[twelve]

Mentalist, on 13 July 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

you know, sitting around, waiting for finders to find scum may be a safer way, but it sure as hell isn't the MAFIA way.

vote twelve

essentially you are suggesting we rely on the finders to solve everything. that's just a poor plan, imo.

Before the shot clock era in basketball many teams implemented a 4 corners strategy. It is a strategy where one team basically plays keep away from the other team. It is an absolutely awful thing to watch, so why did coaches use it? Because it worked and it was within the rules. I'm all for making cases and voting players out but right now I'm a towny and I'm playing to win. If that mean doing something very unmafia like and voting for night on day one because it is a smart thing to do then okay it's boring as hell but if it gets me the win then go team.

But what you failed to point out is that I have a vote out on a player and am not currently voting for night. After my inital night vote there has been much discussion and because of that discussion I'm now leaning more towards only 3 combined night kills from the finders. That won't put the whole load on the finders and that will give you mafia traditionalist what you want and that is a lynching.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 13 July 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

And if not lynched, then HO is someone I'd like to see investigated. And if not them, then, I dunno, Vengeance, for being too much on the other end of the usefulness scale

Edited for grammar

i'll go along with this

Vote HiddenOne

[Tattersail_]

remove vote

I forgot we were being serious. The above vote was based on our (HO and mine) back and forth earlier on. Him holding his grudge but i'm going to have a look through the thread and see who would be the best candidate for a lynch based on the information we have so far. What I would like to say at the moment is that there is Roldom and Shinrei who have to give us their views on events so far.

[Tattersail_]

Quote

The Yan Dynasty generals are finder-killers. At night they can find out whether someone is or isn't Meng Huo. If they find Meng Huo they automatically kill him, up to a maximum of 3 times, after which they become RI. They cannot be designated as a successor by Meng Huo until after they have become RI.

Definately lynch every day. The more I think on it the better it is for the finders, they will know if we have got a MH or not. Without a lynch they will just have their failed find and not knowing what the other find entailed unless there is a reveal. It may be a good idea for when they reveal to give us their name so that we know whether or not they are a general. If they say they are one then they cannot lie with the name because someone else can out them.

[Tattersail_]

Going to make some chips, back in a little while to go through what has been said so far. Anyone else around?

[Khellendros]

Tattersail, on 13 July 2011 - 08:19 PM, said:

Quote

The Yan Dynasty generals are finder-killers. At night they can find out whether someone is or isn't Meng Huo. If they find Meng Huo they automatically kill him, up to a maximum of 3 times, after which they become RI. They cannot be designated as a successor by Meng Huo until after they have become RI.

Definately lynch every day. The more I think on it the better it is for the finders, they will know if we have got a MH or not. Without a lynch they will just have their failed find and not knowing what the other find entailed unless there is a reveal. It may be a good idea for when they reveal to give us their name so that we know whether or not they are a general. If they say they are one then they cannot lie with the name because someone else can out them.

Not sure what you mean by this. How will we know they are a Yan Dynasty general by their name? I mean, even if we wikipede or whatever to find out if that is a Yan Dynasty general, wouldn't there be 1) more than 2 generals out there they could choose a name from, 2) someone outing them saying they have the same name could be a symp lying - resulting in confusion about who's telling the truth and possibly resulting in us lynching the real finder.

[Grief]

twelve, on 13 July 2011 - 06:16 PM, said:

Good for you Gust Hubb. I'm all for breaking the trend of killing off vote for night players day one.

@grief

My defense for voting night has very little to do with we might hit finders.

If town lynches wrong more than 6 times it's game over. Scum wins. We don't know for sure that Meng Huo does or does not have killing powers. We also don't know for sure if the finders share a total of 3 kills on correct finds or they each have 3 each. When I made the suggestion for voting for night I read the OP as each finder has 3 kills each. With that in my mind to balance out Meng Huo's chances of winning giving him a killing power would make sense. If everyone is right and Meng Huo does not have killing powers then voting for night won't hurt at all. Then if there is no night killing then most likely the finders share only 3 find/kills between them and it will now be up to the town to do the leg work of killing Meng Huo 3 times via lynches. Voting night provides information and might even puts us in a better position that we currently are in.

As for coordinating finders I have no idea how to do that. The Generals aren't named in the OP. There is a good chance that they don't know each other. How are you going to have them coordinate without revealing that they are in fact finders. If there is a way to coordinate then I'm good with putting finds on HiddenOne and Vengeance but without a reveal from at least one of them then I don't see how to do it.

We almost certainly have to lynch at some point. Otherwise I can't see a way for MH to win.

You have claimed that MH probably has NK abilities a couple of times now. PS has told us that their aren't any useful roles outside of the OP, and the OP does not mention scum having any killing power.

Voting night does not provide us with any information that lynching and going to night doesn't.

You claim your defence for night voting has little to do with not wanting to hit a general. This seems somewhat like you are changing your story, since earlier it certainly seemed to.

[Tattersail_]

Path-Shaper, on 12 July 2011 - 05:15 PM, said:

Following the Battle of Shang Yong, Huang Zhong consolidated his power in Jing and began expanding his rule into the southern provinces. With the ample naval resources of the Jing province, Liu Yao in the east was daunted into an alliance with Huang Zhong and was cause for concern. In AD 220, Huang Zhong followed Yuan Shao and Zhang Xiu in declaring himself Emperor, founding the southern Yan Dynasty. The next few years were spent establishing an imperial bureaucracy and military across his kingdom.

There began a period of happiness and prosperity for the people. Tranquillity prevailed, the harvests were rich year after year, and old and young, with fair, round bellies, well lined, simply sang with joy. The people hastened to fulfill their state duties and vied with each other in the performance of all arts. As a natural consequence all military preparations were perfect, the granaries bursting with grain and the treasury full to overflowing.

In the far south, the Nanman King of Kings, Meng Huo, turned a covetous eye on the riches of the Yan while the southward-traveling border angered him. Gathering his forces, he marched into the southern Yan territories, pillaging and plundering. Word arrived in the capital and Huang Zhong swiftly dispatched forces under Gu Yong. A large battle ensued and King Meng Huo was captured in a Yan ambush as he fled through a narrow ravine. The King was bound and brought before Gu Yong.

"Why do you rebel against our Emperor?"

"The two River Lands belonged to others, and your lord took it from them by force, and gave himself the title of Emperor. My people have lived here for ages, and you and your cohorts invaded my country without the least excuse. How can you talk of rebellion to me?"

"You are my prisoner. Will you submit or are you still contumacious?"

"Why should I submit? You happened to find me in a narrow place. That is all."

"If I release you, what then?"

"If you release me I shall return, and when I have set my army in order, I shall come to fight you again. However, if you catch me once more, I will submit."

The King's bonds were loosed. He was clothed and refreshed, given a horse and caparisons, and sent with a guide to his own camp.

The two highlighted are imo the Yan Generals. Read it again and you'll see that i'm right or a very good guesser anyway.

[Tattersail_]

Khellendros, on 13 July 2011 - 08:32 PM, said:

Tattersail, on 13 July 2011 - 08:19 PM, said:

Quote

The Yan Dynasty generals are finder-killers. At night they can find out whether someone is or isn't Meng Huo. If they find Meng Huo they automatically kill him, up to a maximum of 3 times, after which they become RI. They cannot be designated as a successor by Meng Huo until after they have become RI.

Definately lynch every day. The more I think on it the better it is for the finders, they will know if we have got a MH or not. Without a lynch they will just have their failed find and not knowing what the other find entailed unless there is a reveal. It may be a good idea for when they reveal to give us their name so that we know whether or not they are a general. If they say they are one then they cannot lie with the name because someone else can out them.

Not sure what you mean by this. How will we know they are a Yan Dynasty general by their name? I mean, even if we wikipede or whatever to find out if that is a Yan Dynasty general, wouldn't there be 1) more than 2 generals out there they could choose a name from, 2) someone outing them saying they have the same name could be a symp lying - resulting in confusion about who's telling the truth and possibly resulting in us lynching the real finder.

Okay, then in some ways it goes down to trust and how you percieve that player and what they say.

[Tattersail_]

i am going soon so will need to lay down a vote, its day one so we do not have a lot of information to go on. I am thinking about voting Mentalist for his vote on Twelve, let me go back and have a look at this. Yes, twelve had an original idea of voting night, which with all that maths seemed an almost good choice at the start, however, after discussion and deliberation we have found that lynching would be more ideal early on. So Twelve laying down a vote and changing his tune didn't seem off. However, Grief's case was a lot better as it shows that someone is around and willing to post and it looks as if they are contributing but a lot of it was padded posts. Back to Mentalist...

[twelve]

Grief, on 13 July 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:

We almost certainly have to lynch at some point. Otherwise I can't see a way for MH to win.

You have claimed that MH probably has NK abilities a couple of times now. PS has told us that their aren't any useful roles outside of the OP, and the OP does not mention scum having any killing power.

Voting night does not provide us with any information that lynching and going to night doesn't.

You claim your defence for night voting has little to do with not wanting to hit a general. This seems somewhat like you are changing your story, since earlier it certainly seemed to.

Blah, Blah, Blah.

You say I'm changing my story and you are right. Because I've changed my mind on what I think is the likely setup for the game. Have you not played mafia before? People who don't know what is going on change their mind on what they think is really going on all the time. The only people that are usually secure in the knowledge that they know what is going on are scum.

remove vote

Has anyone heard from Roldom? I need to double check . I don't remember anything he has posted.

[Gust Hubb]

Well, just out of curiosity, a question for the old-timers... Who among us is the slipperiest? Perhaps we should knock of the person who is the hardest to lynch and thus save ourselves some trouble later down the road since there is not much to go on yet. As I said, I voted night for now, but still not knowing you chaps well enough, I am not sure who is acting out of character or who is acting suspicious. Would this be a way to go if we want to lynch on day one? hmmm?

[Gust Hubb]

Nope, no Roldom that I could see in a skim through the pages. And other than saying he's reading up, ansible has also been merely lurking so far.

[Tattersail_]

Grief, you say you would vote for Twelve because of padding, well...

Mentalist, on 13 July 2011 - 03:07 AM, said:

ooh, this game is on? sweet

Mentalist, on 13 July 2011 - 04:12 PM, said:

twelve, on 13 July 2011 - 06:37 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 13 July 2011 - 03:50 AM, said:

Clarification: All (useful) abilities are outlined in the setup thread. There are no hidden (useful) mechanics/roles/abilities.

Oh Come on!!!! .


My elephants skin is a nice gangerous Green hint with Yellow pus filled oozing sores. It's tusks are a lovely shade of Black rot with cancerous Orange veins running through them. It's breath is so rotten it makes me nearly pass out. It's so bad I have to wear a triple layer wool mask over my nose and mouth. For feeding I have to

vote night

just to survive me peeking a look under his bamboo mask. Medusa has nothing on my pachyderm for taking people out and keeping them in line.



Now fools don't go voting me out for this post or my vote. I'll be around in 8 hours I'm leaving you with nothing to talk about other than my vote. The rest of this post is a tip of the hat to the mod for her great creativty. My vote is in all seriousness. I'll explain my reasoning when I get up on the morning. If you think about it my vote makes sense.


Now I too am off to blissful slumber.


Oh and I changed my mind at the last minute. Welcome everyone.

what is this, I don't even....

Well, explain to me a bit further please because your post makes me bang my head against the wall more than his story writing.

Mentalist, on 13 July 2011 - 04:48 PM, said:

Gust Hubb, on 13 July 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

So I have a proposal. Since we can reveal anything and everything (by the way, my abilities allow me to get on and off of my elephant, that's right!!! eat it motherfuckers!!!!), why don't we do a coordinated sweep with the finders. We can designate a group we want checked out and maybe lynch or not lynch some one else. With this coordination, we at most would have 2 liars (unless some townie just likes fucking around with us) and since the finders are safe from recruiting, there should be no initial risk in declaring. Whaddaya think?

you stole my power, you bastard!

Are you posting so that people remember you posted something?

Mentalist, on 13 July 2011 - 04:51 PM, said:

Also, venge being this helpful is pretty scary.

Almost a finger point here, something to build a case on? Is Venge being helpful a bad thing? Should our finders send their feelers his way?

Mentalist, on 13 July 2011 - 06:40 PM, said:

you know, sitting around, waiting for finders to find scum may be a safer way, but it sure as hell isn't the MAFIA way.

vote twelve

essentially you are suggesting we rely on the finders to solve everything. that's just a poor plan, imo.

Well, you have a better idea of solving things? I understand why Grief has fingered Twelve but not why you join him. The more I look at it the more I think you are hiding, I cannot put into words what i'm thinking, if you want a lynch and Venge has more votes on him then why not vote for him, especially if you are wary of him.

Looking at your posts, there is not much content, nothing that stands out or has people looking at you ina suspicious way, but your vote highlighted you in my opinion.

I am going to

Vote Mentalist

Nothing personal, you're a top bloke but you got to die unless someone can come up with something better...

[twelve]

Quick thought before I forget.

If the finder/killers only get three total kills between them and Meng Huo or any other possible scum doesn't have any night kill powers then I would suggest that our finders don't use their finds initially. We try to lynch Meng Huo to death 3 times and then let the finders do the dirty work the last three times or until our lynching him fails miserably and we are getting dangerously close to being mathmaticaly unable to pull of the win.

[twelve]

No Roldom.... Hmmm

Is he lurking or just Awol?

And Tat is back to bulldoging those pesky "helpful" posters. Not that I'm complaing at the moment. It does seem that Ment doesn't put much work into his case on me.

[Tattersail_]

twelve, on 13 July 2011 - 09:26 PM, said:

No Roldom.... Hmmm

Is he lurking or just Awol?

And Tat is back to bulldoging those pesky "helpful" posters. Not that I'm complaing at the moment. It does seem that Ment doesn't put much work into his case on me.

Is that a bad thing? I could easily have went ahead with Grief and Ment and voted for you but because Ment's case was flimsy at best he deserved the vote ahead of you.

[Tattersail_]

Gust Hubb, on 13 July 2011 - 09:18 PM, said:

Nope, no Roldom that I could see in a skim through the pages. And other than saying he's reading up, ansible has also been merely lurking so far.

Roldom lives in NZ does he not? Well he will be posting tonight when most of us go to bed. Same with Shin, I'm not sure where Ansible is from but you got to give them the benefit of the doubt as the game has only just begun.

[Khellendros]

twelve, on 13 July 2011 - 09:22 PM, said:

Quick thought before I forget.

If the finder/killers only get three total kills between them and Meng Huo or any other possible scum doesn't have any night kill powers then I would suggest that our finders don't use their finds initially. We try to lynch Meng Huo to death 3 times and then let the finders do the dirty work the last three times or until our lynching him fails miserably and we are getting dangerously close to being mathmaticaly unable to pull of the win.

I'm sorry, but why shouldn't the finders investigate every night? It's not like there's repurcussions for them if they get it wrong, the number of times they can investigate only goes down if they get it RIGHT. And why wouldn't we want them to get it right?

[Tattersail_]

I think they should find until they have killed MH twice. Then they should calm down so as to protect them from recruitment