[Kanese S's]

I thought Quick Ben was from Seven Cities, not Dal Hon

[Ukjent]

Think so to.

[Luperci]

worry, on 14 January 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

Interesting stuff. Quick correction: don't confuse the Spire and the Spar (of Andii). I do that too sometimes, but QB and the Sceptre are at the latter.

Damn your right, I knew posting something that vast that late would earn me a few mistakes lol thanks for the correction. As interesting as all of these theories are we really only have clues to piece together nothing definite. Hopefully this will be cleared in Kharkanas because I shutter at the thought of not knowing the answer to this and more about Quick. Don't leave us drifting in the wind Erickson!

[Luperci]

Kanese S, on 14 January 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

I thought Quick Ben was from Seven Cities, not Dal Hon

He is but he is of Dal Hon color, aka Black. I assume that Dal Hon is one of the few places where their were black people so it would be natural to call someone Dal Hon even if they lived in Unta or Malaz.

[Puck]

Kinda, yeah, but QB never lived in Unta or Malaz. He's from Seven Cities, more specifically from Aren, which is nowhere near Unta and iirc the span of skin colours goes from light-ish to very dark all over Seven Cities. Also, Dal Honese tend to be short and wide, while QB is the opposite of both. There's no connection whatsoever except that both Dal Honese and people from Seven Cities happen to have dark skin.

[Luperci]

Puck, on 15 January 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

Kinda, yeah, but QB never lived in Unta or Malaz. He's from Seven Cities, more specifically from Aren, which is nowhere near Unta and iirc the span of skin colours goes from light-ish to very dark all over Seven Cities. Also, Dal Honese tend to be short and wide, while QB is the opposite of both. There's no connection whatsoever except that both Dal Honese and people from Seven Cities happen to have dark skin.

I was just using Unta and Malaz as examples and yes your prob correct. Since the older history and migration of settlements is never discussed we don't really know where the first dark skinned people came from. I just like to assume they started in Dal Honese and migrated outwards from there through trade and possible slavery with the future generations staying in seven cities.

[worry]

You LIKE to assume they migrated outwards through possible slavery?! Man we're dealing with one sick puppy here.

[Kanese S's]

Or, you know, dark skin could be the default, and all the light skinned people could have gotten that way later. Or, you know, since phenotype isn't the same as genotype, they might both happen to have dark skin despite not being remotely related.

[Aptorian]

I am trying to recall, has it ever been hinted at that the black skinned Dal Hon are descended from Andii blood?

[Puck]

It was mentioned in RG that the Dal Honese from the southern jungles (as opposed to the lighter skinned ones from the northern savannah) are so dark they are almost as black as Andii, and can become virtually invisible within their native jungle surroundings. Not sure whether a connection is implied, but I doubt there is one as there are enough real world examples of really dark-skinend indigenous people from jungle environments. That said, the comparison makes sense. I'm not sure whose PoV it was in RG, but when the darkest people you know happen to be the Andii and you are looking for a comparison to what the Dal Honese seem like to you, Andii would come to mind. Their body types are totally different, though. Badan Gruk, for example, is said to be very short even for a human.

In any case, I personally think the connection between Dal Honese and the people of 7C is about as close as that between African people and Australian aborigines.

[Abyss]

Maybe Apt, on 17 January 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

I am trying to recall, has it ever been hinted at that the black skinned Dal Hon are descended from Andii blood?

Puck, on 17 January 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

It was mentioned in RG that the Dal Honese from the southern jungles (as opposed to the lighter skinned ones from the northern savannah) are so dark they are almost as black as Andii, and can become virtually invisible within their native jungle surroundings. Not sure whether a connection is implied, ....

In RG a primarily dark-skinned Dal Honese Bonehunter squad engaged the Letherii Edur and absolutely freaked their shit out because they fought like maniacs, used munitions, and resembled the dread legendary Andii that the Lether born Edur had heard of but never seen.

It was a great moment. The squad was a collection of utter misfits and crazies and in typical Malazan fashion when a fight hit they went all kinds of badass.

[Egwene]

I am still wondering if Shadowthrone is Quick Ben's father.

There is a dialogue in one of the books (tCG I think) where Cotillion points out to Shadowthrone something along the lines of him (Shadowthrone) having trouble with his son. I thought at the time that it might refer to Quick Ben in some way. They do seem very alike in many ways... irritating... know-it all... ingenious... even to being part of a team of two.

Then there is the sound of the cane at the end of Quick's chat with Mother Dark... seems to me to be quite poignant that Shadowthrone should be witnessing the encounter...


What do you think? Any takers?!

[Kanese S's]

I suppose there's no reason that Quick Ben couldn't be both Seven Cities and part Dal Honese or something. And he is part of a team of two, with his partner in shenanigans being a highly skilled assassin... but I dunno... it might not mean much, but he's never referred to as Dal Honese that I can recall... whereas Kellanved/Ammanas is, I think...

This post has been edited by Kanese S's: 18 January 2014 - 10:19 AM

[Puck]

Doesn't Cots say something about ST's 'child', not 'son'? And ST's 'child' is the empire.

We also get some glimpses of QB's family in tBH. Granted, there's nothing that says he could not have been planted there by someone else, but somehow I feel like whatever QB is, it is older than ST&Cots.

[HoosierDaddy]

"If you would fear... fear for your own child."

Bonehunters, MMPB 1199.

[Egwene]

HoosierDaddy, on 18 January 2014 - 11:27 AM, said:

"If you would fear... fear for your own child."

Bonehunters, MMPB 1199.

Thanks for digging that up, HoosierDaddy and yes, I would agree with Puck that 'child' would refer to the Empire rather than a son or daughter.

Having said that, I don't think that this is the quote I was remembering. I thought there was a conversation in tCG with Cotillion being the one making the comment. I'll see if I can find it...

EDIT: no joy so far. Maybe someone with a Kindle can help?! Don't they have a search function? If you could have a look maybe under Cotillion... should be a lot quicker to check that way. Thanks :-)

This post has been edited by Egwene: 20 January 2014 - 10:45 AM

[Luperci]

Kanese S, on 17 January 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

I suppose there's no reason that Quick Ben couldn't be both Seven Cities and part Dal Honese or something. And he is part of a team of two, with his partner in shenanigans being a highly skilled assassin... but I dunno... it might not mean much, but he's never referred to as Dal Honese that I can recall... whereas Kellanved/Ammanas is, I think...

I wasn't trying to imply that he is from Dal Honese, just that he is of dark skinned descent like those from Dal Hon although he is lighter skinned than someone from South Dal Hon my point was just trying to make a connection btw Kellanved and Quick. If were comparing the spread of Dark skinned people in the Malazan books to our history then we have to assume that at one point they all resided on one continent and as they spread so too did their variance in skin pigment. Those in the N of Dal Honese are lighter than the ones in the S jungle. Those from Napan have a blueish tint to their skin, and those in 7 cities are a mix of all. Even if I'm wrong here we're getting way off subject and missing the bigger picture. IMO one of the soul's inside Quick has beaten the rest for control over his body and mind but Ben the person is obviously going to show through every once in a while (hence maybe the old story of him playing with the dolls and causing trouble while being chased by his sister). Its also weird why he wouldn't want his sister to see his face, maybe they just have been apart too long or maybe because his sister might take one look in his eyes and realize that isn't her brother who is staring back at her. We know how paranoid he is about people getting to close and figuring him out but why is this? Why would he be so hesistant about Rake but have no problem showing up in front of ShadowThrone with Hairlock just to spite him.

[Mrs Savagely Wishy Washy]

FoD Spoiler

Spoiler

After reading a bit further in FoD, I don't think anymore that Mother Dark is Arathan's mum, but I still cling on to the idea that Arathan may later become Quick Ben. For what it's worth, SE says we don't recognise QB in FoD, I take this as a hint that he must be around at the time these events take place. By the same logic I think Shadowthrone can't be his dad because QB is way older than Kellanved/Ammanas - unless ST turns up in the Kharkanas trilogy already.

[Kanese S's]

Ronin, on 23 January 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

Kanese S, on 17 January 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

I suppose there's no reason that Quick Ben couldn't be both Seven Cities and part Dal Honese or something. And he is part of a team of two, with his partner in shenanigans being a highly skilled assassin... but I dunno... it might not mean much, but he's never referred to as Dal Honese that I can recall... whereas Kellanved/Ammanas is, I think...

I wasn't trying to imply that he is from Dal Honese, just that he is of dark skinned descent like those from Dal Hon although he is lighter skinned than someone from South Dal Hon my point was just trying to make a connection btw Kellanved and Quick. If were comparing the spread of Dark skinned people in the Malazan books to our history then we have to assume that at one point they all resided on one continent and as they spread so too did their variance in skin pigment. Those in the N of Dal Honese are lighter than the ones in the S jungle. Those from Napan have a blueish tint to their skin, and those in 7 cities are a mix of all. Even if I'm wrong here we're getting way off subject and missing the bigger picture. IMO one of the soul's inside Quick has beaten the rest for control over his body and mind but Ben the person is obviously going to show through every once in a while (hence maybe the old story of him playing with the dolls and causing trouble while being chased by his sister). Its also weird why he wouldn't want his sister to see his face, maybe they just have been apart too long or maybe because his sister might take one look in his eyes and realize that isn't her brother who is staring back at her. We know how paranoid he is about people getting to close and figuring him out but why is this? Why would he be so hesistant about Rake but have no problem showing up in front of ShadowThrone with Hairlock just to spite him.

No, we don't.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

It's been mentioned by others but after reading FoD my feeling towards QB's use of "mother" is that it's probably in more of a figurative sense, rather like

Spoiler

The three Purake brothers not actually being MD's biological sons.

Even so, I take the "scant regard to humans" to mean that there's definitely some non-human blood (or a soul) in there, and given the Spar of Andii location it's probably Tiste Andii.

As an aside, that is one of my favourite scenes in the series.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 26 February 2014 - 09:59 AM