[Tsundoku]

Cougar, on 09 December 2009 - 09:48 AM, said:

The only problem with the not having a general forum is that it still leaves the phoneix as the centre of the forum and unless we get away from that then we'll continue to put people off. I'm sorry guys but it's a fact that's a plain as can be. People check in, look at the Phoenix cos it's so busy and think 'I don't want to discuss what's messing with my groove, or whine about my girlfriend, I don't want to look at 4chan lite or play at running an imaginary pub' and leave. The recruitment centre is a good idea, but it doesn't solve the problem.I'll outline this for you as an example.Mal wanted to create a thread about someone who had a Malazan blog, he couldn't put it in a book discussion so he had to put it in the Inn, he expressed reservations about this because he felt that it would just have the piss taken out of it, which would make our membership look like dicks. He was right, I had to delete a series of posts that bordered on racism or at least lazy stereotyping and there were several that mocked someone for the termerity of actually liking the books and blogging about it. Then Mal kicked off and there was a lot of whining with various levels of fallout. Now the problem here was that there was nowhere to post it where it wouldn't be ripped on, and consider this, if that is the reception a post from the forum owner gets, what message does that send to anyone who wants to come on the forum cos they love Malazan, rather than Lolcats, the ORLY? owl and whatever other early noughties memes we are recycling to death this week.I really like the Inn, it's a top laugh, but it's totally at odds with any forum structure I can think off besides fudging 4chan, for a fan forum to have the de facto main forum as an anything goes off topic packed with exclusionary in (should that be Inn?) jokes etc is totally counter productive as it hardly eases people into the place. I'm not saying that there is anything malicious, but there are cliques and friendship groups in there. I'll not name names but in one of the cliquiest areas (very welcoming to newcomers but that's not the point, a clique is still off-putting) I noticed someone discussing another members first post in another forum. WTF? They can still read it, it's like the popular kids whispering about someone just loud enough for them to hear.

Mezla PigDog, on 09 December 2009 - 09:56 AM, said:

Sombra, on 09 December 2009 - 09:35 AM, said:

I think any negative press possibly stems from perceptions of elitism and snarkiness, not so much anything actually structural in basis. Just my 2 Aussie pesos. Negrep away.

What I believe the mods are trying to do here is keep the current users happy yet also work out ways to encourage new members to come and then stay so that this website can grow and be self-sufficient. That means the perception of elitism has to go, as much as we elitists may like it. A general area that isn't as caustic as the Inn will encourage some members to stay who have nowhere to chat when the book forum is quiet. The Inn isn't suitable enough for this. For starters it is not particularly appealing to female members of the community as evidenced by the fact you can count regular female posters on a cyber-geeks spare hand. It's like a boys bedroom. No female really wants to go in there without the e-equivalent of a HazMat suit.

Then may I suggest part of the problem is actually Post Content, not Forum Structure?

If people go to a fan site and find most of the traffic is in Off-Topic, and after perusing the actual book forums they feel they either have nothing to contribute, or it just doesn't work for them, then there's little we can do to change that? What I think you're saying is there's too much traffic in the off-topic section that is exclusive by nature, relative to the rest of the forum, especially the parts that are ostensibly the reason for its' existence. The Inn is not the first thing you see when you check the forum main page, you have to scroll down. Maybe by inverting the book forums so GotM is on top and the new stuff down the bottom may help. I honestly don't get the point about there being a watered down version of the book forums that are general in nature. People not wanting spoilers will get hit with them unless half this section has spoiler tags. What fascinating reading that would be.

It's very simple, you cannot do it by degrees, lest you go mad. You either don't mind spoilers, or you do. And then you read in an appropriate fashion. We can't make that decision for other people. We can put up all sorts of signage and even have an Abyss special "SPOILERS EAT YOUR BRAINNZZZ ROT YOUR TEETH DON'T GROW UP TO BE BIG AND STRONG SPOILERZZ" etc warning in the confirmation email, Braven Tooths, plus the heading to each book forum, but people will still click away how they want to. And then come to their own decision.

As for redressing the traffic balance by sections - how the hell do we do that? People go through stages, and if you've been around long enough like me you come here precisely FOR the community, and not so much the excellent on-topic discussions. This forum does not get as much traffic as other series I could mention for 2 very good reasons: sales and profile. When you get gargantuan sales and profile like aSoIaF, WoT, SoT and other impressive acronyms, the disparity between the different sections of the community is less immediately obvious because of the sheer volume of traffic. It's like any community, things are more obvious when it's a small town. Everyone knows everyone else, newcomers feel a little left out unless it's a warm reception and eventually - as has happened time and time again - some stay for a while, some for longer, some lurk eternally too afraid to risk poking their nose in and some just bugger off at the first opportunity. We can't change that, it's basic human social dynamics.

We can't really raze the town and rebuild it. We can renovate and upgrade though. How?

So we break this down into what steps related to the above we CAN do. As far as being more welcoming/inclusive and redressing where the focal point of our town should be ... well, I have no idea, sorry but that's the truth.

But I do know that the heart of a small town is the social centres, not so much the libraries. If the POINT of the town is that it's a "University" town, where the education and the social aspects are inseperable, maybe we should be looking at what Cambridge Town Council gets up to?

Eh, sorry if the above makes absolutely no sense or is just downright repellent and wrong. It's just the way I see it.

EDIT:
Just saw Cougars' comment about the Boys Club and the stats involved. I really don't know about this. Maybe start with some self-moderation in behaviour on the part of some of the prime offenders, and i very much include myself here. I guess I got so much into the social/clique thing I forgot how comments like those I could be considered known for could seem to a new person. I DO partially blame my home culture though on this one - we are incredibly irreverent shit stirrers by nature and sometimes it needs a real prod for us to realise how off-putting that can be to others. Mea Culpa, sorry.

But then again, while the numbers of general fandom may be more balanced, I'm fairly sure male geeks (for want of a better word) tend to generate disproportionately more social traffic than the ladies. Maybe it's a domination by increment thing, as many females withdraw slightly from the more boisterous nature of the sandpit, leaving those who don't mind it, along with all us silly shouting males?

So how to redress that? Hmmm ... are there any handy essays on this topic? Someone with great google-fu should maybe get onto that, plus my previous questions. I'm sure they have come up before somewhere else and someone blogged or did their PhD on it. Seriously, online social dynamics as a representation or extension of real world social dynamics is probably an entire field of sociology or even anthropology now.

Steven Erikson to the rescue maybe?

This post has been edited by Sombra: 09 December 2009 - 10:52 AM

[Mezla PigDog]

It's not just the girls though, is it? We don't have anywhere for older posters or younger ones. They either get grossed or patronised out of the Inn. Clicks are currency in the website business and if we want this place to support itself then we have to encourage everybody. We are lucky that it will be done in a way that keeps our grubby little Inn open. I imagine the only options are a free site with no functionality, a proper fan site that encourages traffic by welcoming all kinds of fans or a mysterious benefactor who does everything we want for free.

Now I'm no altruist. I don't particularly want the place full of vanilla plebs and teenagers but I am a realist AND a Malazan fan. A full on geek fan community will be ace and we can always go and debauch in the Inn when being nice gets too much.

ETA:

Sombra, on 09 December 2009 - 10:30 AM, said:

We can't really raze the town and rebuild it. We can renovate and upgrade though. How?

Well that's what we're discussing now isn't it?

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 09 December 2009 - 10:37 AM

[Cougar]

This is not about changing the Inn or discouraging existing members, but we have to do something that gives us a wider appeal. The Inn doesn't need to change at all, but as a welcome to the general user it's awful.

The problem is, by asking we are only getting the opinions of those who are comfortable and weren't put off by the Inn so it's actually a bit of a self defeating exercise to do so at all, but we thought people might have some useful ideas.

[Tsundoku]

Mezla PigDog, on 09 December 2009 - 10:34 AM, said:

Sombra, on 09 December 2009 - 10:30 AM, said:

We can't really raze the town and rebuild it. We can renovate and upgrade though. How?

Well that's what we're discussing now isn't it?

Yeeessss, what I meant is instead of a big confusing waffle we get specific, and I'm using the town metaphor to illustrate my point. Some here seem to want to change the town street planning to make it more attractive to tourists to convert them to residents. Others seem to feel it's our distinct "small hick town" feeling that discourages newcomers. And yet others seem to feel we should take our only tourist attraction, water it down and serve it in the renovated pub with it's lovely faux rustic charm, pushing the real pub further out by rezoning and diverting the roads that lead to the actual proper attraction that the tourists come here to check out.

One thing about the lack of book forum traffic. Have you noticed how the forums for the books that have come out since our last major move get a lot of traffic, but the older ones don't? This isn't just "new kid in town", but the fact that we have lost so much since the earlier books were the New Shit, where we spent a lot more of our time. Those threads aren't there any more. Stuff that new people may want to read, such as DHG crazy theories and answers, isn't there much, and forum stalwarts couldn't be bothered rewriting them, or participating if a new member happens to reincarnate an old thread.

So people who are new to the series - and thus deserving of more shiny stuff and friendly support - have comparatively little to read. Meanwhile all the traffic is going on over at the pub, because we just don't visit the older book forums much any more, but we DO socialise.

Is this making sense? I'm sorry but I'm having my usual problem conveying what passes for complex thought in my sad excuse for a brain.

@Cougar
Well, when you think about it, who else CAN we ask these questions of? maybe survey pages for recent arrivals, after 1 week, 1 month etc ... ?

EDIT: "wider appeal" - larger numbers of people finding us might help, be we can't affect that - it's up to SE, his publishers and the wider SFF/blogosphere community to do that. Maybe we can affect the latter ...
Secondly, higher retention of current traffic. Well, that ball is squarely in our court. I'm just trying to break things down into small segmants and go from there, using visual aids - just the way I think, sorry.

YET ANOTHER FREAKIN' EDIT:
Does anyone here have any marketing credentials? Real world or e-marketing, doesn't matter.

This post has been edited by Sombra: 09 December 2009 - 11:25 AM

[alt146]

Well I can see the merits of a general malazan-related (not necessarily book related) forum to discuss stuff that doesnt quite belong anywhere else, things like a brief description of what the books are about, who the authors are, upcoming events like book signings or release dates etc, since putting things in the inn generally means it isnt considered a 'serious' thread.

If the mods feel it might be useful an anything goes book discussion forum might also be worthwhile, but it shouldnt be confused with the general forum.

As for the attitude of the people here, that's something that will have to change slowly and possibly involve a bit of compromise on the part of the existing members. This is one of the most close knit online communities I've ever seen and the regulars love it because it's their place. But it seems that's exactly what stops a lot of people from sticking around and you can't change that suddenly without alienating the people who hang out here already. Trying to set up a newbie friendly area only goes so far, else you start to perpetuate the whole schoolyard thing with the very structure of the forum by saying 'that area is for you horde of new people who we want to have stick around, us cool crazy kids are going to carry on hanging out in the Inn'.

And I agree with Sombra's point about how much we've lost content wise.

[caladanbrood]

It's not all doom and gloom, here is a post from the new member thread earlier today:

Seguleh First, on 09 December 2009 - 03:06 AM, said:

This is overdo, I suppose. I've been a spectator in this forum for the most part but I am really happy that such a great place exists to help me with all my Malazan questions and such. Anyway, the books are great, the art is great, the maps are great... this forum is outstanding. Thanks for everything.

Now Cougar has actually explained what he means with this new general forum instead of just insulting everyone, it's a bit clearer, so thank you I'm not sure if simply starting a new board will actually work, but if we know what it's aimed towards, it is at least certainly worth a try - there's a difficulty to overcome with the simple attitude of many posters (and I'm not naming names either, but one of them would be Brood, that bastard), but I don't think the clique "problem" - it's not quite the right word - is really one that will be very easy to combat. People have groups of friends, who they will tend to talk more to and agree with, back each other up etc. - that's not just a forum phenomenon, but we have user groups, the Abyssmal army, High House Mafia, and what are they is not actively organised cliques?

I for one am no fan of the 4chan-ness of the board, though that has actually decreased significantly in the last 6 months, so maybe we're headed in the right direction already. Though maybe that's just because I don't visit the silly pictures thread - if that is the case then at least it is contained, and warnings can be applied.




Basically, I think it just needs to be made very clear what this new board is for. I think I understand it now, but it took quite a while to decipher it's actual purpose, and I imagine if that confusion is not addressed before or at least when it is implemented, then, it runs the risk of turning into the Inn v2.0, which is clearly to be avoided. Maybe a nice clear post with what sort of topics should be in there stickied at the top of said board - and nothing that involves (oh it's obvious you stupid people) 







As an aside, I would also suggest a forum-wide change in moderatorly attitude to be implemented with the other changes, from "Oh, you people are such hard work and I hate you all" to something more... well, like mods. Some offenders are worse than others

[Cougar]

It isn't that cliques are a problem, per se, it's that they form in the Inn and they are undeniably exclusionary and because the Inn is obviously the go to day to day forum then people struggle to break in, it's not out of maliciousness and, with the exception of a very few incidents they are not negative.

Oh and fuck you Brood. Saturday, you die.

You lot are hard work I get sent loads of stuff questioning modding decisions which I do not have time to respond to, opinions are like arseholes and this place is no different, but I do it cos I like the forum and someone has to, we can't all be nicey nicey and since Mal takes a back seat to concentrate on the technical aspects etc and Jen is gone it falls to me to do the grumpy mod stuff. However, I can not tell you how much easier it has become in the last 12 months since people started being a bit more responsible for themselves, so thanks for that.

What people don't undestand or care to take notice of is how much work goes in that you don't see, how many spambots we deal with, how many times we tidy up cos someone doesn't do their code properly, sort out spoilers etc. Since some of you have modded here and other places, you'll know that it's galling to constantly have decisions whined about from people who feel they have a sense of entitlement and actually know nothing about what is going on. I had an eruption of moaning a while ago and even some very stupid threats (e-threats, it'll be a cold day in hell before I'd worry about brawling with a Malazite) over one issue.

The modding attitude is merely a response to the attitude we have to deal with, and Brood you can hardly talk, you were a serial abuser of powerz.

[caladanbrood]

I know exactly how annoying it is modding this place, there was a good 6-month period where I was the only regular mod on the board, and that's when I quit because of all the crap I had to deal with. All I'm saying is that if the idea is to make this place more welcoming and attractive to new members, mods need to stop abusing members in public.

I dunno how else to say it really. I'm not trying to get at you personally, and I think you're good at what you do, but if a new member wandered into this thread, or the one Mal posted in the Inn which you mentioned earlier before it was culled, and saw Admins and Mods laying into current members and swearing at them, are they going to feel like it's a welcoming place? Surely you see what I mean? It's like if you work in any customer service role - rage and hate as much as you like in private, argue with individual members via PM, but on the board, the staff have to appear welcoming, helpful and friendly, otherwise it puts people off. It's far from the major problem, but it is a problem, and a bit of self-awareness from everyone would go a long way, mods and members alike. And yes, I include myself in that.

This post has been edited by caladanbrood: 09 December 2009 - 03:45 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

caladanbrood, on 09 December 2009 - 02:45 PM, said:

but we have user groups, the Abyssmal army, High House Mafia, and what are they is not actively organised cliques?

Apart from Wiki Contributors and Malazan Artists (i.e. useful people), I vote for ditching user groups. The Mafia and Abyssmal groups seem like terrifying cults to me.

[Cougar]

Customer service - if I wasn't going to kill you before, I will now. You aren't customers, you don't pay or contribute. We are all members we just happen to be the ones who have to mod, I can live with being unpopular so long as I still enjoy the place and I do.

I'm fine with what you said Brood, as soon as people stop sending us PMs complaining about trivial stuff as if they own the place, I'll be the calm little centre of the universe.

The staff attitude is merely a response to the users'

[D'rek]

Okay, so I can get the idea of this general forum and yeah, it makes sense and seems useful to me to have all those threads out of the inn that deserve to be elsewhere but cant fit in the book forums. I'm still not sold on the idea of having the "who's best sword" type threads in there, though. Would it be so bad to have the general forum for stuff like Mal's thread and a Collected Stories thread for discussion of all books, seperately?

[Cougar]

Well I guess it'll work or it won't, it could turn out to be a total non-starter, but I'd like to at least see.

[D'rek]

Cougar, on 09 December 2009 - 04:43 PM, said:

Well I guess it'll work or it won't, it could turn out to be a total non-starter, but I'd like to at least see.

Okie doke. Do we have a planned time for implementing these changes, I'm kinda intrigued to see this now...

[teholbeddict]

Well I've been following this thread quietly since it's been posted and I just wanted to add my opinion for what it's worth if anything. I do like the idea of a specific, clearly marked area for new members. It will be nice to give them a welcome, but I also think it will be extremely beneficial as far as allowing them to learn the ropes of the forum, as well a the ins and out of posting properly. Too many times, new members or first time posters are jumped all over for failing to use spoilers, asking somethig that's been asked before, or posting something in the wrong section. Many times I've seen them be accused of not using spoilers purposely just to be asses. I don't believe that's the case, I just think they probably have no idea what spoilers are, or maybe unsure of where a specific posts belongs. I know I didn't magically figure all of these things out the minute I joined the board. If the rules and methods of posting are clearly laid out, I think it will make them more straight forward on a whole, and reduce the amount of lurking time a person does before finally feeling comfortable putting a post out there.

I am divided on the issue of the general area, and I don't know if it's even so much the concept of it, as the way it's been presented and defended here. I completely understand the need for attracting new people to the board, and making the book portion of things more accessible. I agree that we need new membership, however doing so at the cost of alienating your core members who post here on a daily basis is not right. Some of what's been said in this post about regular members, and in response to the concerns they've posted here have been rude and a bit out of line as well. It's been stated that the purpose of this post was to get some feed back, and to generate ideas. The idea of the general forum was put forth, and a good number of people responded. The fact that they weren't in line with or approving what was originally put forth by Cougar, does not mean they aren't valid. You can't ask for people's opinions and then say allowing them to do so was a waste of time because they aren't what you wanted to hear. I think when a regular poster puts forth a well written concern it should be addressed and considered, if for no other reason, than they use the board day in and day out. If something that's proposed seems like it may not run smoothly or would cause confusion, they would probably be the ones to realize it. Rather than just shooting them down, listening to what they have to say and trying to compromise or using what they have to say to improve your idea would probably be of more benefit. There have been several people voicing similar concerns, so I don't think it's general griping or that they should be brushed off as malcontents. When someone says spoilers may be confusing, don't just say stop shitting your pants, and that it wouldn't be complicated if people would do what they're told. The concept has it's merits, but the snarky attittude being used in presenting it or response to people's concerns is not helping get across what needs to be done. We want to encourage new members to post, but at the same time regular members should be encouraged to post and express their opinions as well. Jumping all over them is not the way to do so. Not to mention as a new member reading this post I would be scared to death to offer up an opinion after seeing the way people have been responded to when they do say something.

As for the board not being female friendly, I'm kind of torn on the issue, but, I'm glad this is actually being addressed. It's something I've mentioned many times in the past and felt that I was blown off about. It's better than it used to be now that things like the hawt girls thread are gone, and some of the comments have been toned down. Those were my major issues with the board in the past as far as being a female malazanite and finding things offensice. I think the male members of the board are generally very friendly and easy to get along with. I manage to get along well and fit in without having to resort to flirting or being smutty. I think if you have something to say and add to the board whether male of female, people generally welcome you with open arms. It can be overwhelming to be a female on here, because there are so few of us that it automatically garners you alot more attention, probably more than most of us want. I don't think the board in general or the members are scaring females off though. I may be the wrong girl to ask though, because I also participate in alot of the sports threads, and am not super girlie. It would be interesting to hear what the other ladies think about the situation.

As for the mods, I find many of them easy to approach via PM when I have a problem or concern, others not so much. For the most part I've always found them helpful and they do try to resolve things in a timely manner. I agree with Brood though that the overall attitude from some of them at times can definitely be off-putting. A mod with a bad or surly attitude towards people, is no more welcoming to a new member than the issues with the inn. A change in that attitude would probably go a long way to encouraging new membership. Again, as Brood said, not all the mods are guilty of this.

Edit: Sorry if this is a cross post or some of it's already been addressed, I'm at work and this took a while to type up.

This post has been edited by teholbeddict: 09 December 2009 - 05:01 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

Can I just chip in on the moderating debate. As a (mostly) independent observer, I have a lot of sympathy for the mods. Hetan, Mal and Cougar particularly have invested time in discussing how best to move the board forward for everyone's benefit. At the end of the day, somebody has to make executive decisions here. If we ran the place as a democracy, nothing would ever get done since most of us have real lives. If the mods have started to think down a certain path and we don't like it, it's pretty much tough shit. Think of what those guys have to with the IPS server errors of doom and the forum upgrade and when a forum member goes mental and has to be banned. All we do is post a quick "Thanks" now and then. In return I think we should take the occasional annoying post deletion or snub of our opinions on the chin or we will end up bemoaning modding style ad nauseum.

And Cougar loves being an arse. Let him enjoy himself. At least we can all hold on to the fact that if the new General forum doesn't work out he'll have to get creative about avoiding a large slice of humble pie

[Anomander]

caladanbrood, on 09 December 2009 - 02:45 PM, said:

I for one am no fan of the 4chan-ness of the board, though that has actually decreased significantly in the last 6 months, so maybe we're headed in the right direction already. Though maybe that's just because I don't visit the silly pictures thread - if that is the case then at least it is contained, and warnings can be applied.

A noticeable upside to getting rid of the bulk of pic threads.

I've not much to add at this point which hasn't already been said but I can see a problem arising with this "General Book Forum" idea. As it stands a fair number of the book related forums suffer from a lack of use, in particular the ones for GotM, DG, etc. While I think reorganizing the layout will help some we risk having a long term problem with most of the book related discussions happening in one place. I know it'll start off as "this doesn't fit anywhere else" but you could probably say that for a lot of discussions which span more than one book. Now I haven't frequented the book forums much but just how many topics fit that description now?

I do like Sombra's idea of alerting new members to the spoiler system in the greeting message.

[Cougar]

Tehol try to remember that I am a member too, my opinion in here is my opinion, this is about debating it to work through the issues. You have to step away from the idea that the mods exist in isolation, we are trying to get the things worked out.

I'm sorry but I can't addess that systematically but I'll try to deal with the parts that attack me.

My point about it actually being a bit pointless to ask the forum is perfectly valid as your post illustrates , like I said some time ago, asking the people here can only produce a result based on people who weren't put off so it only goes so far. Nevertheless through some of the arguing a lot of good points have come out.

There is no place for being sensitive about stuff in this thread. If this wasn't a place where we could all get the forum issues in out in the open and be honest then I don't know where we can, we need to work through this stuff cos I for one do not want a repeat of the debacle involving the Naina thread, nobody came out of that with a shred of dignity intact, not any of us.

However, the idea of proposing a general aread is going to work or not, peoples doubts about it are much the same as mine, I can't help it if I find the idea of everyone getting worked up about spoilers vaguely ludicrous when they manage it perfectly well most of the time in every other bit of the forum, perhaps I should start using smileys or make a joke out of telling people they are wrong like Abyss does, but neither of those are my style. Although there is defintiely something to be said for making the tricks and quirks of working the forum clearer at the start as it is a rather idiosyncratic place.

You say a mod with a surly attitude can be off putting, and that is a fair point. Well flip it round, members who constantly whine and are precious as hell are totally off putting, having members constantly tell you what is out of line is annoying, or in one case recently, being told how I should mod and what my job was and being told not to interfere. Try to understand the frustration of being constantly slated for things you do with your free time to try and keep an internet fan community running because you think the place is brilliant and don't want it to die.

[Cougar]

PS: The general forum has not been decided on yet, that is why I asked the question, to see if people had the same reservations I had. I've got annoyed cause all people have done is gone on about spoilers, which you have all shown you are capable of managing for years.

[teholbeddict]

I am sorry if you took that as a personal attack Cougar, for the most part I was trying to make a point about your general forum suggestion. The point I was trying to make is that I thought the idea of the general forum wasn't well received because of the way it was presented. Every time someone has had something to say that isn't all for the opinion, they are just being immediately shot down. I was just saying if people's concerns on the matter could be at least considered, and talked about in a more civilized manner, the idea would probably be better received. There would probably be less confusion about it as well. It was about dimissing people's concerns or shooting them down, that's all. The idea has some merit, and it will work or it won't. People have had some good points though, which would go a long ways to improving the concept, and it seems like they aren't being heard. It's not an issue of sensitivity, it's an issue of just general respect for fellow board members. I have no problem with people getting heated about something, but there is a way of doing that, and still conducting yourself appropriately.

The mod thing, was the least of what I had to say, I really didn't think it would be blown out of proportion. I don't want to draw attention away from the OP here, so I think it's best to get back to suggestions.

[Jusentantaka]

teholbeddict, on 09 December 2009 - 05:00 PM, said:

...lots of agree-worthy stuff...

As for the board not being female friendly, I'm kind of torn on the issue, but, I'm glad this is actually being addressed. It's something I've mentioned many times in the past and felt that I was blown off about. It's better than it used to be now that things like the hawt girls thread are gone, and some of the comments have been toned down. Those were my major issues with the board in the past as far as being a female malazanite and finding things offensice. I think the male members of the board are generally very friendly and easy to get along with. I manage to get along well and fit in without having to resort to flirting or being smutty. I think if you have something to say and add to the board whether male of female, people generally welcome you with open arms. It can be overwhelming to be a female on here, because there are so few of us that it automatically garners you alot more attention, probably more than most of us want. I don't think the board in general or the members are scaring females off though. I may be the wrong girl to ask though, because I also participate in alot of the sports threads, and am not super girlie. It would be interesting to hear what the other ladies think about the situation.

I've been on general interweb fora since the 90s, back when being a girl on a forum was like walking naked into a D&D convention, replete with the slobbering, marriage proposals and an unforgettable need to bathe after pretty much any topic where the elusive 'female' was even mentioned. Compared to that, this place is some sort of Whileawayan paradise, albeit without the very cool communicators. I'll admit though I really don't get where any woman more than about five years younger than me (lets say 'twenty-somethings) is coming from when they complain about sexist stuff, and I'm also not girley either, I like my nerdery and rock climbing, martial arts, sky diving and other unwomanly pursuits as much as shoes, dresses and perfume. And I'm smutty... which is possibly a direct result of the Dark Ages of the Interweb.

So, yeah, I don't think anything is particularly off putting towards the female here, unless she's particularly interested in taking some things that get said as fact/belief rather than a joke, in which case she'll probably find the whole world to be sexist and evil.


And being a moderator is a crap job. Whether some tame corporate message board or a big honkin' general random shtuff board, there's whining headed your way all the time, and basically, it just sucks.