[Spite]

Sorrit, on 08 December 2009 - 10:00 PM, said:

With regards to the rest of what has been going on, it looks like Spite was fishing for a reaction with his vote on Korbas, didn't get one, so proceeded to kiss and make up with Spite. Tellan's criticism has some merit - going from absolute certainty of guilt to all pally and friendly like Spite did does look a bit crazy. And Spite has certainly reacted pretty violently to the accusations, which strikes me as odd. But the initial reaction fishing makes me doubt that this is anything other than a false positive.

EDIT: X-post with many

i kissed myself, aint nobody loves me.
i kessed me self, it got your real hor-

err what was i saying?

I really dont think i over react, you girls are just too sensitive. tellans criticism might have merit if i had been pushing a big case, but throwing a day 1 accusation at someone and then retracting it is part of driving the thread on. The only thing i disagree with him about and why i voted him, is the smug self belief that because someone acknolwedges and avoids a stupid argument that would get them lynched they are scum. That doesnt make any sense. Everyone is trying not to get lynched, you would be a pretty fucking piss poor player to deliberately set yourself up for a lynch when it is easily avoidable.

[Kalse]

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 10:02 PM, said:

well considering the winning conditions i think we will need a lot more to go on than anything in thread already to get a lynch with some substance and merit. We dont want to do scums job for them. unless we are going to intentionally make an example of a low poster for once i cant see a case working on someone with only 3 votes.

well thats not very optimistic

seriously though we very rarely have anything of substane to go on on day 1 anyways and when we do its usually wrong so what are you complaining about?

[Tellan]

Another point is that I dislike being told to vote. Yes, I think you're scum. Does that mean I have to vote? I think i've made it pretty clear that I think your scum, it's hardly as if me voting you is suddenly going to make it any more obvious.
No-one was following your vote? I find it interesting that you state this as a reason for removal. If people aren't following your vote on someone you think is scum, it still doesn't make sense you would just drop it, and it's hardly as if you waited very long. If you think someone is scum, and no one is following your vote, surely you try to convince them? Kind of the point of why we build cases etc.

But I find it interesting that your reason for backtracking on Korbas was that no-one was following your vote. Why do you care if your vote is followed? It's hardly as if you were switching last minute from a 1 vote train to a L-1 vote train in order to get a lynch, in which case the reasoning could make sense.

Funny thing to be so concerned about. And it's not as if you were removing it to vote someone else, you were just removing it to avoid a pissing contest that could get you lynched.

You backtracked because no one was following your vote and because you didn't want to get into a pissing contest that could get you lynched. Real inno reasons.
Your defence just makes me think you're more scummy.

Vote Spite

[Sorrit]

Kalse, on 08 December 2009 - 09:54 PM, said:

Sorrit is also srsbiznis apparently

okay sorrit so eloth is bein a bit weakwilled. thats about what i expect from people on day 1 when they only have 3 posts, so how does this make eloth scummy?

His weakwilled-ness fits the profile I was looking for. I don't see the point in blindly lynching someone vocal when the chances are the scum aren't going to be in that group. He sounded like he was trying to fit in, and he ducked an issue when he had plenty of time to talk about it. That's why I find him scummy.

[Korbas]

Sorrit, on 08 December 2009 - 10:10 PM, said:

Kalse, on 08 December 2009 - 09:54 PM, said:

Sorrit is also srsbiznis apparently

okay sorrit so eloth is bein a bit weakwilled. thats about what i expect from people on day 1 when they only have 3 posts, so how does this make eloth scummy?

His weakwilled-ness fits the profile I was looking for. I don't see the point in blindly lynching someone vocal when the chances are the scum aren't going to be in that group. He sounded like he was trying to fit in, and he ducked an issue when he had plenty of time to talk about it. That's why I find him scummy.

Giving any impression at all in 3 posts is quite an accomplishment, too.

[Tellan]

Sorrit, on 08 December 2009 - 10:00 PM, said:

With regards to the rest of what has been going on, it looks like Spite was fishing for a reaction with his vote on Korbas, didn't get one, so proceeded to kiss and make up with Spite. Tellan's criticism has some merit - going from absolute certainty of guilt to all pally and friendly like Spite did does look a bit crazy. And Spite has certainly reacted pretty violently to the accusations, which strikes me as odd. But the initial reaction fishing makes me doubt that this is anything other than a false positive.

EDIT: X-post with many

I dislike reaction fishing as a defence.
While people do it, it is also a very easy defence to make, it's not like anyone can say "No you weren't".

However, my case isn't just based on the voting-it's more based on the phrasing, the reasons he gives for removing which are completely nonsensical as an inno, as is his defence.

[Spite]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 09:59 PM, said:

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 07:53 PM, said:

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 06:44 PM, said:

Why would you pursue an argument at all? You say it serves no purpose-then why vote him in the first place if it is so irrelevant.

Trying too hard to appear innocent does not strike me as innocent, as usually it is the scum who have that pre-occupation.

my point, genius is that the pursuit of a PISSING CONTEST on day 1 is a good way to get lynched and stop other people talking as they just sit back and say nothing. No one was follwoing my vote, and the constant arguing served no purpose. If you think i am scum tellan, vote. Cause your poor logic and weak strawmanning is boring me.

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 07:58 PM, said:

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 07:27 PM, said:

You then remove from the person you think is the bride, because you are worreid about being lycnhed. So, you're worried about getting into an argument against someone you think is the bride?
Now, and correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the innos job to try and get the people they think are scum lynched?
Removing vote on someone you think is the bride just because you are worried about getting lynched yourself strikes me as scummy. And if scum use your mistakes to lynch you? Well, why do you think we look at the trains post-CF?

You couldnt get a lynch on me with this piss poor attemtp at an argument. Its day 1, tellan. I aint got proof of my suspicions so when i throw about accusations they are to guage reactions. as for train cf's, the point i am making which you are too stupid it seems to get is that continuing a pointless pissing contest on day 1 is the mistake they will use, and no looking at a cf after the fact will change the point that getting into a pissing contest and continuing it for no reason is a valid lynch reason. You are digging rather hard for a good reason to vote, when i think its pretty fucking obvious that theres nothing in what i said and so you are trying very hard to construe it as something scum would say.

vote tellan

because your obviously a symp and are trying to keep me in the spotlight with a foolish attempt at strawmanning a player who can shout longer and louder than you can.

So, you're not willing to enter a pissing contest with Korbas, but perfectly happy to be shouting longer and louder than me?

You're defence is that you are doing it for reactions, which is a weak defence, and can justify just about anything.

You said you didn't want to get in an argument because it would get you lynched.

And then saying that I am strawmanning?

I am pointing out what I see to be scummy behaviour. That you are unwilling to get involved in an argument, with someone you said you think is the bride no less, because of a fear of being lynched.

You say that the argument between you and Korbas would be pointless. And yet you think he's the bride? So, you're just going to let it drop like that? Hardly seems like inno play. And you claim that you "don't have proof of your suspicions", because it's day one. So, does that mean later you will?

The things you are saying do not make sense from an innocent POV. Why would an innocent remove vote so easily from someone he thinks is the bride-you never said you changed your mind, only that you didn't want to enter a pissing contest that could get you lynched. And that reason is just not something an inno would do-backtrack from someone they think is scum for fear of being lynched.

are you trying to insinuate i am roled for any reason there tellan?

as for the rest, blow it out your ass straw man. the two things arent related and no matter how often you say them they wont ever be related. i will make it easy for you. day 1 pissing contests get you lynched, sooner or later they are used against people. so i stopped it before it got ridiculous, because it was frankly starting to getridiculous. and this holier than thou shit you spout about inno pov is bullshit, because everyone has different ways of playing at yours aint the only right one so its a moot point.

as for the bride comment, i aint the only one to point out that korbas steered the convo from the bride toward the assassin, but over the course of an argument i might change my mind, hell i might not. But i can remove my vote if i think its the best plan to remove and as far as i am concerned there aint one thing scummy about it.

[Spite]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 10:13 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 08 December 2009 - 10:00 PM, said:

With regards to the rest of what has been going on, it looks like Spite was fishing for a reaction with his vote on Korbas, didn't get one, so proceeded to kiss and make up with Spite. Tellan's criticism has some merit - going from absolute certainty of guilt to all pally and friendly like Spite did does look a bit crazy. And Spite has certainly reacted pretty violently to the accusations, which strikes me as odd. But the initial reaction fishing makes me doubt that this is anything other than a false positive.

EDIT: X-post with many

I dislike reaction fishing as a defence.
While people do it, it is also a very easy defence to make, it's not like anyone can say "No you weren't".

However, my case isn't just based on the voting-it's more based on the phrasing, the reasons he gives for removing which are completely nonsensical as an inno, as is his defence.

And yet you dont vote. so you arent sticking by your conviction either.

[Tellan]

Sorrit, on 08 December 2009 - 10:10 PM, said:

Kalse, on 08 December 2009 - 09:54 PM, said:

Sorrit is also srsbiznis apparently

okay sorrit so eloth is bein a bit weakwilled. thats about what i expect from people on day 1 when they only have 3 posts, so how does this make eloth scummy?

His weakwilled-ness fits the profile I was looking for. I don't see the point in blindly lynching someone vocal when the chances are the scum aren't going to be in that group. He sounded like he was trying to fit in, and he ducked an issue when he had plenty of time to talk about it. That's why I find him scummy.

Why wouldn't scum be in the vocal group?

Guessing at where the scum will be is just WIFOM.

[Spite]

Kalse, on 08 December 2009 - 10:07 PM, said:

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 10:02 PM, said:

well considering the winning conditions i think we will need a lot more to go on than anything in thread already to get a lynch with some substance and merit. We dont want to do scums job for them. unless we are going to intentionally make an example of a low poster for once i cant see a case working on someone with only 3 votes.

well thats not very optimistic

seriously though we very rarely have anything of substane to go on on day 1 anyways and when we do its usually wrong so what are you complaining about?

that wasnt a complaint.

[Spite]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 10:09 PM, said:

Another point is that I dislike being told to vote. Yes, I think you're scum. Does that mean I have to vote? I think i've made it pretty clear that I think your scum, it's hardly as if me voting you is suddenly going to make it any more obvious.
No-one was following your vote? I find it interesting that you state this as a reason for removal. If people aren't following your vote on someone you think is scum, it still doesn't make sense you would just drop it, and it's hardly as if you waited very long. If you think someone is scum, and no one is following your vote, surely you try to convince them? Kind of the point of why we build cases etc.

But I find it interesting that your reason for backtracking on Korbas was that no-one was following your vote. Why do you care if your vote is followed? It's hardly as if you were switching last minute from a 1 vote train to a L-1 vote train in order to get a lynch, in which case the reasoning could make sense.

Funny thing to be so concerned about. And it's not as if you were removing it to vote someone else, you were just removing it to avoid a pissing contest that could get you lynched.

You backtracked because no one was following your vote and because you didn't want to get into a pissing contest that could get you lynched. Real inno reasons.
Your defence just makes me think you're more scummy.

Vote Spite

missed this. bout fucking time to be honest after the shit your spouting.

[Tellan]

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 10:14 PM, said:

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 09:59 PM, said:

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 07:53 PM, said:

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 06:44 PM, said:

Why would you pursue an argument at all? You say it serves no purpose-then why vote him in the first place if it is so irrelevant.

Trying too hard to appear innocent does not strike me as innocent, as usually it is the scum who have that pre-occupation.

my point, genius is that the pursuit of a PISSING CONTEST on day 1 is a good way to get lynched and stop other people talking as they just sit back and say nothing. No one was follwoing my vote, and the constant arguing served no purpose. If you think i am scum tellan, vote. Cause your poor logic and weak strawmanning is boring me.

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 07:58 PM, said:

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 07:27 PM, said:

You then remove from the person you think is the bride, because you are worreid about being lycnhed. So, you're worried about getting into an argument against someone you think is the bride?
Now, and correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it the innos job to try and get the people they think are scum lynched?
Removing vote on someone you think is the bride just because you are worried about getting lynched yourself strikes me as scummy. And if scum use your mistakes to lynch you? Well, why do you think we look at the trains post-CF?

You couldnt get a lynch on me with this piss poor attemtp at an argument. Its day 1, tellan. I aint got proof of my suspicions so when i throw about accusations they are to guage reactions. as for train cf's, the point i am making which you are too stupid it seems to get is that continuing a pointless pissing contest on day 1 is the mistake they will use, and no looking at a cf after the fact will change the point that getting into a pissing contest and continuing it for no reason is a valid lynch reason. You are digging rather hard for a good reason to vote, when i think its pretty fucking obvious that theres nothing in what i said and so you are trying very hard to construe it as something scum would say.

vote tellan

because your obviously a symp and are trying to keep me in the spotlight with a foolish attempt at strawmanning a player who can shout longer and louder than you can.

So, you're not willing to enter a pissing contest with Korbas, but perfectly happy to be shouting longer and louder than me?

You're defence is that you are doing it for reactions, which is a weak defence, and can justify just about anything.

You said you didn't want to get in an argument because it would get you lynched.

And then saying that I am strawmanning?

I am pointing out what I see to be scummy behaviour. That you are unwilling to get involved in an argument, with someone you said you think is the bride no less, because of a fear of being lynched.

You say that the argument between you and Korbas would be pointless. And yet you think he's the bride? So, you're just going to let it drop like that? Hardly seems like inno play. And you claim that you "don't have proof of your suspicions", because it's day one. So, does that mean later you will?

The things you are saying do not make sense from an innocent POV. Why would an innocent remove vote so easily from someone he thinks is the bride-you never said you changed your mind, only that you didn't want to enter a pissing contest that could get you lynched. And that reason is just not something an inno would do-backtrack from someone they think is scum for fear of being lynched.

are you trying to insinuate i am roled for any reason there tellan?

as for the rest, blow it out your ass straw man. the two things arent related and no matter how often you say them they wont ever be related. i will make it easy for you. day 1 pissing contests get you lynched, sooner or later they are used against people. so i stopped it before it got ridiculous, because it was frankly starting to getridiculous. and this holier than thou shit you spout about inno pov is bullshit, because everyone has different ways of playing at yours aint the only right one so its a moot point.

as for the bride comment, i aint the only one to point out that korbas steered the convo from the bride toward the assassin, but over the course of an argument i might change my mind, hell i might not. But i can remove my vote if i think its the best plan to remove and as far as i am concerned there aint one thing scummy about it.

Were you trying to insinuate you were?

The two things aren't related?

So you mean when you said:

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 04:18 PM, said:

much as i enjoy pissing contests they have a habit of seeing people lynched for no other reason than everyone else sits back and does nothing while they are going on.

remove vote

You meant that the removal of your vote was not in fact because you didn't want to get involved in a pissing contest as they have a habit of seeing people lynched?


Oh wait, it was also because no one was following your vote right?

Edit: Fixing quotes.

This post has been edited by Tellan: 08 December 2009 - 10:20 PM

[Spite]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 10:09 PM, said:

Another point is that I dislike being told to vote. Yes, I think you're scum. Does that mean I have to vote? I think i've made it pretty clear that I think your scum, it's hardly as if me voting you is suddenly going to make it any more obvious.

isnt one of your points against me that it isnt inno behaviour not to be pursuing korbas because i called him the bride? You notice i never made a case when i did that? or did it wescape your mind to consider the vote wasnt entirely based on anything other than our argument perhaps? so its ok for you to complain when i remove my vote, but not for me to remove a vote on someone when my case is "i think your the bride"

i am confused by your attitude.

[Spite]

[quote name='Tellan' date='08 December 2009 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1260310765' post='709099']
[quote name='Spite' date='08 December 2009 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1260310465' post='709092']
You say that the argument between you and Korbas would be pointless. And yet you think he's the bride? So, you're just going to let it drop like that? Hardly seems like inno play. And you claim that you "don't have proof of your suspicions", because it's day one. [u]So, does that mean later you will?[/u]

The things you are saying do not make sense from an innocent POV. Why would an innocent remove vote so easily from someone he thinks is the bride-you never said you changed your mind, only that you didn't want to enter a pissing contest that could get you lynched. And that reason is just not something an inno would do-backtrack from someone they think is scum for fear of being lynched.
[/quote]

are you trying to insinuate i am roled for any reason there tellan?

as for the rest, blow it out your ass straw man. the two things arent related and no matter how often you say them they wont ever be related. i will make it easy for you. day 1 pissing contests get you lynched, sooner or later they are used against people. so i stopped it before it got ridiculous, because it was frankly starting to getridiculous. and this holier than thou shit you spout about inno pov is bullshit, because everyone has different ways of playing at yours aint the only right one so its a moot point.

as for the bride comment, i aint the only one to point out that korbas steered the convo from the bride toward the assassin, but over the course of an argument i might change my mind, hell i might not. But i can remove my vote if i think its the best plan to remove and as far as i am concerned there aint one thing scummy about it.
[/quote]
Were you trying to insinuate you were?

The two things aren't related?

So you mean when you said:

[quote name='Spite' date='08 December 2009 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1260289091' post='708929']
much as i enjoy pissing contests they have a habit of seeing people lynched for no other reason than everyone else sits back and does nothing while they are going on.

remove vote

[/quote]

You meant that the removal of your vote was not in fact because you didn't want to get involved in a pissing contest as they have a habit of seeing people lynched?


Oh wait, it was also because no one was following your vote right?
[/quote]


you should really be careful about pissing contests tellan and ensure before you start just what it is your getting into on day 1. I stated quite clearly how bad for a persons health they can be, but you seem intent on nit picking a day 1 vote and a fairly obvious inno statement and making it into something its not Now with very little time left in the day and me going to bed you are forcing me to consider what will happen when i go to sleep and how little regard i generally have for your so called innocent play style. i despise the attitude by the way, though i understand the motivation which is why i do believe you are a symp.

[Tellan]

Yes, it is one of my points that you aren't doing anything whatsoever to try and get the person you said you thought was the bride lynched.

Also, you had reasons for voting-you thought he was the bride. You never mentioned stopping thinking that.

And why would it be "ok" for you to remove vote on some on you have said you think is the bride.

If you think they are the bride, then what reason do you have for removing the vote?

But my main problem with you is the reasons you gave. That you didn't want involved in a pissing contest as that could get you lynched, and because no one was following them.

Neither of which makes any sense as an inno.

[Sorrit]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 10:15 PM, said:

Sorrit, on 08 December 2009 - 10:10 PM, said:

Kalse, on 08 December 2009 - 09:54 PM, said:

Sorrit is also srsbiznis apparently

okay sorrit so eloth is bein a bit weakwilled. thats about what i expect from people on day 1 when they only have 3 posts, so how does this make eloth scummy?

His weakwilled-ness fits the profile I was looking for. I don't see the point in blindly lynching someone vocal when the chances are the scum aren't going to be in that group. He sounded like he was trying to fit in, and he ducked an issue when he had plenty of time to talk about it. That's why I find him scummy.

Why wouldn't scum be in the vocal group?

Guessing at where the scum will be is just WIFOM.

It is a well known tendency of our group to lynch vocal players at the start. Day 1 is always random and risky, so if you're scum, you've got to be looking at minimizing your chances of getting caught out. And the way you do that is by keeping quiet. It's not WIFOM, since we never rake up the mud. Why would a scum play on the assumption I would argue along these lines? There's no percentage in that strategy at all.

[Spite]

I will tell you what tellan, if you can find my reasons for voting korbas, i will tell you my reasons for removing the vote.

[Spite]

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 10:25 PM, said:

Neither of which makes any sense as an inno.

you know for this statement alone i would see you lynched. Its about the tenth time you have spouted this horseshit and it just keeps getting riper.

[Tellan]

[quote name='Spite' date='08 December 2009 - 10:25 PM' timestamp='1260311100' post='709103']
[quote name='Tellan' date='08 December 2009 - 10:19 PM' timestamp='1260310765' post='709099']
[quote name='Spite' date='08 December 2009 - 10:14 PM' timestamp='1260310465' post='709092']
You say that the argument between you and Korbas would be pointless. And yet you think he's the bride? So, you're just going to let it drop like that? Hardly seems like inno play. And you claim that you "don't have proof of your suspicions", because it's day one. [u]So, does that mean later you will?[/u]

The things you are saying do not make sense from an innocent POV. Why would an innocent remove vote so easily from someone he thinks is the bride-you never said you changed your mind, only that you didn't want to enter a pissing contest that could get you lynched. And that reason is just not something an inno would do-backtrack from someone they think is scum for fear of being lynched.
[/quote]

are you trying to insinuate i am roled for any reason there tellan?

as for the rest, blow it out your ass straw man. the two things arent related and no matter how often you say them they wont ever be related. i will make it easy for you. day 1 pissing contests get you lynched, sooner or later they are used against people. so i stopped it before it got ridiculous, because it was frankly starting to getridiculous. and this holier than thou shit you spout about inno pov is bullshit, because everyone has different ways of playing at yours aint the only right one so its a moot point.

as for the bride comment, i aint the only one to point out that korbas steered the convo from the bride toward the assassin, but over the course of an argument i might change my mind, hell i might not. But i can remove my vote if i think its the best plan to remove and as far as i am concerned there aint one thing scummy about it.
[/quote]
Were you trying to insinuate you were?

The two things aren't related?

So you mean when you said:

[quote name='Spite' date='08 December 2009 - 04:18 PM' timestamp='1260289091' post='708929']
much as i enjoy pissing contests they have a habit of seeing people lynched for no other reason than everyone else sits back and does nothing while they are going on.

remove vote

[/quote]

You meant that the removal of your vote was not in fact because you didn't want to get involved in a pissing contest as they have a habit of seeing people lynched?


Oh wait, it was also because no one was following your vote right?
[/quote]


you should really be careful about pissing contests tellan and ensure before you start just what it is your getting into on day 1. I stated quite clearly how bad for a persons health they can be, but you seem intent on nit picking a day 1 vote and a fairly obvious inno statement and making it into something its not Now with very little time left in the day and me going to bed you are forcing me to consider what will happen when i go to sleep and how little regard i generally have for your so called innocent play style. i despise the attitude by the way, though i understand the motivation which is why i do believe you are a symp.
[/quote]
Yes, it is a fairly obvious inno statement that you are removing a vote from someone you think is scum because you are worried about your own health. Typical inno playstyle that. All I ever see innos doing is avoiding attacking the people they think are scum because they don't want to be lynched.

Nice way to threaten me though. I know perfectly well what I am getting into. What I am getting into is an argument with a person I think is scum. Maybe for you attacking people you think is scum makes no sense, but in more general terms, it is not really some sort of radical play.

[Tellan]

Spite, on 08 December 2009 - 10:28 PM, said:

Tellan, on 08 December 2009 - 10:25 PM, said:

Neither of which makes any sense as an inno.

you know for this statement alone i would see you lynched. Its about the tenth time you have spouted this horseshit and it just keeps getting riper.

You're saying it makes sense for an innocent not to attack the person they think is scum, because they don't want to get into an argument, and risk getting lynched? I'm sorry, but that really does not make sense.