[Cyphon]

What does, 'make my head school.' mean?

[Abyss]

...i will not make the obvious fat joke i will not i will NOT will NOT...

But what's this about a concordance?

[D'iversify]

QuickTidal, on 29 March 2011 - 02:36 PM, said:

Cyphon88, on 28 March 2011 - 12:34 PM, said:

There must be something wrong with me that I salivate at the thought of the size of that tome.

Nothing wrong with you. I feel the same way. LOL! We're all so hopeless.

As long as I have the time off to read it in one go, and considering how quickly I went through the last half of The Crippled God, I'm also far from averse to a chunky tome, especially considering how long it has been in the writing.

[Werthead]

Abyss, on 07 April 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

But what's this about a concordance?

The two people who run the Westeros forum have written a book called THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE. When GRRM has finished ADWD, he'll edit the world book and finish it off with some new and exclusive information, and it should come out next year (touch wood). It's basically similar to THE WORLD OF ROBERT JORDAN'S THE WHEEL OF TIME (or SE's oft-promised MALAZAN ENCYCLOPEDIA) except decent and with some great artwork in it. There's going to be character guides, a much more detailed history of the Seven Kingdoms than anything we've seen before, more new maps (including one of Qarth and the Jade Sea region) and possibly some maps and outlines of the major castles. Ted Nasmith's castle artwork will also appear in it.

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 08 April 2011 - 07:36 PM, said:

Abyss, on 07 April 2011 - 02:34 PM, said:

But what's this about a concordance?

The two people who run the Westeros forum have written a book called THE WORLD OF ICE AND FIRE. When GRRM has finished ADWD, he'll edit the world book and finish it off with some new and exclusive information, and it should come out next year (touch wood). It's basically similar to THE WORLD OF ROBERT JORDAN'S THE WHEEL OF TIME...

Interesting, but I always dislike when these are released before a series is actually finished.

[busy monster]

Werthead, on 28 March 2011 - 11:26 PM, said:

ADWD will definitely be in two volumes in the UK. This latest news makes a two-volume American paperback also more likely.

I'd be more concerned about the possibility of a two-volume hardcover. Based on GRRM's comments in that LJ thread, it sounds like ADWD getting this big was not on the agenda when Bantam announced the release date, and he's rather bemused this has happened, especially with more stuff to come (hopefully not too much). So far there is no indication that Bantam are seriously considering this, but the size of the book is extraordinary, especially if it comes in at say 1650 or even 1700 MS pages when it's fully done.

On the one hand, a single-volume hardcover of that size will satisfy more people: after the six-year wait getting a book some 60-65% longer than AFFC will alleviate some concerns. On the other, profit margins will be tighter for a book of that size, and to get the book down to a comfortable page count will involve tight margins and a small font. On those grounds, splitting the book in two may be more attractive, but they WILL get a storm of protest over the move, especially if they also split the ebook (which has no publishing constraints). Voyager would also likely get a lot of abuse if they tried to charge people £25 twice. If the gap between the two volumes was any more than a month, that would also be hugely unpopular.

I think it's more likely they'll wait until GRRM is done and try to cram the whole thing into one hardcover, with a crowbar and masking tape if necessary, and then use its giganormous size as a selling point. Depending on the final size, this thing could come in at 25% longer than THE WAY OF KINGS and THE WISE MAN'S FEAR, even more over THE CRIPPLED GOD.

Yeah, if that happens I'll just wipe my hands of the entire fiasco and not read anything else by him. AFFC didn't hold my interest that well, and the fact that it takes him forever to write a book...

Oh well.

[Ceda Cicero]

This post is mainly me sending up the bat signal to Wert next time he's around, but others with opinions feel free to sound off.

So it's April 20. July 12 is 82 days away. That's still a considerable amount of time, I suppose, for everything that goes into editing and publishing and post-production or whatever the technical terms are. But I also wonder if we're starting to cut it close.

Basically I'm wondering, can anyone (again, Wert would probably be most qualified here) postulate a hard deadline for when Martin would have to hand in the last 10% or whatever of the manuscript in order to make the July 12 date? I realize the publishers can rush things when they want. I realize they likely will for ADwD. I also realize that a bulk of the material Martin has already turned in has been polished, edited and revised countless times already, as some of it's been around since 2005-6. All told, is there any way we could speculate with some degree of accuracy, "If GRRM doesn't turn in the final chapters by _____ XX, 2011, there's almost no way they'll be able to make the July 12 release."

Watching episode 1 of the HBO series has me looking forward to this book now more than ever. The characters and places we're going to see in this one, IMO, just has me really excited. I don't care if it's endless pages of Dany fretting over her dragons and whining about men, Jon pining for Ygritte and Tyrion drinking and banging hookers (okay, okay I'm exaggerating..), I'll just be happy to see that triumvirate again. Not to mention the new POVs we're getting - Theon (well, new-ish.. it's been like 200 years) and Melisandre, FTW.

[QuickTidal]

Maybe it's the premiere of the HBO show but...

I just wanted to say that I am getting SERIOUSLY fucking pumped for ADWD! Like seriously.

It's funny how even a bad taste in my mouth like AFFC isn't dampening my slavering fanboygasms about the 5th book.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

You know I never quite understand the reception for AFFC. Sure, it's not on par with the previous books, sure some of the most iconic characters ddn't appear,sure it had a bit too many POVs but I really wouldn't call it a horrible book.

[QuickTidal]

Neocount Cicero, on 20 April 2011 - 04:04 PM, said:

This post is mainly me sending up the bat signal to Wert next time he's around, but others with opinions feel free to sound off.

So it's April 20. July 12 is 82 days away. That's still a considerable amount of time, I suppose, for everything that goes into editing and publishing and post-production or whatever the technical terms are. But I also wonder if we're starting to cut it close.

Basically I'm wondering, can anyone (again, Wert would probably be most qualified here) postulate a hard deadline for when Martin would have to hand in the last 10% or whatever of the manuscript in order to make the July 12 date? I realize the publishers can rush things when they want. I realize they likely will for ADwD. I also realize that a bulk of the material Martin has already turned in has been polished, edited and revised countless times already, as some of it's been around since 2005-6. All told, is there any way we could speculate with some degree of accuracy, "If GRRM doesn't turn in the final chapters by _____ XX, 2011, there's almost no way they'll be able to make the July 12 release."

Watching episode 1 of the HBO series has me looking forward to this book now more than ever. The characters and places we're going to see in this one, IMO, just has me really excited. I don't care if it's endless pages of Dany fretting over her dragons and whining about men, Jon pining for Ygritte and Tyrion drinking and banging hookers (okay, okay I'm exaggerating..), I'll just be happy to see that triumvirate again. Not to mention the new POVs we're getting - Theon (well, new-ish.. it's been like 200 years) and Melisandre, FTW.

Being in the printing industry I can answer this for you brother.

Basically books like this are printed in a way called PERFECT BOUND (as opposed to SADDLE STITCH which is how magazines are printed with a staple through the spine), and perfect binding a book such as this means it is done in (likely) at most 32 page sections (I say 32Pagers due to the quality of the paper the book will need, as larger web presses that can handle 48 pagers use thinner flimsier paper and are not ideal for bookwork of this calibre), each 32 page section is (when they are all printed and folded) then laid up in the proper order and glued into the hardback cover and spine spread together. Each 32 page section is direct numbering, meaning they go in order 1-16, 17-32 is the front and back of the first form to print..and so on... in order Assembly and gluing happens LAST though, so feasibly they could be (right now or in the near future after editing) printing the majority of the book that's been handed in (in 32 page sections/forms) and if Martin is still working on certain sections they simply won't yet print those specific forms....and then when he DOES finish all of it, they will only then need to print those missing forms. So even if he's working on like a 100 pages still, he could hand them in for editing and printing with a week or two to go and the publisher would still get the books out on time as all that remains is to assemble the already printed forms into order with the latest printed ones and glue them. The glue dries in a day tops for the quantity.

So yeah, totally do-able. I'll guarantee that the majority of the manuscript that's been handed in (we saw that pic of the lady holding it at the publishing house) is either still being edited (likely) and will be getting on press in May probably....after that it's just a waiting game for Martin to get them the remainder which they could bang off in a few shifts at the printer.

Hope that helps.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 21 April 2011 - 03:47 PM

[QuickTidal]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 21 April 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

You know I never quite understand the reception for AFFC. Sure, it's not on par with the previous books, sure some of the most iconic characters ddn't appear,sure it had a bit too many POVs but I really wouldn't call it a horrible book.

Yeah, I don't hate it...but it's certainly my least fave and I just remember feeling let down after the 5 year wait.

[Cobbles]

QuickTidal, on 21 April 2011 - 03:45 PM, said:

Being in the printing industry I can answer this for you brother.

Basically books like this are printed in a way called PERFECT BOUND (as opposed to SADDLE STITCH which is how magazines are printed with a staple through the spine), and perfect binding a book such as this means it is done in (likely) at most 32 page sections (I say 32Pagers due to the quality of the paper the book will need, as larger web presses that can handle 48 pagers use thinner flimsier paper and are not ideal for bookwork of this calibre), each 32 page section is (when they are all printed and folded) then laid up in the proper order and glued into the hardback cover and spine spread together. Each 32 page section is direct numbering, meaning they go in order 1-16, 17-32 is the front and back of the first form to print..and so on... in order Assembly and gluing happens LAST though, so feasibly they could be (right now or in the near future after editing) printing the majority of the book that's been handed in (in 32 page sections/forms) and if Martin is still working on certain sections they simply won't yet print those specific forms....and then when he DOES finish all of it, they will only then need to print those missing forms. So even if he's working on like a 100 pages still, he could hand them in for editing and printing with a week or two to go and the publisher would still get the books out on time as all that remains is to assemble the already printed forms into order with the latest printed ones and glue them. The glue dries in a day tops for the quantity.

So yeah, totally do-able. I'll guarantee that the majority of the manuscript that's been handed in (we saw that pic of the lady holding it at the publishing house) is either still being edited (likely) and will be getting on press in May probably....after that it's just a waiting game for Martin to get them the remainder which they could bang off in a few shifts at the printer.

Hope that helps.

Wouldn't that be risky, though? I mean, you're talking about printing thousands and thousands of copies of a 90% finished product. What if there's a delay? You're going to sit on a warehouse full of incomplete books. Real costs would run up just storing the stuff. With GRRM's track record, that might be a risky business decision.

[End of Disc One]

Bauchelain the Evil, on 21 April 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

You know I never quite understand the reception for AFFC. Sure, it's not on par with the previous books, sure some of the most iconic characters ddn't appear,sure it had a bit too many POVs but I really wouldn't call it a horrible book.

A lot of it has to do with expectations. We waited 5 years for the weakest book in the series?

[QuickTidal]

Cobbles, on 21 April 2011 - 08:17 PM, said:

Wouldn't that be risky, though? I mean, you're talking about printing thousands and thousands of copies of a 90% finished product. What if there's a delay? You're going to sit on a warehouse full of incomplete books. Real costs would run up just storing the stuff. With GRRM's track record, that might be a risky business decision.

Nope, Storing it costs next to nothing. At the old trade printers I worked at (a place where they printed some books) there was stuff that would sit on skids on the floor for months, no problems. The reason? Most stuff doesn't sit, so when it needs to sit, they account room for it. Printers take into account that shit can go wrong, and there is normally space allotted for such problems. If they didn't they'd be a pretty shitty printer. There is always a huge chunk of floor space empty for such occasions. It therefore costs them nothing to have it sit...trust me, my old company who would let stuff sit if need be wouldn't have paid a damn dime extra to do so.

That said, if there were extra costs to be incurred the publisher would have to pony up the dough...and to be honest compared to the amount of money they are going to make from the finished product...ANY extra cost incurred at the printers is going to be petty cash nothings. The odds that any extra cost would be incurred are slim to none through as I said above it wouldn't cost to store it.

Not risky at all. The industry is set up and predicated on the fact that A LOT of time companies order stuff and can't pay their bill for it (this happens ALL the time) so the printed matter sits and sits until they are able to pay.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 26 April 2011 - 01:09 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 21 April 2011 - 03:46 PM, said:

Bauchelain the Evil, on 21 April 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

You know I never quite understand the reception for AFFC. Sure, it's not on par with the previous books, sure some of the most iconic characters ddn't appear,sure it had a bit too many POVs but I really wouldn't call it a horrible book.

Yeah, I don't hate it...but it's certainly my least fave and I just remember feeling let down after the 5 year wait.

End of Disc One, on 25 April 2011 - 06:32 PM, said:

...
A lot of it has to do with expectations. We waited 5 years for the weakest book in the series?

Yep.

And while i'm firmly in the GRRM-is-not-your-bitch camp, the response was only exacerbated by the whole 'this is only half a book, i have the other half right here. RIGHT here. Right HERE. Almost done. Just need to polish it off. Trust me it will all be made worthwhile. RIGHT HERE I SWEAR oooo look football!' thing.

And all that said FoC still debuted at #1 on the NYT list.

[Werthead]

Bantam have thankfully eliminated the 'split book' possibility. ADWD will definitely be released in one volume (in hardcover).

As for the rest, QT has pretty much nailed it down. Some printers I've heard from have said they could print half a million copies of ADWD in about two weeks if they really went for it, which puts it well into June before the final part of the book needs to be submitted. GRRM's hand-in date is apparently in mid-to-late May, however, allowing for final typesetting before printing.

[Slick Mongoose]

He's done.

[Ceda Cicero]

Slick Mongoose, on 27 April 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:

He's done.

BOOM!!!!!!!!!

[QuickTidal]

Slick Mongoose, on 27 April 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:

He's done.

Giggety!

[Cobbles]

Slick Mongoose, on 27 April 2011 - 04:35 PM, said:

He's done.

Is he starting on the new one then?