[MTS]

No need to resort to the petty sarcasm, dk. I'm not saying the man is the bloody Messiah come again, but just as you feel his commitment to writing the series and engaging with the fans (in a positive way) is too low, so do I think your expectations are too high (and he probably does too). He probably could do better in how he communicates to the fans, and sometimes can come across as very petty, but the guy can do whatever the fuck he wants with his time and doesn't have to spend every waking minute working on ASOIAF or trying to please the fans. Perhaps if he wasn't so vocal about spending time away from ASOIAF things wouldn't be so bad, but I think reactions like yours are just dumping fuel on an already raging fire.

Me, I'm not going to think or have much of an opinion about it, and am going to read other things. If it gets finished in my lifetime, yippee hooray, but if not, well I'm sure I'll get over it and enjoy the books for themselves.

This post has been edited by MTS: 23 July 2010 - 02:31 PM

[dktorode]

So we agree that he is a dick then?....I never said he must write 24/7... i was originally not talking at all about his pace of writing.

I was merely referring to the way he treats his reader base.

[MTS]

I don't think he's a dick, I just think he's gotten sick of people hounding him all the time to finish the series. Doesn't make him a dick, makes him human (thus, a dick? ).

This post has been edited by MTS: 23 July 2010 - 02:51 PM

[Abyss]

MODGOD WARNING OF MOVE THE CONVERSATION ON TO SOMETHING OTHER THAN ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER GRRM IS A DICK OR THE THREAD WILL BE LOCKED DOWN.

[pat5150]

Now that he found a way to squeeze in a character based on me and butcher him, I expect progress on ADWD to be swift. . .

Patrick

[Werthead]

pat5150, on 24 July 2010 - 05:28 PM, said:

Now that he found a way to squeeze in a character based on me and butcher him, I expect progress on ADWD to be swift. . .

Patrick

Wait, that was the real reason for the delay?

PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!*


* Said in the same tone of voice as William Shatner screaming "KHAAAAAN!" in ST2.

[Grunthor]

I agree with dk's sentiment to be fair. Martin is supplying a product (the Books) that he is not forthcoming with. We have been waiting for this book for far too long. To take this long as a sort of 2 fingered salute to fans just becase he can is childish inthe extreme. While it will not be the end of the world if he dosen't get to finish the series I will be pretty disappointed as it is a great series so far. I do think he owes the fans ADWD and pretty soon. If he were to die before finishing the series, Martin won't be remembered for what could have been a great series, but more of a lazy get for not finshing it..

[MTS]

It's only been what, five years since A Feast For Crows? Some authors have taken more than a decade to write some books. It's not even longer than the wait for A Feast For Crows IIRC so really that argument has no teeth. It also presupposes that there is an 'acceptable' time between books that he absolutely must adhere to, which is rubbish.

This post has been edited by MTS: 29 July 2010 - 04:01 PM

[haroos]

MTS, on 29 July 2010 - 03:58 PM, said:

It's only been what, five years since A Feast For Crows? Some authors have taken more than a decade to write some books. It's not even longer than the wait for A Feast For Crows IIRC so really that argument has no teeth. It also presupposes that there is an 'acceptable' time between books that he absolutely must adhere to, which is rubbish.

i said this before, it's not the delay that bothers me.
it's the fact that between the books he writes other books, a tv series (perhaps a second one now).
makes it seem as if the books have become less of a priority for him.
and that's not a decent behaviour.

i read someone who said that he met him and that he realy is sad about not making progress with the book, ok , so ?
did you read the adwd update in jan. 2008 ?
and then in feb. 2009 ?
and did u see how there wasn't an update in 2010 ?

make of it what you want.
but to me, it's ugly.

[Aptorian]

Werthead, on 24 July 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

pat5150, on 24 July 2010 - 05:28 PM, said:

Now that he found a way to squeeze in a character based on me and butcher him, I expect progress on ADWD to be swift. . .

Patrick

Wait, that was the real reason for the delay?

PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!!!!!!!*


* Said in the same tone of voice as William Shatner screaming "KHAAAAAN!" in ST2.

I now have a mental picture of Pat and Martin in a duel to the death fighting with spears in a bloody arena. I can almost hear the crowd.

[Abyss]

Aptorian, on 29 July 2010 - 07:05 PM, said:

...I now have a mental picture of Pat and Martin in a duel to the death fighting with spears in a bloody arena....

argh!
too...
many...
jokes...

must...
resist...

- Abyss, ...*head 'splodes*

[Werthead]

MTS, on 29 July 2010 - 03:58 PM, said:

It's only been what, five years since A Feast For Crows? Some authors have taken more than a decade to write some books. It's not even longer than the wait for A Feast For Crows IIRC so really that argument has no teeth. It also presupposes that there is an 'acceptable' time between books that he absolutely must adhere to, which is rubbish.

I agree with this in principle but to be fair to the 'critics', GRRM did suggest that ADWD would come out 1-2 years after AFFC. If he'd actually said in 2005, "ADWD is going to take fecking ages, brace yourselves for it," that would have been one thing. Also, whilst explanations and clarifications for the wait have been given in the meantime, they've been online where hardly anyone has read them (as evidenced by the continuing mountain of misinformed ranting coming out in this thread), whilst everyone has read that note in the back of AFFC. So, a fair amount of the criticism is understandable and, some of it is even fair.

Of course, you then get constant reiterations of guff like this:

haroos, on 29 July 2010 - 04:46 PM, said:

it's the fact that between the books he writes other books, a tv series (perhaps a second one now).
makes it seem as if the books have become less of a priority for him.
and that's not a decent behaviour.

What books?

This point needs to be said again, given that people seem to have difficulty grasping it: since 1995, a year before A Game of Thrones even came out, Martin has written exactly two short stories not set in Westeros. That is it. Nothing else. No other novels, no other novellas or short stories, just those two short works (one story in SONGS OF THE DYING EARTH and another for WILD CARDS). Everything else fiction-related that he has released in the last fifteen years has been related to A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE. He has certainly not 'written any books' outside of the setting, and if you read his blog you'll note that his draft of the TV script took like a fortnight maximum, and whilst writing it he went half-days on ADWD (the morning on the novel, the afternoon on the script). Now it's done and it will be a year or more before he needs to write another one.

This post has been edited by Werthead: 30 July 2010 - 12:51 AM

[MTS]

Werthead, on 30 July 2010 - 12:48 AM, said:

MTS, on 29 July 2010 - 03:58 PM, said:

It's only been what, five years since A Feast For Crows? Some authors have taken more than a decade to write some books. It's not even longer than the wait for A Feast For Crows IIRC so really that argument has no teeth. It also presupposes that there is an 'acceptable' time between books that he absolutely must adhere to, which is rubbish.

I agree with this in principle but to be fair to the 'critics', GRRM did suggest that ADWD would come out 1-2 years after AFFC. If he'd actually said in 2005, "ADWD is going to take fecking ages, brace yourselves for it," that would have been one thing. Also, whilst explanations and clarifications for the wait have been given in the meantime, they've been online where hardly anyone has read them (as evidenced by the continuing mountain of misinformed ranting coming out in this thread), whilst everyone has read that note in the back of AFFC. So, a fair amount of the criticism is understandable and, some of it is even fair.

Oh, I understand that, and I've always been faintly bemused as to why he wrote that in the note. Even if it was going to take the time he thought it would, a quick turnaround would have made the fans a lot happier than providing a deadline and sticking to it. It boggles the mind that his publisher let him put the 'deadline' in there in the first place.

However, Grunthor didn't mention any of that, only that it's been 'too long' and that he 'owes' us this book, which is debatable in the former and absolute crap in the latter. The sentiment has gotten to the point where people are enraged that he dares to spend time on other things than ASOIAF and are actually pressuring him to get it done before he dies, of all things. So I understand how people can be frustrated, but the way in which GRRM has been lambasted over the last few years is disproportionate to the mistakes he's committed. And people should quit bitching anyway, we're getting a HBO series next year. Suck it up and move on.

This post has been edited by MTS: 30 July 2010 - 04:11 AM

[Abyss]

MTS, on 30 July 2010 - 04:08 AM, said:

... And people should quit bitching anyway, we're getting a HBO series next year. Suck it up and move on.

It occurs to me that - assuming, of course, that DWD is done by then - if the publishers had half a brain between them they would time the release as close as possible to the premiere of the series and cross-promote the hell out of the whole thing.

[haroos]

i admit to being a little surprised at this.
i checked it out , and you're right, he didn't write books since 1995, except for books 3 and 4 of soiaf.
he contributed or edited about 8 other books.

i was wrong here.

although i have to say that it looks worse now, that i see that in 15 years, he didn't complete soiaf.
i wish you never would have told me that.

[Aptorian]

He was a Television writer before he became known for his books. Personally I will always have a little place in my heart for him because he worked on Beauty and the Beast.

[Terez]

I don't have any complaints about him doing other projects in between; it might have been difficult for him to find inspiration to write because of the largely negative reaction to FFC from the fans (Gaiman alluded to that in his 'not your bitch' blog). So he found inspiration elsewhere. It's his right.

That being said, RJ only had time to change his mind on the WoT legacy because he had a terminal illness. If he'd died of a heart attack, we (the WoT fans) might well be up shit creek at the moment.

[pat5150]

Abyss, on 30 July 2010 - 03:26 PM, said:

MTS, on 30 July 2010 - 04:08 AM, said:

... And people should quit bitching anyway, we're getting a HBO series next year. Suck it up and move on.

It occurs to me that - assuming, of course, that DWD is done by then - if the publishers had half a brain between them they would time the release as close as possible to the premiere of the series and cross-promote the hell out of the whole thing.

Believe me,

If Bantam think they can get away with doing just that, they will. But I figure that ADwD will be released ASAP after they get the finished manuscript. Anne Groell will likely work overtime to edit the book, and I wouldn't be surprised to see the novel hit the shelves within 6 months of the manuscript being turned in.

As for the HBO series, Charlaine Harris' Sookie Stackhouse books (which were already bestsellers) saw an increase in sales of 2000% to 3000% due to the popularity of the TV show. Look for the first 4 ASOIAF volumes to be reissued with TV covers, perhaps in trade paperback format, and they'll go like hot cakes...

Patrick

[Harvester]

... which means that there will be 5000% more bitching.

[Paran]

And 10000% more waiting for next book!

*couldn't resist! ;p

It'd be awesome if the renewed success would inspire him to finish the series in style, but I just get the feeling that he's at that point where the struggle of writing doesn't have as much of a payoff as enjoying the comforts he's earned.