[The Darklord]

this list is based upon my opinion only, so u guys are free to suggestions and your own lists.
and yeah, i forgot yedan derryg.....and kilmandaros.

arranged in descending order of awesomeness and unbeatableness

TOP 25 FIGHTERS IN THE MALAZAN WORLD

1. ICARIUM-------------------------

2. DASSEM ULTOR--------------------

3. ANOMANDER RAKE------------------

4. KARSA ORLONG--------------------

5. COTILLION-----------------------

6. SKINNER-------------------------

7. SEGULEH SECOND------------------

8. COWL----------------------------

9. APSALAR-------------------------

10.SILCHAS RUIN-------------------

11.SHI'GALL GU'RULL---------------

12.KALLOR-------------------------

13.GRUNTLE------------------------

14.MOK----------------------------

15.ONOS TOOL'AN-------------------

16.VORCAN-------------------------

17.BLUES--------------------------

18.BRYS BEDDICT-------------------

19.KALAM MEKHAR-------------------

20.MAPPO RUNT---------------------

21.TRULL SENGAR-------------------

22.IRON BARS----------------------

23.SPINNOCK DURAV-----------------

24.TOPPER-------------------------

25.POSSUM-------------------------




Honorable mentions....

osric......didn't include him becuz we don't see much of his POV in the books.

pust.......halted dejim nebrahl..yeah but with magic.

kilava onass......i forgot her.

the manask fellow

[Seatiger]

Cowl at 8 with topper at 24 just who was kicking whos butt

Gods must count sincec Dancer made ure list (Gothos/Raest/Meal/Shadowthrone/Tay/others..) They are all wicked. Pressed for time or id try and make a 25 list in my own opinion..

This post has been edited by Seatiger: 27 June 2011 - 07:29 PM

[Luzburg]

Possum ?????????

What about Temper and Ferrule? The Seguleh FIRST!!!

Greymane and Kazz D'Avore are mentioned in the same breath as Rake, Brood and the First.

Wait wheres Brood in that, and Draconus

Sorry got overboard, its just possum's inclusion made me go crazy

[parabola01]

Where's WhiskeyJack?

[Abyss]

[Seatiger]

Hes admiring his name!

[Aptorian]

parabola01, on 27 June 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

Where's WhiskeyJack?

The guy is never described as an exceptional swordsman. He is described as good, having sparred with Dassem and been able to survive a few blows before Dassem would get through, I would people like Temper and Ferule far above Whiskeyjack, simply because they are not soldiers, they are bodyguards. They have one purpose and one purpose at all and that is to survive and to shield.

Anyway. My list.

(0. Nefarias Bred)

1/2/3. Draconus/Rake/Osserc - I am not sure which one is better than the other. Just because Rake beat Draconus doesn't mean he was the better. Likewise Osserc clashed with Rake countless times none of them being the clear victor.

4. Dassem - The guy was manipulated by Rake so I chose to pick Rake over him. In comparison with Rake I am not sure that Dassem would fare any better against Draconus or Osserc. That said I think he could kill the 3 above and I don't think any of the guys below would stand a chance against him. He is described as the best swordsman in the world by gods. And those gods fear his anger.

5. Hood - The lord of hosts has to be a crazy badass. We've never seen him in a real fight. But the guy was a the leader of an army of a million Jaghut, dragons and FA. I suspect he deservers a very high place so I'll just throw him in here.

6. Mok - I believe this guy actually is the Seguleh 1st. He just hasn't had time to kick the other guys ass yet.

7. Trull - The guy is scary.

8. Tool - I think there's a big difference between the Tool shown in MOI and the one in DOD/TCG. I suspect that only the guys listed above here would fare well against the guy.

9/10. Cotillion/Apsalar - Not really sure where they are supposed to be on the list, but Rake was weary of the Rope. He is a god of killing. I think he can handle himself very, very well in a fight.

11. I'm just going to throw Brood in here even though we have no idea what he is actually worth with or without that Hammer.

12. Kallor - I can't quite place Kallor but the guy has been waging wars more or less constantly it sounds like for a hundred thousand years. The level of respect given him in TCG by the Liosan. The story from TTH. I think Kallor is a very dangerous man.

13. Seguleh guy from RCG.

14. Karsa Orlong

(I'm going to inject Icarium here. I suspect the guys above here might have a chance of killing him before he went BLACK VORTEX OF DEATH AND DESTRUCTION. But I honestly don't know. How much of his skill is natural and how much is magical speed and strength? Does it matter? I think Iccy could be placed anywhere between this spot and number 1. The thing is, if it counts when he is in full keening mode, then he is indestructable from Calms description, so...)

15. Seguleh Second

16. Brys

17. Lasseen.

18 Topper.

19 Cowl.

20. Skinner.

21. Iron Bars

22. Temper.

I don't actually want to put more people on there.

Some last choices. Ruin, Spinnock, the Shigal Assassin, Greymane... I don't really know where they should be so I wont try and put them in there, but I think they could all have high positions... well, maybe not greymane. He is old now.

This post has been edited by Pennyapt: 27 June 2011 - 08:36 PM

[Fiddler Fisher]

Alright... you guys did not take wits into account...
the reason most of these guys are skilled is because they can swing a 6 ft long bastard sword in two directions in a nanosecond
here's my list - there are no gods

1. - Kruppe/Quick Ben/Pust/Tehol Beddict - any of those four could talk even Karsa into killing himself
5. - Karsa - he is difficult to kill by magic and he is probably the most stubborn, toughest swordsman in the series
6. - Anomader Rake - Not only is he an awesome swordsman but he's also a soletaken dragon and a mage who can match 5 other high mages, but he can also devise a plan to chain the bane of magic USING WARDS
7. - Brys Beddict - If he hadn't killed himself with poison, he would have made Rhulad truly be the emperor of a thousand deaths all by himself
8. - Kalam - He could kill any other character in the book in a one vs. one fight maybe he would die himself, but he can always get dragged back into the deadhouse and live (irony)
9. - Trull Sengar - His only weakness was his sentimentality
10. - Fiddler - He could probably even go above many of the others because of experience alone
11. - Ganoes Paran - When you can shape every warren to your will plus make your own warrens, you don't need a sword
12. - Tavore Paran - Pure Strength of will counts for something
13. - Onos Tool'an - Like Trull, his weakness is sentimentality (for an undead that's hard)
14. - Ruthan Gudd - When you can't die, it's kinda' hard to lose the fight.
15. - Coltaine - Not as a fighter, but he isn't a bad one, but as a strategist and tactical player
16 - Seguleh First - He may be skilled but that doesn't count for everything
17 - Iron Bars - He's strong, headstrong, fast and fast of wit
18 - Korlat - she's got a nice soletaken body and a nice wit to match
19 - Silanah - one big ass dragon
20 - Kallor - when you can live under an three elder god's curses for a thousand years, that alone places you on the list.
21 - Icarium - While when he's in rage mode he's unstoppable unless you can fight chaos (Dragnipur knows how futile that is) he isn't much unless he's pissed.
22 - Sister Calm - while there are other Forkrul Assail any of them would work, if only because they can not only kill, but also enslave vast armies of humans to do their bidding.
23 - Queen Abrastal - while unknown, in the end of tCG we find out that she has wit, magic and skill
24 - Gruntle - While not a god, he fights with Treach's power
25 - Roach - For surviving (and making Hood limp)

note: this assessment is based mostly on tCG so don't say "why isn't ________ on this list?"

[Bonecaster]

#1: DASSEM ULTOR

Not sure what order the others go in.

Onos T'oolan

Anomander Rake

Mok

Kallor

Karsa Orlong

Cotillion

Icarium

This post has been edited by Bonecaster: 04 July 2011 - 02:39 PM

[Abberon]

#1 Icarium - The whole world is scared of this guy. The Azath is scared of this guy. There's nothing else to say as far as I'm concerned.

[worry]

You just dropped a truth bomb.

[Aptorian]

The problem is that Icarium is not actually known as the worlds most dangerous fighter. He's just known as a destroyer. I could argue that the Elder Gods are worthy of similar fear. Just look at what Draconus did in DOD.

If Calm is true in her description that Icarium cannot be stopped when he rages because he's not even there, then sure, that makes him pretty much unstoppable. But then he is no longer fighting. He's just a vortex of chaos eating up life.

We saw Trull standing up to Icarium. A mortal Edur. I am pretty sure that Rake or Dassem or a top level Seguleh might have fared better.

[worry]

But that's him. And if you fought him, you might face that possibility. Mass destruction is his "special ability" as much as the atomic leg drop is Hulk Hogan's or exceptional swordplay is Dassem Ultor's, so I see no reason to discount it. On the other hand, you're right that others may best him, because he's not usually a willing fighter until he goes berserk. It's something of a question mark how long he could last on skill-while-rational alone.

[Aptorian]

I resent Erikson for not just giving us that god damn "ICCY DESTROY THE WORLD" moment so we could have seen someone attacking Iccy in Destruction mode.

[worry]

Haha, true. I wonder what happens to Iccy when Caladan Brood swings that hammer for the final time.

[The Darklord]

Abberon, on 04 July 2011 - 03:34 AM, said:

#1 Icarium - The whole world is scared of this guy. The Azath is scared of this guy. There's nothing else to say as far as I'm concerned.

yeah, you are absolutely right. it's a shame that we never see the seguleh first. maybe he could put icarium to sleep forever.
Rake can't. i am assuming icarium is a bit of the hulk when in destruction mode. so he would not register the fact that rake is wielding the dreaded dragnipur nor what would happen if he loses to rake. so there is no holding back from him. he will give all it takes to kill rake. other more sensible people are intimidated by dragnipur and tend to minimise the risks they have to take (fights are won with chances taken) and this often leads to their defeat. this is not the case with icarium in destruction mode. he would not back out and rake would be forced to flee or die.

draconus is pretty mighty but he lost the sword to rake in the first place and yeah it's been thousands of years since then, but i don't think being imprisoned and chained to a wagon inside a damned sword would improve his wits or skills by much. he probably is mad now.

[Bonecaster]

I have no doubt that Icarium is a crazy-good fighter. I should have had him in my list, and just edited my list. Still, I don't know that he's the very top as far as fighting skill goes. If the thread was "Top 25 Malazan Destructive Forces" he'd surely be #1. But who thinks Karsa would have punched out Dassem, or Onos T'oolan, or Mok, etc, if they'd cut his sword off at the hilt? I'm frankly surprised he did manage it with Icarium, but I just don't see everyone being unprepared like that. My impression is that Icarium isn't usually punched by anyone so powerful, so he doesn't usually lose consciousness, even if he's losing a fight, before his rage takes over the whole situation. Just as happened with Trull.

[Abberon]

A few things to follow up on.

I don't think that Rake is at the very top of the the list for a couple of reasons. First, he and Shadowthrone muse in GoTM that it would be an even fight between them and Shadowthrone is only a new God in the pantheon. I'm sure they're both freaking badass and whatnot, but I think there are people out there that can best them.

Next, Karsa Orlong punched Icarium out well before he started keening in rage. Icarium's mind is broken and he sorely underestimated Karsa, but were he actually awakened I think that Karsa would be in a world of trouble.

If Icarium is such a whirlwind of death and destruction, I can't really understand why the gods wouldn't have stepped in to stop him at some point. We know that Draconus and co. moved in after the Chaining to put an end to Kallor's rule because he killed millions, so wouldn't they, or others, have done the same thing with Icarium?

My answer is that they were either unable to, or were afraid to confront Icarium. Again, we know that the Azath is has captured Gods before, and we know that the Azath is terrified of him and that he's torn them apart before.

[worry]

I agree with their fear of the Azath as the best explanation. Other factors re: Icarium's nature, his connection to Gothos, may also play a role.

As far as Icarium's "fighting skill" I still don't see a reason to discount his destructive power. Some people are great with spears and swords, others are great at causing nuclear annihilation. It is a skill within his arsenal. I mean, if you ask "Who would win in a fight between Muhammad Ali and God?" but stipulate God can't use any of his god powers, then it's not really a matchup between Ali and God.

[Bonecaster]

Yes, you're right, worrywort. I just took the title of the thread to mean hand-to-hand, or sword, or spear, or whatever weapon. If you're asking who the best boxer is, you don't include God anywhere in the list. But that's not necessarily what the thread's about. I just jumped to that conclusion.