[Illuyankas]

I thought it was pretty fucking sweet, really. If I had one complaint it'd be

Spoiler

letting your human extremely fragile tornado-allergic dad to go back to save the fucking dog, let alone there being enough time before the twister got him for a normal human being to be able to get Jonathon back to shelter in time, seriously

That whole segment was melodramatic enough to throw my GF totally out of the movie and was the worst part for me.

Absolutely seconding Quick's first spoiler'd point, though.

Spoiler

Making it an obviously open secret for everyone who counts - Perry absolutely does and the other two staffers almost certainly know too - just gets rid of so much awful plot nonsense on top of the whole glasses thing.

[Illuyankas]

Zod: Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, is my reaction to his acting. Adequate, would not have minded many other actors in that role. ALSO HE NEVER TELLS ANYONE TO KNEEL AT ALL, BAN THIS SICK HERESY

Peeps:

Spoiler

If you mean the other two Kryptonians with Zod, there's a nice fight scene with Superman against whoever the female Zodite is and there's a really big CGI guy fully encased in the armour who appears to fight with the woman and then is never seen again, which was pretty explicitly a reference to those two, and also a waste. We needed more giant CGI dude.

[Illuyankas]

Don't worry, Lursa or whoever, the second in command had far more of a role, a good chunk of screentime, and was part of some of my favourite action sequences. It's just that the other one was a literal non-entity.

[McLovin]

Which is funny, because the mute man's name in Superman II was Non, iirc.

Anyhoos, I read an article off CNN that says the movie gets Superman wrong because

Spoiler

he kills Zod.

I personally thought that was OK, and liked his immediate reaction to having done it. What did you all think about it?

[Illuyankas]

It made a lot more sense to me about his reaction cause I used to read comics a lot which is kind of cheating on the whole background and motivation thing, but I'm just going to steal another dude's reaction to that bit:

Quote

That other thing that’s a SPOILER – It will probably be the most controversial thing in the movie, and I could probably do a whole post on it. So let’s just pretend I’m talking about Batman filming a porno with a goat. Basically, if you’re going to have Batman fuck a goat, and you want to make it clear Batman absolutely doesn’t want to fuck a goat, it might be a good idea to establish beforehand Batman’s strong feelings about goat-fucking, and not have Batman appear to be totally fine in the scene immediately following the goat-fucking. I think I’ve made myself clear.

This post has been edited by Illuyankas: 18 June 2013 - 02:08 PM

[QuickTidal]

Zod's second in command (and wife in other mythos) is Faora (and yeah, Anje Trauje was absolutely 100% badass, she killed that character) and she is almost better than Zod.

Spoiler

And there is a fairly big knock down brawl between Supes, and Faora and Nom (big armored guy)...and it's almost a better fight than the finale fight between Zod and Supes, just for inventive fighting.
As to Supes killing Zod, in this version of the origin it works, and I absolutely loved how it was handled. A very green Superman who hasn't had a battle of any kind before is faced with a man who is equal to his power or stronger who says he won't stop (nothing to lose no that his purpose is gone), and it's all Supes can do to keep him still so his eyebeams don't smoke the family in the corner...and he makes a terribly agonizing choice...not only is he killing someone, but he's killing the last person who remains of his race leaving himself essentially alone. He truly does choose humanity in that moment. I love his cry out and need to weep into Lois' hug after that. He's committed murder to the last of his species. I thought it worked in spades, because I have a feeling it's going to play a BIG part of building Kal-El into the person he will eventually be. The person who finds another way. The person who doesn't kill. I think the reason that Goyer & Nolan wrote that choice into this film was so that it could be a defining moment in his growth as a defender of not just humans, but anyone who needs help. Like Bruce Wayne witnessing his parents death at the hands of Joe Chill in an alleyway is the catalyst to what made him become the hero he became...my guess is that Goyer and Nolan intend a similar moment here with Superman, the catalyst to the hero he WILL become, and not the one he is right now.

Just my guess on the back end of that scene. And yeah, I didn't bat an eyelash at Superman killing Zod simply because of his post-kill reaction. It literally wrenched his heart out to have been forced into that. And that felt almost more real than anything else that summoned emotions in the film.

The other scene I adored was Larry Fishburne's Perry White in the Metropolis destruction scene when Jenny Olsen (yep, they gender flipped Jimmy Olsen, and it works in spades!) is trapped, and he's basically standing there, covered in dust and without uttering a word ois telling her "Don't look there...don't look at that destruction...look here. Into my eyes. I'm here with you. I'm not going anywhere. I'm here." ....sweet jeebus hell I got glossy eyed at that. Never has Perry White come across as both a hard-edged newspaper editor AND a sympathetic hero as well. That was deftly handled on Goyer, Noaln AND Snyder's part. What a scene!

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 18 June 2013 - 02:55 PM

[Imperial Historian]

QuickTidal, on 18 June 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Zod's second in command (and wife in other mythos) is Faora (and yeah, Anje Trauje was absolutely 100% badass, she killed that character) and she is almost better than Zod.

Spoiler

And there is a fairly big knock down brawl between Supes, and Faora and Nom (big armored guy)...and it's almost a better fight than the finale fight between Zod and Supes, just for inventive fighting.
As to Supes killing Zod, in this version of the origin it works, and I absolutely loved how it was handled. A very green Superman who hasn't had a battle of any kind before is faced with a man who is equal to his power or stronger who says he won't stop (nothing to lose no that his purpose is gone), and it's all Supes can do to keep him still so his eyebeams don't smoke the family in the corner...and he makes a terribly agonizing choice...not only is he killing someone, but he's killing the last person who remains of his race leaving himself essentially alone. He truly does choose humanity in that moment. I love his cry out and need to weep into Lois' hug after that. He's committed murder to the last of his species. I thought it worked in spades, because I have a feeling it's going to play a BIG part of building Kal-El into the person he will eventually be. The person who finds another way. The person who doesn't kill. I think the reason that Goyer & Nolan wrote that choice into this film was so that it could be a defining moment in his growth as a defender of not just humans, but anyone who needs help. Like Bruce Wayne witnessing his parents death at the hands of Joe Chill in an alleyway is the catalyst to what made him become the hero he became...my guess is that Goyer and Nolan intend a similar moment here with Superman, the catalyst to the hero he WILL become, and not the one he is right now.

Just my guess on the back end of that scene. And yeah, I didn't bat an eyelash at Superman killing Zod simply because of his post-kill reaction. It literally wrenched his heart out to have been forced into that. And that felt almost more real than anything else that summoned emotions in the film.

The other scene I adored was Larry Fishburne's Perry White in the Metropolis destruction scene when Jenny Olsen (yep, they gender flipped Jimmy Olsen, and it works in spades!) is trapped, and he's basically standing there, covered in dust and without uttering a word ois telling her "Don't look there...don't look at that destruction...look here. Into my eyes. I'm here with you. I'm not going anywhere. I'm here." ....sweet jeebus hell I got glossy eyed at that. Never has Perry White come across as both a hard-edged newspaper editor AND a sympathetic hero as well. That was deftly handled on Goyer, Noaln AND Snyder's part. What a scene!

Spoiler

So regarding the whole superman killing Zod scene, did that family Zod was trying to laser eye survive? My first impression of that scene was that superman killed Zod to save the family, and was distraught about having to kill Zod, whilst my friend maintains that Zod killed the family, and superman killed Zod as a result, and was distraught about the death of the family. Were there any shots of the family afterwards? I'm not sure which interpretation I prefer, but I think superman killed Zod to save a family works better thematically

[Illuyankas]

You can see them in the background in the shot of their backs after that moment, they're fine, your friend is blind.

[polishgenius]

Regarding that one thing:

Spoiler

I don't think Superman killing Zod is a problem in itself. However, the rush to wrap up the movie asap once the big fight had finished did cause some problems with that. I think he was meant to be cut up over the killing - he certainly gave a big ol' NOOOOOO! and that - but it just wasn't explored and could easily give the impression that he didn't care that much, especially if one doesn't know his comic history with Zod. It was the same thing with the casual death toll - we know, coz Goyer told us, that that wasn't accidental on the filmmakers' part but it didn't come across that they intended people to be dying there. Sometimes, you need an aftermath.
As I say, I hope the sequel covers it.

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 18 June 2013 - 03:41 PM, said:

Regarding that one thing:

Spoiler

I don't think Superman killing Zod is a problem in itself. However, the rush to wrap up the movie asap once the big fight had finished did cause some problems with that. I think he was meant to be cut up over the killing - he certainly gave a big ol' NOOOOOO! and that - but it just wasn't explored and could easily give the impression that he didn't care that much, especially if one doesn't know his comic history with Zod. It was the same thing with the casual death toll - we know, coz Goyer told us, that that wasn't accidental on the filmmakers' part but it didn't come across that they intended people to be dying there. Sometimes, you need an aftermath.
As I say, I hope the sequel covers it.

Indeed.

Spoiler

I think it's going to be one of those things that isn't going to be a "full picture" till the trilogy is done (as at this point we are still kind of speculating)...again, in the same vein as the Dark Knight series of Bruce setting out to make Batman a symbol, and that not coming full circle as a true ideal (AKA Batman, minus Bruce Wayne) till the last scene in TDKR with John Blake (Robin) presumably taking up the cowl himself and fulfilling the making of a heroic symbol as opposed to just a hero.

[Macros]

Just saw it.
meh, average imo.

loved the backstory, Kevin Costner was good.
once it got supermany it went down hill rapidly,never thought remotely he was in danger, fight scenes were too long and too choppy (i know it supposed to be super fast because its superman but it gives me a headache). Put in mind of the awful over played fight in matrix...three?

disapointed after my excitement.

[dktorode]

Absolutely loved it.


Only thing i didnt like was

Spoiler

Supes losing his power on board their ship because of its atmosphere yet he can function fine in the vacuum of space.
So supes cant leave the proximity of earths "rich" environment now?
What happened to them saying he has been soaking up the suns radiation for 33 years..?
So all someone needs to do is lure him into a room with a kryptonian environment and he is normal"?

Hope they simply pretend this plot device never existed in sequels, as its rather silly.

[A Demon Llama!]

Movie was entertaining, nothing fantastic and unecessarily long. The whole 40 min of the movie could have been removed and it would made absolutely no difference. We all see it happen and then its told again to the Superman by The Gladiator, and I'm pretty sure Zod said it all again at one point. Would have made the movie less drawn out. Also I like how the woman just teleports to wherever Superman is.

[MTS]

Macros, on 18 June 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

Just saw it.
meh, average imo.

loved the backstory, Kevin Costner was good.
once it got supermany it went down hill rapidly,never thought remotely he was in danger, fight scenes were too long and too choppy (i know it supposed to be super fast because its superman but it gives me a headache). Put in mind of the awful over played fight in matrix...three?

disapointed after my excitement.

My thoughts exactly.

No tension or danger + super long fight scenes = boring movie. The parts where Superman is wandering around trying to figure out who he is were by far the best parts of the movie, and it's no coincidence that those parts were almost entirely the ones we were shown in the trailer, and so I was disappointed (though I probably should have realised).

I think there's two ways to make a Superman movie that is engaging, and they didn't do either. You either make him vulnerable (in which case you need Kryptonite) or you put him up against something he cannot fight. That's why the Joker's threat of murdering people until Batman gave himself up worked so well in The Dark Knight, because it made Batman helpless, and how he struggled and responded to that dilemma made it a really interesting movie, and far eclipsed the more prosaic plots of Batman Begins and The Dark Knight Rises. Why couldn't the movie have been about something similar? I thought they were going in a similar direction when

Spoiler

Superman saves the busload of kids and then the mother of the bully flips out, but then they kind of just leave it there. Superman says that his father's greatest fear was that if humanity found out who he really was then they'd reject him. But they don't. At all. Lois Lane and Perry White are ludicrously calm when they're discussing the possibility of aliens living on earth. So why not make a movie about humanity rejecting Superman? It would be a far more interesting picture than Superman throwing people and being thrown through buildings for an hour, which is what we got, as it would leave Superman truly bereft of both his Kryptonian and human connections.

This post has been edited by MTS: 01 July 2013 - 07:04 AM

[dktorode]

MTS, on 01 July 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Spoiler

Superman saves the busload of kids and then the mother of the bully flips out, but then they kind of just leave it there. Superman says that his father's greatest fear was that if humanity found out who he really was then they'd reject him. But they don't. At all. Lois Lane and Perry White are ludicrously calm when they're discussing the possibility of aliens living on earth. So why not make a movie about humanity rejecting Superman? It would be a far more interesting picture than Superman throwing people and being thrown through buildings for an hour, which is what we got, as it would leave Superman truly bereft of both his Kryptonian and human connections.

maybe the problem is you dont pay enough attention to the movies you watch.

Spoiler

The mother that flips out clearly puts the bus incident down to "an act of god". Pa Kent smiles and walks out after realising clark hasn't been "outed" .

And as far as Lois and Perry being calm...what do you expect professional journalists to do?...run around waving their arms in the air screaming "The aliens are coming, the aliens are coming!!"?
And you said it yourself...they are discussing the "possibility of aliens on earth.
Come now...people do that all the time.

[MTS]

dktorode, on 01 July 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

MTS, on 01 July 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Spoiler

Superman saves the busload of kids and then the mother of the bully flips out, but then they kind of just leave it there. Superman says that his father's greatest fear was that if humanity found out who he really was then they'd reject him. But they don't. At all. Lois Lane and Perry White are ludicrously calm when they're discussing the possibility of aliens living on earth. So why not make a movie about humanity rejecting Superman? It would be a far more interesting picture than Superman throwing people and being thrown through buildings for an hour, which is what we got, as it would leave Superman truly bereft of both his Kryptonian and human connections.

maybe the problem is you dont pay enough attention to the movies you watch.

Spoiler

The mother that flips out clearly puts the bus incident down to "an act of god". Pa Kent smiles and walks out after realising clark hasn't been "outed" .

And as far as Lois and Perry being calm...what do you expect professional journalists to do?...run around waving their arms in the air screaming "The aliens are coming, the aliens are coming!!"?
And you said it yourself...they are discussing the "possibility of aliens on earth.
Come now...people do that all the time.

Spoiler

I know what happened in the scene. That's what I mean however, they left it there as 'act of God' when they could have done a lot more with it. The Kents facing outright hostility from other residents of Smallville for instance, other than the regular stuff any weird kid would have received (which we see).

[dktorode]

MTS, on 01 July 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

dktorode, on 01 July 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

MTS, on 01 July 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Spoiler

Superman saves the busload of kids and then the mother of the bully flips out, but then they kind of just leave it there. Superman says that his father's greatest fear was that if humanity found out who he really was then they'd reject him. But they don't. At all. Lois Lane and Perry White are ludicrously calm when they're discussing the possibility of aliens living on earth. So why not make a movie about humanity rejecting Superman? It would be a far more interesting picture than Superman throwing people and being thrown through buildings for an hour, which is what we got, as it would leave Superman truly bereft of both his Kryptonian and human connections.

maybe the problem is you dont pay enough attention to the movies you watch.

Spoiler

The mother that flips out clearly puts the bus incident down to "an act of god". Pa Kent smiles and walks out after realising clark hasn't been "outed" .

And as far as Lois and Perry being calm...what do you expect professional journalists to do?...run around waving their arms in the air screaming "The aliens are coming, the aliens are coming!!"?
And you said it yourself...they are discussing the "possibility of aliens on earth.
Come now...people do that all the time.

Spoiler

I know what happened in the scene. That's what I mean however, they left it there as 'act of God' when they could have done a lot more with it. The Kents facing outright hostility from other residents of Smallville for instance, other than the regular stuff any weird kid would have received (which we see).

I dont think the point of the flash backs was to delve so deep into any of that... it was meant to be snippets not an entire fleshed out history of his childhood...come now. be realistic the movie is already 2hrs +

[MTS]

dktorode, on 01 July 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

MTS, on 01 July 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

dktorode, on 01 July 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

MTS, on 01 July 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Spoiler

Superman saves the busload of kids and then the mother of the bully flips out, but then they kind of just leave it there. Superman says that his father's greatest fear was that if humanity found out who he really was then they'd reject him. But they don't. At all. Lois Lane and Perry White are ludicrously calm when they're discussing the possibility of aliens living on earth. So why not make a movie about humanity rejecting Superman? It would be a far more interesting picture than Superman throwing people and being thrown through buildings for an hour, which is what we got, as it would leave Superman truly bereft of both his Kryptonian and human connections.

maybe the problem is you dont pay enough attention to the movies you watch.

Spoiler

The mother that flips out clearly puts the bus incident down to "an act of god". Pa Kent smiles and walks out after realising clark hasn't been "outed" .

And as far as Lois and Perry being calm...what do you expect professional journalists to do?...run around waving their arms in the air screaming "The aliens are coming, the aliens are coming!!"?
And you said it yourself...they are discussing the "possibility of aliens on earth.
Come now...people do that all the time.

Spoiler

I know what happened in the scene. That's what I mean however, they left it there as 'act of God' when they could have done a lot more with it. The Kents facing outright hostility from other residents of Smallville for instance, other than the regular stuff any weird kid would have received (which we see).

I dont think the point of the flash backs was to delve so deep into any of that... it was meant to be snippets not an entire fleshed out history of his childhood...come now. be realistic the movie is already 2hrs +

Oh I know that. The movie was too long as it is though, you could have cut the fight scenes in half and used that time more effectively. In any case, I was saying that I personally would have preferred a movie that deals more with Superman's relationship with humanity than what amounts to an spectacular alien boxing match for Earth. There's really no need to bring the Kryptonians in at all to make an interesting movie about Superman.

I did enjoy Toby Ziegler saving the day though.

[tiam]

I enjoyed it for what it was. Regarding plot points though

Spoiler

We see Zod as a genetically designated soldier who has spent his entire life mastering his senses thus allowing a convenient plot point to allow him to go toe to toe with Superman in the finale. No problem with that it had to happen or you have Superman just dodging around him.

However the film, whilst beating us over the head with the fact the kryptonian empire ran out of natural resources as a social commentary, states that all Kryptonian children are designated from birth and only brought into existence to serve a purpose. Zod as a general and a trained soldier. Jor-El is a lead scientist of his planet. If thats the case and these people are created with a purpose how did Jorel beat Zod in a fistfight? It seemed a really bizarre inclusion rather than have Zod simply kill his respected enemy while Jorel buys time for the ship or something. Why have him beat Zod and have Zod score a cheap blow thus lessening his calibre as a remorseless man of action. I get that they made Zod an almost sympathetic villain with a purpose but would it not be more impactive to have Zod be forced to kill his respected adversary as the ever present means to an end that was his entire purpose since birth.

[QuickTidal]

MTS, on 01 July 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

Oh I know that. The movie was too long as it is though, you could have cut the fight scenes in half and used that time more effectively. In any case, I was saying that I personally would have preferred a movie that deals more with Superman's relationship with humanity than what amounts to an spectacular alien boxing match for Earth. There's really no need to bring the Kryptonians in at all to make an interesting movie about Superman.

I did enjoy Toby Ziegler saving the day though.

Nope, Superman fans want to see superman knocking shit about.

I find it really funny that when SUPERMAN RETURNS came out, fans said there was next to zero action, no superfighting...and they pissed on the movie for that (I was one of them)

And now people say there is TOO much fighting.

Like make up your melons. />

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 01 July 2013 - 06:50 PM