and then let them square off and break them into groups and let the finders do there job. That would be a good idea except for the fact that the fake finders would just come back and say every single day that the person that they found (insert name here) came up as not MH. Everyone who the fakes said that they did finds on would then be convinced that they were the real finders, if they said that they did a fake find on HM he would then know who at least one of his symps are and thus not target that person for succession. All in all creating a huge nasty mess.

[twelve]

Okay now that I'm caught up I would like to say I'm pleasantly surprised that my vote for night was at least serously discussed and I wasn't speed lynched just for the suggestion. After all of the discussion I have been convinvced that a lynch day one even with the winning conditions of killing Meng Huo 6 times on the board isn't a terrible idea. That being said I am willing to have fun with this vote. With how much free time he has now I know this would just kill him.

remove vote

Vote Vengeance

[Vengeance]

Kurt Montandon, on 13 July 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 13 July 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

So I have a proposal. Since we can reveal anything and everything (by the way, my abilities allow me to get on and off of my elephant, that's right!!! eat it motherfuckers!!!!), why don't we do a coordinated sweep with the finders. We can designate a group we want checked out and maybe lynch or not lynch some one else. With this coordination, we at most would have 2 liars (unless some townie just likes fucking around with us) and since the finders are safe from recruiting, there should be no initial risk in declaring. Whaddaya think?

As Tattersail pointed out, that's best saved for Day 2, in case there's a Killer.

Also, this wall of numbers is making my brain hurt. I blame Venge.

[Vengeance]

twelve, on 13 July 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

Okay now that I'm caught up I would like to say I'm pleasantly surprised that my vote for night was at least serously discussed and I wasn't speed lynched just for the suggestion. After all of the discussion I have been convinvced that a lynch day one even with the winning conditions of killing Meng Huo 6 times on the board isn't a terrible idea. That being said I am willing to have fun with this vote. With how much free time he has now I know this would just kill him.

remove vote

Vote Vengeance

You sir are obviously scum. Only scum would want to so swiftly eliminate my helpfulness to town this early.

[twelve]

Gust Hubb, on 13 July 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

Seriously Veng? We don't jump on the night voter (which I take as personal, being that was my first massive mafia mistake, my first game) but we jump on me for being conversational? I just don't get it. Where's the love? Where's the logic? we were doing statistics just a short while ago...

Hey Gust,

My fisrt mafia game saw me lynched for voting night day one too.

[twelve]

Kurt Montandon, on 13 July 2011 - 03:49 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 13 July 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

So I have a proposal. Since we can reveal anything and everything (by the way, my abilities allow me to get on and off of my elephant, that's right!!! eat it motherfuckers!!!!), why don't we do a coordinated sweep with the finders. We can designate a group we want checked out and maybe lynch or not lynch some one else. With this coordination, we at most would have 2 liars (unless some townie just likes fucking around with us) and since the finders are safe from recruiting, there should be no initial risk in declaring. Whaddaya think?

As Tattersail pointed out, that's best saved for Day 2, in case there's a Killer.

Also, this wall of numbers is making my brain hurt. I blame Venge.

Yeah. He likes fucking with people just because he can.

[Gust Hubb]

Really! Thanks twelve, I feel much better now.

[twelve]

Also my great ablily allows me to take a peak under my elephants mask to remind me how ugly he is and how undeserving I am of my responsibilities. Keeps me from getting too ambitious.

[Kurt Montandon]

twelve, on 13 July 2011 - 03:53 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 13 July 2011 - 03:48 PM, said:

Seriously Veng? We don't jump on the night voter (which I take as personal, being that was my first massive mafia mistake, my first game) but we jump on me for being conversational? I just don't get it. Where's the love? Where's the logic? we were doing statistics just a short while ago...

Hey Gust,

My fisrt mafia game saw me lynched for voting night day one too.

I'm pretty sure that happened to me, as well.

It's almost like an initiation rite, or something.

[twelve]

Well I've got to go. Work and all. I still think we should at least test out my vote for night theory once to see what happens at night. Otherwise I'm down with going the tradition route of random voting day one to "gather" information.