[Macros]

What I am saying qt, is that apple doesn't have bragging rights, as you claim
Sure they do some things better, more fluidly than others, but rarely is it something NEW. They just stick an I in front of it and market it as new. People swallow that shit whole.

Having Bono in their commercials really didn't help

[rhulad]

QuickTidal, on 29 August 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

rhulad, on 29 August 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Apple hasn't come up with anything original since the Apple II.

Bull. Prove it.

Can you name one thing that they have done in the last 20 years that was truly original? Seriously, cause I can't. Not the iPhone, and certainly not the iPod. So please tell me, what have they done in the last 20 years that no one else had already done?

[Sir Thursday]

QuickTidal, on 29 August 2012 - 06:04 PM, said:

Sir Thursday, on 29 August 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

I don't understand the thrust of your argument here. You seem to be saying that because this is what Apple has always done, that we should just accept this verdict as OK. I fail to see why past behaviour should excuse current bad behaviour. It may be inevitable that Apple would try something like this, but that doesn't make it right.

While I can understand why they might be annoyed at Samsung for apeing their design, the manner in which they are trying to use the patent system is not something that should just be tolerated and accepted. The ridiculous patent system in the US is already a humungous pain in the arse for anyone working in software because of how generalized you can make your patent claims, but the ability to enforce patents on the sort of things Apple has it will make it even worse.

ST

I'm saying that it's not going to stop. I'm saying that no matter how much people complain about it, the US is known for everyone being able to sue each other over everything. A burglar can sue a homeowner for attacking them in defense of their home...I'm saying that Apple is doing nothing more than behave the status quo within the confines of the consumer society that created it and embraces it. Is that right? Gods no. But unless the entirety of global society ceases to use and buy Apple products, it's not going to change. And as long as they exist in the USA where suing folk is a daily activity...

I'm not saying that we personally can't feel that it's not in our own minds the most ethical way to do business...that would be nonsense. It's obviously a terrible way to do business....Just because I accept this is how things are being done in the corporate world doesn't mean I think it's right either.

What I AM saying is that this is a company that is doing things that are being considered sketchy by certain people...and those people jump directly down their throats and begin saying stuff like (no offense) "should not just be tolerated and accepted"...and yet some of the biggest, worst corporations on the planet do FAR, FAR worse in their practices. Take Viacom for example. If you really looked into it, I think you will find that Viacom owns half the bleeding planet when it comes to media. Since their inception they have gobbled up scads of smaller corporations. You probably use 30-50% of their products, activities, and other things every day. Watch any American network TV? Then you are feeding Viacom. How about seeing films made by Paramount? That's the easiest example, but it makes my point. This is a company that is known for horrendous business practices, for not only challenging and suing competition but for utterly destroying competition right down to their last penny. But you rarely, rarely hear about it...partially because the arms of the company are so vast that the fingers don't even know where the arm leads to and what head its attached to. But mostly because they are shady enough to make sure you NEVER find out about the full transgressions in their business model.

And that's only one example, there are a few other Mass global corporations doing terrible things in everyday business.

I'm saying that Apple is low on the list of transgressors, and yet everyone delights in tearing them to pieces, and then go about their daily lives doing things and using many products by MUCH much worse corps...

Lastly, if you truly wish to worry about what should and shouldn't be tolerated in the world, I think we ALL need to start at home (have a look at this site and do the quiz): http://slaveryfootprint.org/

There are 30 slaves working for me according to that site...and I think it's time I really looked at the things I buy and use and make some changes.

There may be far worse atrocities going on, but that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to complain about this one. There's no reason why the validity of one cause should be at all related to the validity of the other unless you're doing a comparison (which most people in this thread are not). It's like, say, a discussion about Bakker where some people say they don't like his work where someone barges in and says their comment is invalid because Terry Goodkind is much worse. It doesn't really make sense as an argument.

ST

[Macros]

Citing Terry goodkind as awful is generally a valid arguement

[Lucifer's Heaven]

QuickTidal, on 29 August 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

rhulad, on 29 August 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Apple hasn't come up with anything original since the Apple II.

Bull. Prove it.

I'm pretty sure you're doing that the wrong way around. Instead of trying to list everything they've done in that time period and why he thinks it's not original, you really should just list a couple of things you think are...


I...blergh, there is a lot of weird nonsensical arguments in your posts QT. Sir Thursday nailed some of it. Just because there are worse things in the world doesn't mean we shouldn't be annoyed/want to stop these things.
Apple products aren't necessarily terrible, and plenty of them are good, but I dislike the company's approach to a lot of things. Yes other companies do worse, but disliking Apple on this front doesn't take away from my dislike of companies like De Beers. And in this case, the topic was actually on Apple, not slavery footprint.
And I am aware of the whole Apple fandom/cult and that they will always buy apple products. In fact, a very large portion (if not most) of that dollar figure Apple is "worth" is based on that. It's not how much they make or what they physically own. It's the brand and the expectation of future sales. Everybody knows about that crowd, it's why you end up with picture like this:



Which neatly highlights both that group of people and Rhulad's point

I can't remember what the other arguments were, but that'll do for now.

PS - Oh!
A big part of my complaint with this whole thing -which you may well have gotten from my previous posts- is that they can sue for the stuff they did, let alone for the amounts they did.
As Sir Thursday again touched on, this is a ridiculous abuse of the patent system. Especially noticeable when cases like this are put up alongside real patent cases. Took CSIRO years and years in US courts to force companies to pay up for infringing on CSIROs WiFi technology patents. As in the core algorithms and technology that make all WiFi devices possible.
Well as you may be aware that technology is being used everywhere these days, and despite having the patent rights before anybody started using it nobody was paying CSIRO for the tech. Took them 10 years to win that case (verdict announced in April this year) and they scored a total of $430m. Which is pretty impressive. The apparent amount they are owed for every piece of tech that uses WiFi technology.
And yet for a few design infringements on a single device in a market full of competitors (a market that is rather based on CSIRO's tech) Apple has been awarded -after a comparatively small amount of time- over $1b...
That, sir, is fucking absurd...

[Shiara]

The thot plickens: Apple targets Galaxy SIII and Galaxy Note in US patent suit

This post has been edited by Shiara: 03 September 2012 - 02:16 AM

[Macros]

Apple please get over yourself.
I would like every single company that apple has borrowed ideas from refined and labled i-shit over the years to come out and simultaneously sue to fuck out of them
Sue them so much they change their name to sue.
Then sue them some more
Then give all the money to starving children the world over
Or me

[Wolfy]

Silly Maccy, phone companies have been in a constant circle of sue and counter sue since mobiles looked like WW2 hand radios.
To put it simply, they will never cease the legal stupidity because if they ever do they will open themselves up to yet more legal stupidity because the law does things like force them to defend certain patents & IP or loose all rights to them completely.
Most of the time nobody even knows or cares about this day to day corporate shenanigans, until recently where several cases have become widely publicised and sensationalised.

[Macros]

Where in this circle do I get the money?

[Binder of Demons]

I'm waiting for the estate of Gene Rodenberry or Paramount, or whoever did the concept of the the handheld communicator on the original Star Trek to sue all the mobile companies for basically robbing their design (as far as i know, the mobile phone companies even expressly stated that they tried to copy the look of the Star Trek communicator because it was already such a well known look, it also was suposed to be for communications, and it was futuristic, win, win, win!!).

All this suing and countersuing is a pain in the ass, because now you have the mega-companies buying up smaller companies that hold strategic patents just so they can sue a rival. That's not how it should be, in my opinion.

What I really hope now though, is that this inspires some small start-up to do something radically different (almost as an antidote to all these smartphone/tablets mimics) and totally alter the communications/media landscape again.

[lastname]

Binder of Demons, on 03 September 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

What I really hope now though, is that this inspires some small start-up to do something radically different (almost as an antidote to all these smartphone/tablets mimics) and totally alter the communications/media landscape again.

Ask yourself this. Would you be super-keen on developing and bringing an idea to the market in this climate? You'll be promptly set upon by patent trolls in no time at all. Those threats and lawsuits not going to be easy to defend against for a private inventor or a small start-up.

[rhulad]

If it was something that was totally original and you held all the patents, it wouldn't matter. The probability of someone being able to come up with something like that is next zero, so most likely it will never happen.

[Shiara]

The problem is that a lot of the design patents are deliberately vague so that they can conceivably be applied to half of the new products coming out in the same field. I mean, seriously? A "rectangle with rounded corners"?

[Silencer]

And a single button on the front!

Yeah, you should not be able to patent something so ludicrously broad. *sigh*

[frookenhauer]

Yup you're right, apple are so bad...so very bad

But Samsung has managed to trump them in total douchebaggery:

LINKY

They flew out 3500 independent bloggers to the IFA in Germany and told them to don uniform, promote samsung products at booths and blog positively about it or they would cancel their return tickets and hotel rooms. Now that is class!

[Eddie Dean]

I've never used either one (I use a Blackberry that cost a dollar), but I did find THIS humorous.

[lastname]

The ban on the Galaxy Nexus has been lifted and the Appeals court had some rather harsh words for the District court. This particular ban wasn't related to the rectangle with round corners (yeah yeah yeah it is soooo much more than that and all that crap) patent. This one was about things like slide to unlock, local search, and ... word completion , things that would've affected other Android phones as well. In that sense, it is a big deal as Apple probably was going to seek and get injunctions (read bans) against other phone-makers going by past history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...nology-19816642
http://www.pcmag.com...,2410857,00.asp

I know this statement is statement is general PR fluff, but boy does it make sense!
Samsung welcomed the latest decision saying it "confirms that the role of patent law is to protect innovation and not to unreasonably stifle competition and restrict consumer choice".

frookenhauer, on 06 September 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Yup you're right, apple are so bad...so very bad

But Samsung has managed to trump them in total douchebaggery

Sorry mate, Samsung still isn't even in the same continent as Apple as far as douchebaggery is concerned but please do keep looking.

[Homer]

Apple might be winning the battle in the US.
But Samsung is winning the Global war.
It has a far larger market share in Asia, particularly China.

If Apple doesn't change its business model, it will lose out, big down the track.

[RodeoRanch]

I love my Galaxy S3 so damn much

[Macros]

I quite satisfied with my little lumia, 8something or other.
My.network have been pestering me for some time telling me I'm due an upgrade.
No thanks