[Tellan]

Here for a bit.

Speculation wise I agree that the bride is a more important target.

A couple of things that have struck me have been a couple of people backing off from votes rather quickly.

The exhange up the page with Spite and Korbas went pretty calm all of a sudden, and in particular this from spite:

"much as i enjoy pissing contests they have a habit of seeing people lynched for no other reason than everyone else sits back and does nothing while they are going on."

Seems to imply that he's backing off from getting into an argument not because he isn't convinced of it's merits but because he's worried it'll get him lynched.

Another example of people backing down quickly is Mockra, who removed his vote on Barghast for being non-commital after one post by barghast.

[Rashan]

Let me preface this by saying that it's day one and Gut plays a huge roll, unless scum is stupid and comes on thread drunk is misunderstood and reveals

Ok did a full read through while it's still able to be done in a timely manner. Couple things popped out including the entirety of GL's posts. Seems to me like he is popping in and padding the post count, asking questions, trying to seem like he is in the game.. it's early and it might be nothing, but I have seen a lot of scum work there way into a game this way.

Galayn Lord, on 08 December 2009 - 08:07 AM, said:

Checking in.

Why can't we say the Bride's real name? It's not even anything special, it's only B*EEEEEEEEEEEP*e

Galayn Lord, on 08 December 2009 - 08:13 AM, said:

Olar Ethil, on 08 December 2009 - 03:46 AM, said:

hmm, so, nobody's here, i'm gonna sit down and speculate


this game seems rather straightforward. we've got Town, who must defend the vipers, and we got the Bride, who wants to kill the vipers, and we got the assasin who wants to kill everyone.

so, assuming the assassin is the pred role, with some serious BPs or double kills, i'm gonna leave him for now, and try to figure out who could be helping out the Bride.
the one person who instantly comes to mind is Pai Mei. maybe Hattori, too.

in either case, seems the smartest thing for the town is to try to eliminate the Bride.

however, unless anything better pops up, I want to vote off Fener for his moronic "reveal"

Oh, a post who is neither ascii puns nor dragonsex!

Not sure what you mean by "We need the Assassin dead and he must be hard to kill, so let's keep him for late in the game" bit.

Galayn Lord, on 08 December 2009 - 08:19 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 07 December 2009 - 08:21 AM, said:

• You make quote and/or fake quote your PMs. Just be careful, as The Bride is always watching you.
• If killed, you will be asked to stay on your alt.

Anyone has any idea what these two things mean?

Galayn Lord, on 08 December 2009 - 08:35 AM, said:

"asked to stay on your alt" means that your identity won't be CFed? Doesn't sound like the same thing to me.

At the risk of sounding sympish, I agree with Fener's post here. It's silly to search for Bride only, there is an assassin out there and if he is dead thats one less killer thats able to take out the Deadly Vipers. Only thing I don't like about this post, is the little emote after his joke about getting lynched because he has the Fener alt... almost like he is pleading not to be lynched. Weird gut thing.

Fener, on 08 December 2009 - 09:51 AM, said:

Hrm, Olar Ethil now intrigues me. I'm not sure how I 'revealed', given I actually accused someone else of being the Assassin. Unless you're talking about alt revealing, which is equally BS as someone claiming Uganda, and someone claiming Poland.
Then, the priorities. The Bride is meant to be hunting the Vipers. The Assassin is hunting everyone. Town loses if the Vipers die. How do we choose between two people both trying to get rid of the Vipers? We go for the one which is more dangerous - to me, the quoting/bs-ing PM's rule sounds like the Bride has help, but Ethil subtly implies the Assassin will be a more hardcore character than the Bride....then votes me, I'm assuming on the basis of my 'reveal'.....which is as the Assassin, from his perspective. THEN says we should not be going for the Assassin. WTF?

Now, unless Ethil is serious about the vote on me, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Ethil is actually roleless inno throwing stuff around. So, meh. Smacks of a more aggressive player trying to seem hard-line and intense. Then again, I'm the Fener alt, which sucks balls 'cuz I'm highly likely to be lynched on nothing.

Coming back around to my original point, however,

Quote

so, assuming the assassin is the pred role, with some serious BPs or double kills, i'm gonna leave him for now, and try to figure out who could be helping out the Bride.
the one person who instantly comes to mind is Pai Mei. maybe Hattori, too.

in either case, seems the smartest thing for the town is to try to eliminate the Bride.

this quote is what gets me. "try and figure out who could be helping the Bride" - but no, that's useless speculation. Character names will not help us unless someone is dumb enough to post a role PM claiming a named role like that. Searching for *names* is not going to get us anywhere. And certainly not in *either* case does the Bride make the most logical person to attack, because if the search for Bride aides is useless, we want to go after the strongest threat to the town that we might actually be able to pin down.

I just...don't like this suggestion to go for the Bride in exclusion to the Assassin. Either you *are* the Bride (and we've seen that one before: "Let's hunt the FM!", "Hey, you're the fucking FM and you've been leading the charge against him!"), or you're a crappy symp for one side.



Anyway, just getting my thoughts on Olar Ethil down. Considering the rest of the game so far is mostly spam (my own posts included), there ain't a lot else to analyse. But I'm gonna remove my Shadow vote, 'cuz it was, of course, a joke. Then I shall depart for bed.

Remove vote

Does it seem like Korbas is trying to push us off looking for the Bride. Subtley redirecting conversation back over to the assassin?

Korbas, on 08 December 2009 - 12:13 PM, said:

I dislike how people speak of priorities, as if we have the luxury of choice.

After all, finder and CF results excepted, there is no way of knowing the alignment of whomever you target/ lynch.

Moreover, taking out the Assassin before we take out The Bride will from there on roughly halve the chances that a kill targets one of the Vipers, assuming The Bride and Assassin are capable of 1 NK each, thus buying more time for us to also get rid of The Bride.

In the quite frankly unlikely instance where we have the luxury of knowing the identity of both, of course we should lynch The Bride first, but up until then, I wouldn't pass up on the opportunity to get rid of the Assassin as well.

edit: adding the Enters I had there in the first place. The boards upgrade seems to mess with a whole lot of things

I agree with Eloth here. It's to early to try to look for one specific faction. This early the assassin or the bride would be great, but I don't think we are going to have the luxery of choosing. We find who is shifty and we vote them.

Eloth, on 08 December 2009 - 03:56 PM, said:

Crosspost with Alkend there. Whats up with all these people and the priorities? The chances of us finding out who both The Bride and Assassin are on the same day is probably around 0. What 2 seperate Finders are going to reveal at the same time in a cross posting fiasco?

Instead of this priority nonesense, I think we should just try and find scum or since its Day 1, anyone who looks slightly shifty and hope its scum.

Unfortunately at the moment its starting to look we might be heading the classic, speed lynch anyone on Day 1 path.

Also, Mod can we have a list of alts playing and total player numbers? That would be handy.

So after all that, not a lot to go on, just wanted to get my thoughts out there. The whole Spite convo that Tellan brought up above my post here.. I don't read too much into. They were basically arguing 2 different things and got cross mojinated. At this point I am going to:

vote Gaylan Lord

It's day 1. I don't like how he came out of the gate. Sure we could go for the more vocal players ( in classic Malaz mafai style) but I think as we get down to the end we will want those vocal players around, they not only give us more evidence to work with down the line, they are usually the ones that end up sniffing out the rat.

I will be off and on all day, my company Christmas party is on tonight so i might be a bit tipsy later

Edit wording/punctuation

This post has been edited by Rashan: 08 December 2009 - 05:39 PM

[Kalse]

well not wanting to get lynched is something i can understand and if its a day 1 argument i can see how it wouldnt be worth pursuing at the risk of it resulting in getting lynched...

edit >> @tellan (xpost with rash)

This post has been edited by Kalse: 08 December 2009 - 05:41 PM

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 11 hours, 39 minutes remain.

18 players still alive: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kalse, Karatallid, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Shadow, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan

10 votes are required to lynch.

1 Vote Fener (Olar Ethil)
1 Vote Galayn Lord (Rashan)

Not voted: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kalse, Karatallid, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Shadow, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan

---

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 08 December 2009 - 05:42 PM

[Spite]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 04:58 PM, said:

The exhange up the page with Spite and Korbas went pretty calm all of a sudden, and in particular this from spite:

"much as i enjoy pissing contests they have a habit of seeing people lynched for no other reason than everyone else sits back and does nothing while they are going on."

Seems to imply that he's backing off from getting into an argument not because he isn't convinced of it's merits but because he's worried it'll get him lynched.

whats your point? why would i pursue an argument which serves no purpose other than getting me lynch seriously try harder next time because thats the worst attempt at scum finding ever.

GOLDEN RULE OF MAFIA WHEN PLAYING INNOCENT - ALWAYS APPEAR INNOCENT OR YOUR TEAM WILL WASTE TIME LYNCHING YOU FOR YOUR OWN MISTAKES OR SCUM WILL USE YOUR MISTAKES TO LYNCH YOU

it aint rocket science tellan.

[Tellan]

Why would you pursue an argument at all? You say it serves no purpose-then why vote him in the first place if it is so irrelevant.

Trying too hard to appear innocent does not strike me as innocent, as usually it is the scum who have that pre-occupation.

[Tellan]

My point is this:

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 02:16 PM, said:

vote korbas

i think you are the bride.

You state here you think Korbas is the bride.

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 04:18 PM, said:

Korbas, on 08 December 2009 - 04:14 PM, said:

Aye, the disappearance of text thing has happened to me, too. I blame the forum upgrade. See my comment above.However, I expect O-Ren to have a henchman as well (the bald eighty-eight ball), maybe Bill, too - dopesn't seem too far of a stretch of Vipers knowing one another, either. Moreover, lynching anyone who defends someone else is just going to ensure no-one will speak up against ridiculous cases as that may be seen as symping, leading to trains full of sheep out for self-preservation.

dude - i didnt say that. Seriously, we have to make cases and deciding on day 1 before anyone has even done any defending that making cases based on that is off limits just in case one of the vipers has henchmen as you put it is frankly ridiculous and you know it. So chill your bags and agree to disagree. I took offense to the way you worded somethign about the way i worded something and i heading off now so much as i enjoy pissing contests they have a habit of seeing people lynched for no other reason than everyone else sits back and does nothing while they are going on.

remove vote

you say potato - i say lynch the bride first if we find both

You then remove from the person you think is the bride, because you are worreid about being lycnhed. So, you're worried about getting into an argument against someone you think is the bride?
Now, and correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the innos job to try and get the people they think are scum lynched?
Removing vote on someone you think is the bride just because you are worried about getting lynched yourself strikes me as scummy. And if scum use your mistakes to lynch you? Well, why do you think we look at the trains post-CF?

[D'riss]

I agree with the point about symps likely leading back the bride, but the fact that innocents likely know about one another does muddy the water somewhat. Discussing who to lynch first is always a moot point, but discussing the relative strengths and possible abilities can help figure out what's going on, especially with regard to NAs. Since the bride's victory conditions are easier than that of the assassin (and she apparently has symps), I would hazard a guess that her role isn't quite as strong. Both can probably kill at night and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a couple of BPs in there too. The assassin likely has a couple of other skills in order to survive right to the end of what we have been told is a role heavy game.

I agree Spite has been a little all over the place, kinda get what Rashan is saying about GL, but not sure I really want to vote based on someone else's gut feel.

[Spite]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 06:44 PM, said:

Why would you pursue an argument at all? You say it serves no purpose-then why vote him in the first place if it is so irrelevant.

Trying too hard to appear innocent does not strike me as innocent, as usually it is the scum who have that pre-occupation.

my point, genius is that the pursuit of a PISSING CONTEST on day 1 is a good way to get lynched and stop other people talking as they just sit back and say nothing. No one was follwoing my vote, and the constant arguing served no purpose. If you think i am scum tellan, vote. Cause your poor logic and weak strawmanning is boring me.

[Spite]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 07:27 PM, said:

You then remove from the person you think is the bride, because you are worreid about being lycnhed. So, you're worried about getting into an argument against someone you think is the bride?
Now, and correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the innos job to try and get the people they think are scum lynched?
Removing vote on someone you think is the bride just because you are worried about getting lynched yourself strikes me as scummy. And if scum use your mistakes to lynch you? Well, why do you think we look at the trains post-CF?

You couldnt get a lynch on me with this piss poor attemtp at an argument. Its day 1, tellan. I aint got proof of my suspicions so when i throw about accusations they are to guage reactions. as for train cf's, the point i am making which you are too stupid it seems to get is that continuing a pointless pissing contest on day 1 is the mistake they will use, and no looking at a cf after the fact will change the point that getting into a pissing contest and continuing it for no reason is a valid lynch reason. You are digging rather hard for a good reason to vote, when i think its pretty fucking obvious that theres nothing in what i said and so you are trying very hard to construe it as something scum would say.

vote tellan

because your obviously a symp and are trying to keep me in the spotlight with a foolish attempt at strawmanning a player who can shout longer and louder than you can.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 9 hours, 17 minutes remain.

18 players still alive: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kalse, Karatallid, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Shadow, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan

10 votes are required to lynch.

1 Vote Fener (Olar Ethil)
1 Vote Galayn Lord (Rashan)
1 Vote Tellan (Spite)

Not voted: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kalse, Karatallid, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Shadow, Sorrit, Tellan

---

[Spite]

for gods sake your not meant to run off mid argument tellan. whats the point of me trying to make a point if you are not going to respond to it?

[Korbas]

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 08:50 PM, said:

for gods sake your not meant to run off mid argument tellan.  whats the point of me trying to make a point if you are not going to respond to it?

Instead of laughing the argument off, this could be considered silencing it to death?

[Galayn Lord]

Is Rashan seriously voting me as a non-contributer after less than 24 hours gone in the game? The fuck?

I think the bit with Korbas and Spite was a bit intense and out-of-nowhere. I'm wondering if one of the two is not purposefully trying to stir the shit.

Considering that I agree with Korbas' initial comment that there's no point setting priorities when we have no clue what's happening (it's hard enough lynching killers then the only point is to lynch killers), I fail to see why it degenerated like that.

vote Spite

for being all over the place and snarling at everything that posts. Nothing against a bit of this, but it comes out a bit forced at this point.

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 1. 8 hours, 7 minutes remain.

18 players still alive: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Galayn Lord, Hood's Path, Kalse, Karatallid, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Olar Ethil, Rashan, Shadow, Sorrit, Spite, Tellan

10 votes are required to lynch.

1 Vote Fener (Olar Ethil)
1 Vote Galayn Lord (Rashan)
1 Vote Tellan (Spite)
1 Vote Spite (Galayn Lord)

Not voted: Alkend, Barghast, D'riss, Eloth, Fener, Hood's Path, Kalse, Karatallid, Korbas, Liosan, Mockra, Shadow, Sorrit, Tellan

---

This post has been edited by Path-Shaper: 08 December 2009 - 09:13 PM

[Galayn Lord]

Actually, strike that.

remove vote

Rashan, on 08 December 2009 - 05:37 PM, said:

Let me preface this by saying that it's day one and Gut plays a huge roll, unless scum is stupid and comes on thread drunk is misunderstood and reveals

Ok did a full read through while it's still able to be done in a timely manner. Couple things popped out including the entirety of GL's posts. Seems to me like he is popping in and padding the post count, asking questions, trying to seem like he is in the game.. it's early and it might be nothing, but I have seen a lot of scum work there way into a game this way.

\SNIP\



At the risk of sounding sympish, I agree with Fener's post here. It's silly to search for Bride only, there is an assassin out there and if he is dead thats one less killer thats able to take out the Deadly Vipers. Only thing I don't like about this post, is the little emote after his joke about getting lynched because he has the Fener alt... almost like he is pleading not to be lynched. Weird gut thing.

/SNIP/

Does it seem like Korbas is trying to push us off looking for the Bride. Subtley redirecting conversation back over to the assassin?

Korbas, on 08 December 2009 - 12:13 PM, said:

I dislike how people speak of priorities, as if we have the luxury of choice.

After all, finder and CF results excepted, there is no way of knowing the alignment of whomever you target/ lynch.

Moreover, taking out the Assassin before we take out The Bride will from there on roughly halve the chances that a kill targets one of the Vipers, assuming The Bride and Assassin are capable of 1 NK each, thus buying more time for us to also get rid of The Bride.

In the quite frankly unlikely instance where we have the luxury of knowing the identity of both, of course we should lynch The Bride first, but up until then, I wouldn't pass up on the opportunity to get rid of the Assassin as well.

edit: adding the Enters I had there in the first place. The boards upgrade seems to mess with a whole lot of things

I agree with Eloth here. It's to early to try to look for one specific faction. This early the assassin or the bride would be great, but I don't think we are going to have the luxery of choosing. We find who is shifty and we vote them.

Eloth, on 08 December 2009 - 03:56 PM, said:

Crosspost with Alkend there. Whats up with all these people and the priorities? The chances of us finding out who both The Bride and Assassin are on the same day is probably around 0. What 2 seperate Finders are going to reveal at the same time in a cross posting fiasco?

Instead of this priority nonesense, I think we should just try and find scum or since its Day 1, anyone who looks slightly shifty and hope its scum.

Unfortunately at the moment its starting to look we might be heading the classic, speed lynch anyone on Day 1 path.

Also, Mod can we have a list of alts playing and total player numbers? That would be handy.

So after all that, not a lot to go on, just wanted to get my thoughts out there. The whole Spite convo that Tellan brought up above my post here.. I don't read too much into. They were basically arguing 2 different things and got cross mojinated. At this point I am going to:

vote Gaylan Lord

It's day 1. I don't like how he came out of the gate. Sure we could go for the more vocal players ( in classic Malaz mafai style) but I think as we get down to the end we will want those vocal players around, they not only give us more evidence to work with down the line, they are usually the ones that end up sniffing out the rat.

I will be off and on all day, my company Christmas party is on tonight so i might be a bit tipsy later

Edit wording/punctuation

So he starts by quoting all my posts, saying I'm "padding my posts" because I discuss the rules, where some points were important to me at the time to understand.

Then he says he agrees we should put priority on the Assassin, then quotes a post he finds suspicious by Korbas where Korbas says it's useless to set priorities early in the game, then says he agrees with Eloth that it's useless to set priorities early in the game.

So, basically, a bunch of quotes and conclusions that make no sense put together, besides the fact that it looks interested and "serious" work (or maybe, a need to symp Eloth subtly while forgetting to make that sympage compatible with the rest of his post). And he has the balls to vote me off saying I'll be useless later in the game.

vote Rashan


edit: got "Bride" and "assassin" mixed up

This post has been edited by Galayn Lord: 08 December 2009 - 09:20 PM

[Liosan]

Korbas, on 08 December 2009 - 08:59 PM, said:

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 08:50 PM, said:

for gods sake your not meant to run off mid argument tellan. whats the point of me trying to make a point if you are not going to respond to it?

Instead of laughing the argument off, this could be considered silencing it to death?

I think this post by Korbas is scummy. Spite posted over half an hour after Tellan's post, and had only given Tellan an hour to respond to it, hardly silencing the argument to death, especially as there were very few posts in between to distract from it. It feels like Korbas is stretching too hard to make Tellan look scummy.

Vote Korbas.

[Fener]

Actually, I think you read some of Rashan's posts wrong - Rashan is pretty adamant on *not* taking a priority.
The quoting of Korbas had nothing to do with that, from my perspective, Rash was saying that Korbas is *saying* we should look everywhere, but then pushing discussion onto the Assassin, primarily.

Anyway, back now, reading up.

[Korbas]

Liosan, on 08 December 2009 - 09:24 PM, said:

Korbas, on 08 December 2009 - 08:59 PM, said:

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 08:50 PM, said:

for gods sake your not meant to run off mid argument tellan.  whats the point of me trying to make a point if you are not going to respond to it?

Instead of laughing the argument off, this could be considered silencing it to death?

I think this post by Korbas is scummy. Spite posted over half an hour after Tellan's post, and had only given Tellan an hour to respond to it, hardly silencing the argument to death, especially as there were very few posts in between to distract from it. It feels like Korbas is stretching too hard to make Tellan look scummy.

Vote Korbas.

That, my friend, is a direct reference to laughing one vote/ accussation off and was a remark to everything we always post about 'overreacting' in the newbie threads. I didn't even look at the posting times - actually assumed they weren't that long apart and thought to make a remark, that's all. If I had found it scummy or wished to fan the flames, I would have voted for Tellan. Seeing how I am not going to be around when time-out hits, why would I want to attract MORE attention to myself after already engaging in a pissing contest?

[Spite]

also my post is clearly humourous, you can tell by the canned laughter.