[Traveller]

Just finished it.....SPOILERS BELOW














I finished this last night.

I have to say, I thought the beginning was slow... which then got even slower paced with the new POV's and chapters of Dany still going nowhere.

But it picked up again, thankfully. I thought the Bran chapters, and the insights into the Ravens and the Weirwoods was great - especially the moment where Bran was linked back to the scene with Ned from GoT's. After the Meereen 'set-up', I almost cheered when we finally got some Jaime and Arya action at last, and more Theon... best part of the book for me, i think, even if the whole Stannis thing was left hanging - we've seen letters about deaths to be wrong before.

I'm not too happy about the Jon ending. I'm really hoping that this is like an Arya/Hound/Axe moment... presumably he was wearing furs/mail etc? It didn't actually describe him bleeding out or anything. Or am I just hoping too much?

The Dany chapters... well, the situation that she was in was actually well thought out, as you can't just take a city, call yourself leader, and expect everyone to be happy. I liked the way it didn't work out, and all the political upheaval (although pretty dull reading) was exactly the sort of thing that you'd expect to happen. Summed up by Quentyn... plan = sneak in, come out riding dragon, off into the sunset with the grateful Queen. Reality = dragon scares the shit out of you, then cooks you where you stand.

Overall I liked the book, it had some great writing. I just wish the whole format was different, and that he'd merged it more successfully with AFFC - it went for too many chapters without following anyone I was really interested in, which was a mistake I think.

[Gothos]

Traveller, on 27 July 2011 - 07:45 AM, said:

I'm not too happy about the Jon ending. I'm really hoping that this is like an Arya/Hound/Axe moment... presumably he was wearing furs/mail etc? It didn't actually describe him bleeding out or anything. Or am I just hoping too much?

Spoiler

"He didn't ever feel the fourth dagger. Only the cold." - doesn't leave much room for speculation, he's dead. Though if he stays dead remains to be seen

[Dolorous Menhir]

Could he rise as an Other?

[nacht]

Traveller, on 27 July 2011 - 07:45 AM, said:

Just finished it.....SPOILERS BELOW














I finished this last night.

I have to say, I thought the beginning was slow... which then got even slower paced with the new POV's and chapters of Dany still going nowhere.

But it picked up again, thankfully. I thought the Bran chapters, and the insights into the Ravens and the Weirwoods was great - especially the moment where Bran was linked back to the scene with Ned from GoT's. After the Meereen 'set-up', I almost cheered when we finally got some Jaime and Arya action at last, and more Theon... best part of the book for me, i think, even if the whole Stannis thing was left hanging - we've seen letters about deaths to be wrong before.

I'm not too happy about the Jon ending. I'm really hoping that this is like an Arya/Hound/Axe moment... presumably he was wearing furs/mail etc? It didn't actually describe him bleeding out or anything. Or am I just hoping too much?

The Dany chapters... well, the situation that she was in was actually well thought out, as you can't just take a city, call yourself leader, and expect everyone to be happy. I liked the way it didn't work out, and all the political upheaval (although pretty dull reading) was exactly the sort of thing that you'd expect to happen. Summed up by Quentyn... plan = sneak in, come out riding dragon, off into the sunset with the grateful Queen. Reality = dragon scares the shit out of you, then cooks you where you stand.

Overall I liked the book, it had some great writing. I just wish the whole format was different, and that he'd merged it more successfully with AFFC - it went for too many chapters without following anyone I was really interested in, which was a mistake I think.

I thought the Quentyn stuff was really stupid.
So this is what the Doran Martell cooked up after thinking so much...
Sending his eldest son on some fool's errand...

[Ceda Cicero]

nacht, on 27 July 2011 - 11:05 PM, said:

Traveller, on 27 July 2011 - 07:45 AM, said:

Just finished it.....SPOILERS BELOW



]








I finished this last night.

I have to say, I thought the beginning was slow... which then got even slower paced with the new POV's and chapters of Dany still going nowhere.

But it picked up again, thankfully. I thought the Bran chapters, and the insights into the Ravens and the Weirwoods was great - especially the moment where Bran was linked back to the scene with Ned from GoT's. After the Meereen 'set-up', I almost cheered when we finally got some Jaime and Arya action at last, and more Theon... best part of the book for me, i think, even if the whole Stannis thing was left hanging - we've seen letters about deaths to be wrong before.

I'm not too happy about the Jon ending. I'm really hoping that this is like an Arya/Hound/Axe moment... presumably he was wearing furs/mail etc? It didn't actually describe him bleeding out or anything. Or am I just hoping too much?

The Dany chapters... well, the situation that she was in was actually well thought out, as you can't just take a city, call yourself leader, and expect everyone to be happy. I liked the way it didn't work out, and all the political upheaval (although pretty dull reading) was exactly the sort of thing that you'd expect to happen. Summed up by Quentyn... plan = sneak in, come out riding dragon, off into the sunset with the grateful Queen. Reality = dragon scares the shit out of you, then cooks you where you stand.

Overall I liked the book, it had some great writing. I just wish the whole format was different, and that he'd merged it more successfully with AFFC - it went for too many chapters without following anyone I was really interested in, which was a mistake I think.

I thought the Quentyn stuff was really stupid.
So this is what the Doran Martell cooked up after thinking so much...
Sending his eldest son on some fool's errand...

It wasn't really a fool's errand. Doran probably didn't think it likely that Dany would be in any position to be able to decline the support of Dorne - regardless of how unattractive she found Quentyn or how obliged she felt to honor the pact that as signed for Viserys/Arianne - even if she wanted to. Much less that she would be so mired in Meereenese politics that she would be more liable to marry to secure her position in Meereen than to do the same for her claim in Westeros.

And as I've said before, the Quentyn bits did seem sort of pointless in the context of this installment, particularly in terms of how it ended. But you can be sure it will have enormous implications on later events. Who's to say what will happen with Dorne now - one of two of the Seven Kingdoms that's entirely unspoiled by the Wo5K - especially with Connington seeking the backing of the Martells for Aegon.

This post has been edited by Ceda Cicero: 28 July 2011 - 01:05 AM

[Paran]

Gothos, on 27 July 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

Traveller, on 27 July 2011 - 07:45 AM, said:

I'm not too happy about the Jon ending. I'm really hoping that this is like an Arya/Hound/Axe moment... presumably he was wearing furs/mail etc? It didn't actually describe him bleeding out or anything. Or am I just hoping too much?

Spoiler

"He didn't ever feel the fourth dagger. Only the cold." - doesn't leave much room for speculation, he's dead. Though if he stays dead remains to be seen

Spoiler

I believe Jon not feeling the 4th dagger is an indication that he's already shifting/shifted to Ghost. This is intimated in the prologue with 6 skins and how he didn't feel his death when he shifted to the 1 eyed wolf.

[acesn8s]

Paran, on 28 July 2011 - 02:52 AM, said:

Gothos, on 27 July 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

Traveller, on 27 July 2011 - 07:45 AM, said:

I'm not too happy about the Jon ending. I'm really hoping that this is like an Arya/Hound/Axe moment... presumably he was wearing furs/mail etc? It didn't actually describe him bleeding out or anything. Or am I just hoping too much?

Spoiler

"He didn't ever feel the fourth dagger. Only the cold." - doesn't leave much room for speculation, he's dead. Though if he stays dead remains to be seen

Spoiler

I believe Jon not feeling the 4th dagger is an indication that he's already shifting/shifted to Ghost. This is intimated in the prologue with 6 skins and how he didn't feel his death when he shifted to the 1 eyed wolf.

If I read Sixskins chapter right, ff Jon shifts into Ghost because his body dies, that is it. Jon is a Direwolf until his next (final) death.

[Tapper]

acesn8s, on 28 July 2011 - 12:13 PM, said:

Paran, on 28 July 2011 - 02:52 AM, said:

Gothos, on 27 July 2011 - 07:58 AM, said:

Traveller, on 27 July 2011 - 07:45 AM, said:

I'm not too happy about the Jon ending. I'm really hoping that this is like an Arya/Hound/Axe moment... presumably he was wearing furs/mail etc? It didn't actually describe him bleeding out or anything. Or am I just hoping too much?

Spoiler

"He didn't ever feel the fourth dagger. Only the cold." - doesn't leave much room for speculation, he's dead. Though if he stays dead remains to be seen

Spoiler

I believe Jon not feeling the 4th dagger is an indication that he's already shifting/shifted to Ghost. This is intimated in the prologue with 6 skins and how he didn't feel his death when he shifted to the 1 eyed wolf.

If I read Sixskins chapter right, ff Jon shifts into Ghost because his body dies, that is it. Jon is a Direwolf until his next (final) death.

Spoiler

Could be Six-skins just doesn't know how to shift out of the animal. Also, it has never been Jon's goal to shift into Ghost where that is what shapeshifters learn and seek. The way his mind and Ghost's interact may well be different from Bran, Six-skins and other trained shifters with Jon remaining consciousness and looking for a way out.

EDIT: besides, those guys never had some magic doing priestess of ever growing powers present, had they?

Funnily enough, Ghost being an albino with red eyes, if I am not mistaken, he is more 'Azor Azai aspected' than Jon ever was

This post has been edited by Tapper: 28 July 2011 - 01:15 PM

[Ulrik]

Finished... and as I was excited by first half, Im disappointed with second.

Spoiler

Finished... and as I was excited by first half, Im disappointed with second.

I can see how many great ideas has Martin at the beginning and how it all splashed into one big slow moving thread.
His design to make ALL story arc cliffhangered is for me annoying.
Whey you announce that FoC is like first half of one book and DwD second, its for me almost unacceptable to finish it like DwD is just one episode of series. So we have potentially dead Stannis (that would be really cheap), Jaime riding to trap, Jon potentially dead (I dont believe it, it just stinks with classic Martin "looks dead, but tadaaa...its alive!"), Dany...I dont care bout her anymore, Bran becoming a tree...dunno, I probably forgot something...oh, Tyrion preparing "surprising" twist...
...meh...
No, sorry, but only Epilogue saved good taste from beginning of the book. Jon Connington and Aegon is great new story arc. Unfortunately Quentyn was mistake. I understand why he has to be in book, but his part was poorly executed. Tyrion´s road movie was pretty interesting, Jon´s preparing for war too...I just waited for "hahaaa, now I get rid of him, surprised?!"...and it came. Dorne was in only one chapter iirc, but yeah, it elaborates Westeros politics.
On the other hand, I do not care for Mereen and spol anymore. Beginning with Dany, Tyrion, Griff and Quentyn (oh, and Victarion, another man hanging from cliff) going to one place looked well. And in final I got another dose of "Dany wandering in her teenage mind and wanting to fuck someone". Thanks, I had enough.

Do I sound frustrated? Well...I am, because we didnt move anywhere! We just have dead Quentyn and Kevan. Mereen is still besieged, Wall is still waiting for Others and, oh yeah, Cersei went from jail to Red Keep.
Main event is Conningtons invasion - and its almost offscreen. Sorry, but events of this book would be fit into few chapters of SoS.

I loved DwD when it looked like big game changer. And now I realized that I got 1000 pages...with almost no change. Feast of Crows was more solving than this.

Marting is repeating itself in too many ways. His "surprising" betrayals, "surprising" killing of characters, neverending brooding of "Old Guard" and repeating same phrases and motives again and again.

Im not looking forward to next book(s). Which is sad... but I dont believe that anything happens till the end. Give it to me and free yourself mister Martin. IMO is ASoIaF your prison... make series, it looks like its fun for you. Write other novels.

[LadyMTL]

I finished the book a few days ago and wanted to ponder my review / opinion before posting anything because my first reaction was "meh" and in retrospect I actually liked it more than that. I didn't think that it was better than AFFC but perhaps that's because I found there were too many new POV's that were barely touched upon whereas the main characters got ignored or close to it. I could have done without the Melisandre or Victarion or even Quentyn sections if it meant getting a bit more Jaime, Arya and hell, even Sansa stuff. And don't get me started on the fact that there was barely even a mention of Brienne. I still want to know what it was that she yelled out just before Catelyn was about to hang her in AFFC.

My least favorite storyline was Tyrion's; I really wasn't all that into his journey (both literally and figuratively) and I found myself skimming through a lot of his chapters, which I never did before, though the surprise about Griff and Griff Jr was cool. I did enjoy the Theon plot too, except that I got very tired of his "Reek, reek it rhymes with..." rather quickly. As for Dany, I didn't hate her story arc though I do wish that the dragons had been involved a little bit more...I suppose they'll be featured rather heavily in the next book?

Spoiler

Seeing as how two of them were chained in a dungeon for most of DWD and Drogon was only mentioned in passing until he popped up at that gladiator fight / wedding celebration thing, I find it ironic that the book had Dragons in the title. Maybe I take things too literally, hahaha. As for Jon, I'd hope that he's not dead because it seems sort of dumb to spend so much time building a character and developing his story only to kill him off. I'm guessing that he's in Ghost now and maybe he'll hijack someone else's body at some point, the way Sixskins said he did in the prologue?

So yeah...I know this isn't a very comprehensive review but those were just some of my yays and nays. If I had to give DWD a star rating out of ten I'd give it a 7-7.5 tops. Overall I found that ADWD took a looooooooong time to get going and then the various endings were a bit rushed. It almost felt as if GRRM realized that he had to finish the book by X date and packed all of the action into the last 15% of it. I am keeping my fingers crossed that the next book will be more peppy, for lack of a better word.

[HoosierDaddy]

An entirely "Meh" book for me. Had its ups and downs, and the return of two of my favorite PoVs in Jon and Tyrion is a massive plus. The return of Dany as a PoV character is a minus. I don't like her PoV, and frankly the quicker we all get to Westeros the better. Esseros or whatever it is called pretty much sucks.

Spoiler

Strangely, some of my favorite stuff was in new PoVs. Especially Old Griff and that whole plot line. I really enjoyed the Wall stuff and Arya, Reek provided a nice change in characterization that I thought was refreshing. Strangely, I'm liking Melisandre more and more.

The stupidity of characters, the repeated phrases, and the semi-cliffhangers all result in a book that wasn't nearly worth the wait.

[worry]

What wait?

[MecnunK]

Dolorous Menhir, on 27 July 2011 - 06:47 PM, said:

Could he rise as an Other?

He will rise one way or another. there is a red priestess available, six skins experience and ofcourse the other option.

[wolf_2099]

My one sentence review of the book:

6 years, 1000 pages, and a huge book launch and yet the no one seemed to realize the book still wasn't finished.

[Gatekeeper]

There was only one " I have to read that scene again" moment, and yeah, Selmy is bomb, but it didn't save the book. At the end I just wanted Jamie to kill EVERYONE.

[Tyr]

Terrible. Absolutely terrible. I cant believe I stopped reading MoI for this...

As far as I am concerned, the series ended with AFFC. The only thing that can redeem this series for me is Other's victory (which seems more probable than ever).

[FastBen]

Finally done! My review here ...........SBR: A Dance With Dragons Review.......SPOILER FREE


Looks like I'm the only one who loved this book.

This post has been edited by FastBen: 22 August 2011 - 04:14 AM

[worry]

Nah, you're not the only one. In the real world it got some pretty glowing reviews, too. It shouldn't be too surprising that the web is glutted with complainers though (where everyone is basically a High Fidelity character or Comic Book Guy come to life); I'm sure you're familiar with people who actually complained about the time it took to write the book, like their bus to work was late or something.

[FastBen]

worrywort, on 22 August 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

Nah, you're not the only one. In the real world it got some pretty glowing reviews, too. It shouldn't be too surprising that the web is glutted with complainers though (where everyone is basically a High Fidelity character or Comic Book Guy come to life); I'm sure you're familiar with people who actually complained about the time it took to write the book, like their bus to work was late or something.

Agreed - its easy to go overboard with criticism - I found a lot of little things to nitpick on - and the long wait made for very high expectations.......but taking a step back and thinking about it was still more enjoyable and than anything else I've read in quite a while and Martin is really gifted with language - his word selection and style really pulls you in.

And particularly..

Spoiler

I loved Theon's growth as a character - it looks like he might actually find some redemption and have some sort of hand in reclaiming Winterfell.

[Tyr]

worrywort, on 22 August 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

(where everyone is basically a High Fidelity character or Comic Book Guy come to life)

Worst. Book. Ever.

FastBen, on 22 August 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

Spoiler

I loved Theon's growth as a character - it looks like he might actually find some redemption and have some sort of hand in reclaiming Winterfell.

Umm what? He was an absolutely brilliant character in ASOS.. He did not grow much as a character, he got a redemption(ish) arc ala Jaime. Or does growing as a character only apply if the character becomes good-er?

Spoiler

The whole point of Reek was to shatter the person Theon once was...

Where art my righteous defenders of SOS Theon?