[worry]

Where within the ten books of the MBOTF or ICE's books up to this point could you possibly have derived such a hypothesis?!?!

Hint: that's a rhetorical question.

[Egwene]

...thoughts...

- "If he’d wanted blind obedience, he should have kept me chained." ...like the three dragons???
- "Then came a tapping of a cane upon rock" ... Shadowthrone?! Daddy?!!!!

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

My thoughts on this are heavily influenced by FoD - hence the spoiler. To be explicit:

Following here is a spoiler for FoD and if you choose to read it you'll regret it and want to rip out your eyes. Believe me, I speak for myself. Ye be warned.

Spoiler

My thinking is that Mother Dark is QB mother, based on his visit to the Spire of Andii and what he says to her then. I reckon his father is Draconus, and in FoD, QB is introduced as Arathan, long lost brother/half brother to Spite, Envy and Malice (I think Envy talks about that in MoI. As SE said, you won't recognise QB, and there's not much of the later QB in Arathan. The later QB is a powerful entity though and that could in part come from his Azathanai blood (or whatever they have) from his pa, Draconus.

This post has been edited by Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy: 09 January 2014 - 07:07 PM

[Lady Bliss]

Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy, on 09 January 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

My thoughts on this are heavily influenced by FoD - hence the spoiler. To be explicit:

Following here is a spoiler for FoD and if you choose to read it you'll regret it and want to rip out your eyes. Believe me, I speak for myself. Ye be warned.

Spoiler

My thinking is that Mother Dark is QB mother, based on his visit to the Spire of Andii and what he says to her then. I reckon his father is Draconus, and in FoD, QB is introduced as Arathan, long lost brother/half brother to Spite, Envy and Malice (I think Envy talks about that in MoI. As SE said, you won't recognise QB, and there's not much of the later QB in Arathan. The later QB is a powerful entity though and that could in part come from his Azathanai blood (or whatever they have) from his pa, Draconus.

I'd be interested if you could find the reference to:

Spoiler

I think Envy talks about that in MoI.

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

Lady Bliss, on 09 January 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy, on 09 January 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

My thoughts on this are heavily influenced by FoD - hence the spoiler. To be explicit:

Following here is a spoiler for FoD and if you choose to read it you'll regret it and want to rip out your eyes. Believe me, I speak for myself. Ye be warned.

Spoiler

My thinking is that Mother Dark is QB mother, based on his visit to the Spire of Andii and what he says to her then. I reckon his father is Draconus, and in FoD, QB is introduced as Arathan, long lost brother/half brother to Spite, Envy and Malice (I think Envy talks about that in MoI. As SE said, you won't recognise QB, and there's not much of the later QB in Arathan. The later QB is a powerful entity though and that could in part come from his Azathanai blood (or whatever they have) from his pa, Draconus.

I'd be interested if you could find the reference to:

Spoiler

I think Envy talks about that in MoI.

I'll try and find it- don't expect a reply in the next five minutes though.....

[Abyss]

Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy, on 09 January 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

Lady Bliss, on 09 January 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy, on 09 January 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

My thoughts on this are heavily influenced by FoD - hence the spoiler. To be explicit:

Following here is a spoiler for FoD and if you choose to read it you'll regret it and want to rip out your eyes. Believe me, I speak for myself. Ye be warned.

Spoiler

My thinking is that Mother Dark is QB mother, based on his visit to the Spire of Andii and what he says to her then. I reckon his father is Draconus, and in FoD, QB is introduced as Arathan, long lost brother/half brother to Spite, Envy and Malice (I think Envy talks about that in MoI. As SE said, you won't recognise QB, and there's not much of the later QB in Arathan. The later QB is a powerful entity though and that could in part come from his Azathanai blood (or whatever they have) from his pa, Draconus.

I'd be interested if you could find the reference to:

Spoiler

I think Envy talks about that in MoI.

I'll try and find it- don't expect a reply in the next five minutes though.....

MoI ref is safe, doesn't require spoiler blocks... thinking to move the thread to the General Forum tho'...

Are you referring to Envy's comment about a misguided sibling saving the last Ay?

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

Spoiler

chapter 22 page 931 UK paperback edition from early 2000.

[.....] a misguided sibling who thought he was being kind.[......]

I thought there was another reference where she talks explicitly about her long-lost brother, but that's the best I can do right now.

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

Abyss, on 09 January 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy, on 09 January 2014 - 07:23 PM, said:

Lady Bliss, on 09 January 2014 - 07:15 PM, said:

Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy, on 09 January 2014 - 07:03 PM, said:

My thoughts on this are heavily influenced by FoD - hence the spoiler. To be explicit:

Following here is a spoiler for FoD and if you choose to read it you'll regret it and want to rip out your eyes. Believe me, I speak for myself. Ye be warned.

Spoiler

My thinking is that Mother Dark is QB mother, based on his visit to the Spire of Andii and what he says to her then. I reckon his father is Draconus, and in FoD, QB is introduced as Arathan, long lost brother/half brother to Spite, Envy and Malice (I think Envy talks about that in MoI. As SE said, you won't recognise QB, and there's not much of the later QB in Arathan. The later QB is a powerful entity though and that could in part come from his Azathanai blood (or whatever they have) from his pa, Draconus.

I'd be interested if you could find the reference to:

Spoiler

I think Envy talks about that in MoI.

I'll try and find it- don't expect a reply in the next five minutes though.....

MoI ref is safe, doesn't require spoiler blocks... thinking to move the thread to the General Forum tho'...

Are you referring to Envy's comment about a misguided sibling saving the last Ay?

Hahaha- yes, the same.

[Abyss]

Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy, on 09 January 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

Abyss, on 09 January 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

...
Are you referring to Envy's comment about a misguided sibling saving the last Ay?

Hahaha- yes, the same.

No obvious QB connection there.


...tho' there is his sister's ref to him as a wolf in TB.

[Aptorian]

That sibling would be K'rul.

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

Well, I wouldn't really expect an obvious reference, but I admit to a degree of wishful thinking here.

Is K'rul a sibling of Envy? I have no recollection of that. In light of the family relationship revelations in FoD he should be an uncle of some sort.

[Lady Bliss]

Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy, on 09 January 2014 - 08:43 PM, said:

Well, I wouldn't really expect an obvious reference, but I admit to a degree of wishful thinking here.

Is K'rul a sibling of Envy? I have no recollection of that. In light of the family relationship revelations in FoD he should be an uncle of some sort.

That doesn't sound right. Who was the child of Draconus and OE?

[Aptorian]

The relation is more in terms of ancestry. Like how Draconus, K'rul and Nightchill call each other Brother and sister.

We know that K'rul orchestrated each every "promotion" that took place in MOI and I believe it is hínted at somwhere, maybe not in MOI, that K'rul saved Togg from death and put him inside Toc.

This post has been edited by Maybe Apt: 09 January 2014 - 09:07 PM

[Abyss]

Maybe Apt, on 09 January 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

That sibling would be K'rul.

Don't think so - Envy is talking with Krul when she makes that comment.

And i believe there's another comment to the effect that Envy 'assembled her own team' so to speak.

[worry]

So under this theory is Quick Ben's sister, the religion-hopping one he saves in TBH, actually Malice?

[Egwene]

I thought that reference to the misguided sibling referred to the Nightchill part of Silverfox... ?

[Lady Bliss]

worry, on 09 January 2014 - 09:51 PM, said:

So under this theory is Quick Ben's sister, the religion-hopping one he saves in TBH, actually Malice?

That would be rich. I would like to see Malice still alive.

[Kanese S's]

I'm pretty sure that Envy doesn't mean K'rul when she speaks of a misguided sibling. K'rul, Draconus, and Nightchill refer to each other as siblings, sure, but they're seemingly peers. Envy is not, she's Draconus' kid. It seems far more likely to me that when she refers to a misguided sibling thinking he was being kind, Envy's referring to Arathan.

[Luperci]

Paran, on 28 November 2011 - 03:42 AM, said:

Quote

After a moment his breath caught and he half turned. When he spoke his tone was apologetic. ‘Ah,
Mother, it’s old blood, I don’t deny it. Old and thin.’ He hesitated, and then said, ‘Tell Father I make no
apologies for my choice – why should I? No matter. The two of us did the best I could.’ He grunted in
humour. ‘And you might say the same thing.’
He turned back.
Darkness was knotting into something solid before him. He watched it for a time, saying nothing,
although her presence was palpable, vast in the gloom behind him. ‘If he’d wanted blind obedience, he
should have kept me chained. And you, Mother, you should have kept me a child for ever, there under
your wing.’ He sighed, somewhat shakily. ‘We’re still here, but then, we did what you both wanted. We
almost got them all. The one thing none of us expected was how it would change us.’ He glanced back
again, momentarily. ‘And it has.’
Within the circle before him, the dark form opened crimson eyes. Hoofs cracked like iron axe-blades
on the stone.
He grasped the apparition’s midnight mane and swung on to the beast’s back. ‘’Ware your child,
Mother.’ He drew the horse round, walked it along the ledge a few strides and then back to the mouth of
the tunnel. ‘I’ve been among them for so long now, what you gave me is the barest whisper in the back of
my soul. You offered scant regard for humans, and now it’s all coming down. But I give you this.’ He
swung the horse round. ‘Now it’s our turn. Your son opened the way. And as for his son, well, if he wants
the Sceptre, he’ll have to come and take it.’
Ben Adaephon Delat tightened his grip on the horse’s mane. ‘You do your part, Mother. Let Father
do his, if he’s of a mind to. But it comes down to us. So stand back. Shield your eyes, because I swear to
you, we will blaze! When our backs are against the wall, Mother, you have no idea what we can do.’
He drove his heels into the horse’s flanks. The creature surged forward.
Now, sweet haunt, this could get a little hairy.
The horse reached the ledge. Then out, into the air. And down, plunging into the seething maelstrom.
The presence, breathing darkness, remained in the vast chamber for a time longer. The strewn
scatter of coins and baubles glittered on the black stone.
Then came a tapping of a cane upon rock.

I'm thinking MD and Draconus... chains are associated with Draconus, and for all the bumping uglies that went on between the two, they must have had some offspring, no? Afterall, Envy and Rake have got a few, so it stands to reason. QB also hasn't shown much of an affinity to Kurald Thyrlan, while his "knack" for pulling KG out of a hat is well documented, so I believe that should rule out FL.

Im gonna go on a diff path to this just to speculate, but I'm suprised no one has mentioned Shadowthrones appearance in this monologue at the spire. Aren't both Kellenvad and QB Dal Honese? Hmmm. We know Quick and Ammanas have a history together but how far does that history go? Its mentioned that both Dancer and Kellenvad have traveled the Azath pathways on their goal to ascendancy and we know that time itself cease to exist in the Azath, something to think about maybe.

When Quick is referring to his choice, it reminded me of a slight that Shadowthrone took personally towards Quick and why he has been trying to find him and also explains his outrage in GotM when he appears with Hairlock. To expand upon this I refer to "If he expected blind obedience he should have kept me chained" and also "Were still here, we did what you wanted, we almost got them all." This reminds me of both the dragons and other powerful creatures chained in the realm of shadow and the fight for the throne of Emurlahn. Is it possible that while Ammanas and Dancer were battling for the throne of shadow they unchained one or both of one (think terolast and curdle) of the souls inside Quick to help them kill their opponents. Quick sure does have an extensive knowledge of Soultaken and Dragons, not to mention is fully capable of killing both. For some reason I feel that the intro of Curdle and Terolast were meant to serve a higher purpose other than comedic relief, perhaps giving us a clue into the spliting of a divers soul into a human?

"Ware' ur child mother" ‘I’ve been among them for so long now, what you gave me is the barest whisper in the back of my soul. You offered scant regard for humans, and now it’s all coming down." I think this could be taken in more than one way, perhaps Quick is referring to his Andii heritage and not a direct son of Mother Dark or maybe he is reterring to MD as his mother in a figurative since. Maybe what she gave him that is the barest whisper in his soul is the chance for redemption should he be unchained, but since his long stay with mortal humans he has grown to see himself as one like the body his has possessed. Its been made mention that his has "sucked down" some souls in his day but its never made clear which one has won the battle for his body and mind. Perhaps his childhood story of him and his sister is nothing more than an old recollection of Bens life before his soul shifting, that would explain why he doesn't want his Sis to see his face and realize that is not her brother looking out from his eyes. Also would explain why Fid and a few others felt like Quick was able to change his face when he felt like it and why they didn't trust him to a certain extent (they didn't know if it was the human Quick with his odd habit for playing with dolls like he did when he was a kid or one of the other souls inside him.

‘You do your part, Mother. Let Father do his, if he’s of a mind to." I can't remember if ShadowThrone and Mother Dark were direct allies but we know their is a higher plan that Kellenvad had brewing since his ascendancy and acquiring the throne. "if he's of a mind to" we know Shadowthrone can be a bit weird and it always seems like he has something planned, this could be referring to his part of the unchaining of Quick and whether or not he will hold to his part of the plan.

"Your son opened the way. And as for his son, well, if he wants the Sceptre, he’ll have to come and take it.’ This is obviously referring to Rake and Nimander as to the importance of the Sceptre and why it was at the Spire where the Crippled God's heart had fallen Im not really sure. Ill have to pick up more on my re read.

This is a lot of info to take in and I really need to re read to get the whole scope on Quick but I can't help but think he is referring to Mom and Dad figuratively when he is talking about Shadow Throne and Mother Dark. Its pretty clear that Quick is older than he looks and has many souls inside of him one or two of which have great importance.

I'm 90% sure that the meaning behind the souls of NightChill and Tattersail fighting for control of the body of the Rhivi and the Twin souls of Terolast and Curdle go beyond their own story arcs and pertain to Quick Ben in one way or another.

[worry]

Interesting stuff. Quick correction: don't confuse the Spire and the Spar (of Andii). I do that too sometimes, but QB and the Sceptre are at the latter.