[Tsundoku]

carnage4u, on 21 July 2010 - 03:06 PM, said:

I dont mind waiting for books much either. I just find it sad that he will die before this book series is finished. Its just reality. 5 years+ per book. At his age, at the way he lives his life? I would be willing to bet anyone money he will die before the books are done. It will the one of the greatest almost book series of all time when that occurs.

Gah! You HAD to go and say it out loud didn't you? Cue 3 pages of similar comments before someone says something vaguely amusing or constructive. Or maybe some nice mod could lock the topic.

[haroos]

carnage4u, on 21 July 2010 - 03:06 PM, said:

I dont mind waiting for books much either. I just find it sad that he will die before this book series is finished. Its just reality. 5 years+ per book. At his age, at the way he lives his life? I would be willing to bet anyone money he will die before the books are done. It will the one of the greatest almost book series of all time when that occurs.

lol. what certainty.
maybe his unfinished series will be given to brandon sanderson too ?

[Werthead]

If GRRM croaks, we are shit out of luck....Since GRRM's heirs are all under strict instructions not to give out the literary rights anyway,...




MODGOD NOTE OF I SUCK AND HIT EDIT INSTEAD OF REPLY - MY BAD - APOLOGIES TO WERT FOR THE LOST TEXT.

This post has been edited by Abyss: 21 July 2010 - 09:09 PM
Reason for edit: I SUCK

[Tsundoku]

Werthead, on 21 July 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

heirs are all under strict instructions not to give out the literary rights anyway, it's a moot point. Even Sanderson laughed when he was asked this and said he couldn't and wouldn't do it anyway (Sanderson is a fairly devout Mormon and apparently will not write too much in the way of bad language, sex and violence, which makes him a poor match for GRRM's writing style, to say the least).

Yet he writes well. That kills off any final excuse Stephanie Meyer may have ever had for her complete inability to write well or at least create interesting characters. It's not her religion - she's just shit.

Quote

On the slightly random front, Martin has kept his promise and has brutally killed off Pat from Pat's Fantasy Hotlist in return for losing a wager to him earlier this year.

Just one line saying he died brutally? Or is there a link to some incredibly cool short story I missed?

[stone monkey]

Werthead, on 21 July 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

Quote

If GRRM croaks, we are shit out of luck....Since GRRM's heirs are all under strict instructions not to give out the literary rights anyway,...

See my upthread posts circa June 8. Dollars will win out, every time. This series WILL be finished.

- Abyss, has faith in the $.

Erm.... Confused...

Or is The Great Mystery Of Abyss finally resolved...

[Abyss]

Werthead, on 21 July 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

If GRRM croaks, we are shit out of luck....Since GRRM's heirs are all under strict instructions not to give out the literary rights anyway,...

See my upthread posts circa June 8. Dollars will win out, every time. This series WILL be finished.

- Abyss, has faith in the $.

[Werthead]

Quote

See my upthread posts circa June 8. Dollars will win out, every time. This series WILL be finished.

I don't think I went into more detail about this last time. But I know George's girlfriend (his first heir) and I know the other heirs who stand to inherit the rights to ASoIaF after her. None of them are wanting for money at all and they've all said, repeatedly, that they will not dishonour GRRM's request not to have someone else finish the books without his permission.

The only way this scenario unfolds is if GRRM changes his mind, or if the copyright expires 70-odd years after his passing and someone does it then.

Quote

Just one line saying he died brutally? Or is there a link to some incredibly cool short story I missed?

Pat's death is in ADWD, from what I gather quite near the end. I gather it'll be something like:

"My Lord Snow! Ser Patrek Dennister just got killed!"
"How so?"
"Crushed to death by a rampaging wooly mammoth!"
"But that's a really lame way to die!"
"Yes, my lord! But his taste in sports team was most questionable so it's not really important!"

[haroos]

Werthead, on 21 July 2010 - 11:37 PM, said:

Quote

See my upthread posts circa June 8. Dollars will win out, every time. This series WILL be finished.

I don't think I went into more detail about this last time. But I know George's girlfriend (his first heir) and I know the other heirs who stand to inherit the rights to ASoIaF after her. None of them are wanting for money at all and they've all said, repeatedly, that they will not dishonour GRRM's request not to have someone else finish the books without his permission.

The only way this scenario unfolds is if GRRM changes his mind, or if the copyright expires 70-odd years after his passing and someone does it then.

Quote

Just one line saying he died brutally? Or is there a link to some incredibly cool short story I missed?

Pat's death is in ADWD, from what I gather quite near the end. I gather it'll be something like:

"My Lord Snow! Ser Patrek Dennister just got killed!"
"How so?"
"Crushed to death by a rampaging wooly mammoth!"
"But that's a really lame way to die!"
"Yes, my lord! But his taste in sports team was most questionable so it's not really important!"

well, if he already expressed his will on this, is he then expecting not to finish the series ?
is that even a consideration of his ?
if so, then ... expletives abound.

[Salt-Man Z]

haroos, on 22 July 2010 - 07:40 PM, said:

well, if he already expressed his will on this, is he then expecting not to finish the series?

Yeah, just like you buy fire insurance expecting your house to burn down.

[Abyss]

Actually, it's brilliance on GRRM's part. By ensuring that only he can finish the series, the publishers can't have him knocked off so someone else can take over to move the timeline up a bit. in fact, if he suffers a sudden illness or accident or whatever, they MUST invest huge dollars to ensure he lives... thus, he ensures his own immortality for as long as it takes to complete the series...

DIABOLICAL!!!

- Abyss, only mostly kidding...

[Werthead]

haroos, on 22 July 2010 - 07:40 PM, said:

well, if he already expressed his will on this, is he then expecting not to finish the series ?
is that even a consideration of his ?
if so, then ... expletives abound.

Someone asked GRRM at a convention about ten years ago this, in a "What happens if you get knocked down by a bus?" thing to a whole panel of authors (I think one of the other authors present was Robert Jordan) engaged in writing multi-book series and that was his response.

As a not-very-likely-to-happen, theoretical concept thing back then, GRRM had no problem talking about it. These days he gets asked this by people who fully expect him to die on the somewhat questionable basis that Robert Jordan died before his time and Terry Pratchett is ill (Jordan being a friend of GRRM's and Pratchett a professional acquaintence whom he's hung out with a few times, so not particularly pleasant either way), which is a different matter and gets him pissed off.

[haroos]

Werthead, on 22 July 2010 - 08:56 PM, said:

haroos, on 22 July 2010 - 07:40 PM, said:

well, if he already expressed his will on this, is he then expecting not to finish the series ?
is that even a consideration of his ?
if so, then ... expletives abound.

Someone asked GRRM at a convention about ten years ago this, in a "What happens if you get knocked down by a bus?" thing to a whole panel of authors (I think one of the other authors present was Robert Jordan) engaged in writing multi-book series and that was his response.

As a not-very-likely-to-happen, theoretical concept thing back then, GRRM had no problem talking about it. These days he gets asked this by people who fully expect him to die on the somewhat questionable basis that Robert Jordan died before his time and Terry Pratchett is ill (Jordan being a friend of GRRM's and Pratchett a professional acquaintence whom he's hung out with a few times, so not particularly pleasant either way), which is a different matter and gets him pissed off.

i did not mean my question to sound the same, i just wondered why he would share such info with anyone.

[teholbeddict]

haroos, on 23 July 2010 - 04:44 AM, said:

Werthead, on 22 July 2010 - 08:56 PM, said:

haroos, on 22 July 2010 - 07:40 PM, said:

well, if he already expressed his will on this, is he then expecting not to finish the series ?
is that even a consideration of his ?
if so, then ... expletives abound.

Someone asked GRRM at a convention about ten years ago this, in a "What happens if you get knocked down by a bus?" thing to a whole panel of authors (I think one of the other authors present was Robert Jordan) engaged in writing multi-book series and that was his response.

As a not-very-likely-to-happen, theoretical concept thing back then, GRRM had no problem talking about it. These days he gets asked this by people who fully expect him to die on the somewhat questionable basis that Robert Jordan died before his time and Terry Pratchett is ill (Jordan being a friend of GRRM's and Pratchett a professional acquaintence whom he's hung out with a few times, so not particularly pleasant either way), which is a different matter and gets him pissed off.

i did not mean my question to sound the same, i just wondered why he would share such info with anyone.

I have to agree with you there Haroo. I mean it's one thing to share that your gf is your literary heir, that's not that unusual, but to be informing people of your long list of literary heirs seems rather odd. I don't know of many people who disclose all of the details of their will, or even partial details like that. Really very little surprises me where GRRM is concerned anymore.

[dktorode]

Werthead, on 21 July 2010 - 05:55 PM, said:

If GRRM croaks, we are shit out of luck....Since GRRM's heirs are all under strict instructions not to give out the literary rights anyway,...

Proof of how much of a dick he is

[Werthead]

dktorode, on 23 July 2010 - 08:52 AM, said:

Proof of how much of a dick he is

Hang on, you want to see some trashy piece of fanfiction to round off the story? You'd prefer Kevin J. Hackmeister to come in and conclude the series if the unthinkable happens? If it's a choice of getting no resolution to A Song of Ice and Fire and what happened to the Dune and Amber books there is absolutely no question that we're better off with no resolution at all.

After ADWD is done, Martin is still two books away from finishing the series. If he gets to the last one he might very well change his mind and write down a big outline and detailed notes to keep things on track, just as Robert Jordan did (and Jordan was far more vehement that no-one else was going to finish the series but him prior to getting to the last book). But he might not. That's up to him as the author. The Tolkien Estate has also been very strict that absolutely no-one else is going to play in the Middle-earth universe other than JRRT (to the point that Christopher Tolkien was so agonised at making up maybe three paragraphs in The Silmarillion he released his father's entire manuscript collection of everything he ever wrote on Middle-earth to justify it to the fans). Does that make them dicks for not giving someone the opportunity to tell the story of the Blue Wizards, or finishing Tolkien's incomplete sequel to The Lord of the Rings?

Precisely what measures have Steven Erikson and Ian Esslemont put in place so someone else finishes off their books in case they get hit by flaming meteorites, depriving us of the Assail story or the resolution to Karsa's journey? I'm dying to know now.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 23 July 2010 - 10:39 AM

[dktorode]

Why does he not at least have an outline for the fans of what is meant to happen in the story in the event of his death?
He has stated that if he dies the story dies with him, no notes, nothing left behind.....selfish if you aks me...what would it hurt?
Why does he have to be a dick and not give any kind of resolution to his fans in the event of his death?
there has been loads of talk about him dying and he has been a right dick about it every time it gets brought up.

he's a wanker that doesnt care about his fans, only cares about himself and his image beyond the grave.

And yes i would rather see another author step in and finish the bloody story, especially if the original author left notes behind.
But noooooo. selfish

[Werthead]

dktorode, on 23 July 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:

Why does he not at least have an outline for the fans of what is meant to happen in the story in the event of his death?

Because he doesn't know. Half of ASoIaF is made up as he goes along (as half of WoT was, which is why Jordan didn't have one either until he was very close to the end).

Quote

He has stated that if he dies the story dies with him, no notes, nothing left behind.....selfish if you aks me...what would it hurt?

Go read The Legends of Dune trilogy and see exactly how bad it hurts.

Quote

there has been loads of talk about him dying and he has been a right dick about it every time it gets brought up.

Because he answered this question once years ago and people are still asking it, even though the answer is widely known. If you got five emails a day asking you if you were about to die the novelty would wear off for you as well.

Quote

he's a wanker that doesnt care about his fans, only cares about himself and his image beyond the grave.

So Steven Erikson is a wanker as well, because he apparently doesn't have a back-up plan either? And therefore so are 90% of authors engaged in writing series because they have exactly the same attitude and approach?

Good to know.

Quote

And yes i would rather see another author step in and finish the bloody story, especially if the original author left notes behind.
But noooooo. selfish

You are taking the piss at this point, aren't you? Please tell me you are actually joking? Because otherwise we have reached a new all-time low in the quality of the discussion here, which is really saying something.

[dktorode]

Werthead, on 23 July 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

dktorode, on 23 July 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:

Why does he not at least have an outline for the fans of what is meant to happen in the story in the event of his death?

Because he doesn't know. Half of ASoIaF is made up as he goes along (as half of WoT was, which is why Jordan didn't have one either until he was very close to the end).

If he has no clue where the books are going how does he know how many books there are going to be? He must pithced SOMETHING to the publishers?
And at least jordan didnt give the world the middle finger when he died, he got someone else to finish his work.
Wich is what Martin refuses to let happen... dick move...

Werthead, on 23 July 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

Quote

He has stated that if he dies the story dies with him, no notes, nothing left behind.....selfish if you aks me...what would it hurt?

Go read The Legends of Dune trilogy and see exactly how bad it hurts.

oh come on...stop bringing up other shit examples of works, you have no way of knowing for sure if it is going to be bad, and at least it will be FINISHED!!!!

Werthead, on 23 July 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

Quote

there has been loads of talk about him dying and he has been a right dick about it every time it gets brought up.

Because he answered this question once years ago and people are still asking it, even though the answer is widely known. If you got five emails a day asking you if you were about to die the novelty would wear off for you as well.

Well why doesn't he, instead of being an asshole and giving everyone the finger and saying "tough luck if i die", just appease the fans and write a little something that can outline the series, even if its a lie....even if he never intends to actually release it or let someone else finish it ala Tolkien....no....he is a first class asshole and will rub it in everyone's face every time the question gets asked. Ofcourse he has his own reasons why he doesnt, but that doesnt mean he has to tell his fans they are fresh out of luck....he's like a giant literary TROLL.
No love or respect for his fans.
Just admit it he is a dick...nothing wrong with being a dick.

Werthead, on 23 July 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

Quote

he's a wanker that doesnt care about his fans, only cares about himself and his image beyond the grave.

So Steven Erikson is a wanker as well, because he apparently doesn't have a back-up plan either? And therefore so are 90% of authors engaged in writing series because they have exactly the same attitude and approach?

Good to know.

You cant compare Martin to most writers.
Eriskon is not an unhealthy fat dude that is long in the tooth and only writing a book every 5/6 years with what looks like 10-12 more years to go to finish a series.
Other authors arent going around and flat out telling their fans they are fresh out of luck if they die.
You are comparing apples to pears here.

Werthead, on 23 July 2010 - 11:22 AM, said:

Quote

And yes i would rather see another author step in and finish the bloody story, especially if the original author left notes behind.
But noooooo. selfish

You are taking the piss at this point, aren't you? Please tell me you are actually joking? Because otherwise we have reached a new all-time low in the quality of the discussion here, which is really saying something.

I am not joking....if he would just outline the ending he surely must have in mind then i dont care who writes it if he is dead, it wont take away from what he has written before. You mention the Legends of Dune. Is Franks Dune trillogy now a shit all of the sudden because of the Legends? ....no
If its shit...then hell, at least well know how the bloody arch was meant to unfold.
As it stands we dont know what is going to happen and never will if he dies.

And what makes him a dick (the point of my rant) is that he does not care one bit about his fans and what happens when he dies.
All he cares about is his own image.

[MTS]

I feel it's rather redundant at this stage, but 'GRRM is not your bitch' seems to be the only thing that needs to be said, dk. If the man is very adamant about people not continuing this series, why should he leave notes so that someone in the future can do that very thing? He wants no one else to tell this story, and I doubt he wants to cheapen the ending of his magnum opus by simply giving the fans an outline. Also, if he's a dick for not having an outline (which will probably only exist in his head anyway), how does it make him any less of a dick taking even more time away from the series doing other things? Summarising the very stuff he's about to write just in case he dies seems to be so unbelievably redundant it's not even funny. Besides, after being treated so poorly by his fans (whether deserved or not is irrelevant), I seriously doubt he gives a fuck what you think, and is more likely to give you the bird out of spite than placate your overly-high expectations. I mean, the guy's expected to make you happy after he dies as well? C'mon.

Oh, and how does not wanting someone else to tell your story the way they see it rather than how he sees it caring about his own image? In my mind he just doesn't want anyone else to fuck it up. Hardly unreasonable, considering how good this series is (and how much this series is placed on a pedestal by the fandom).

This post has been edited by MTS: 23 July 2010 - 01:19 PM

[dktorode]

Ok....fine...i give up

martin is a marvelous chap who clearly is very appreciative of his fans.
And he does his very best to please them, he is not a dick....sorrry