[Tapper]

Fifa did its work in making sure there are as few surprises as possible in the group stages
Germany has an interesting group, as STd says, group E I disagree about. Netherlands shouldn't have a whole lot of trouble, except against Cameroon if/when they play very physical. Our midfield isn't too athletic and vulnerable to powerplay and will be overcome that way, second place may go to Denmark.

I predict Italy to win, Spain and Portugal to come far, and most of the traditional powers (Germany, France, Argentinia, Netherlands, Brazil) to do badly.

England will do well, but won't win. It has amazed me for some time how the team with imho arguably the best midfield in the world(and one of the worst goalies) can have problems with field control, but there it is - England does not seek to dominate the field and it lets them down time and time again. As a competition, the English is both the strongest and the most modern of them all, but the national squad is generally playing very, very conservatively - was doing so under Erikson and Capello is not the man to change that.

[lord of tragedy]

lay of the crack tapper. your starting to sound like steve maclaren. england have no balls. which is why they have no 'field control'. and i think spains midfield is slightly superior and la liga home to a slightly more modern and innovative league. sometimes having three teams full of foreigners in the champions league semis does not reflect well on the league or national team. england hasn't produced a coach of note since bobby robson. and howard wilkinson is head of development. ugly long ball clogger. enough said.

[Tapper]

lord of tragedy, on 05 December 2009 - 10:22 PM, said:

lay of the crack tapper. your starting to sound like steve maclaren. england have no balls. which is why they have no 'field control'. and i think spains midfield is slightly superior and la liga home to a slightly more modern and innovative league. sometimes having three teams full of foreigners in the champions league semis does not reflect well on the league or national team. england hasn't produced a coach of note since bobby robson. and howard wilkinson is head of development. ugly long ball clogger. enough said.

Underlined: he's an good coach, imho. Despite that less than stellar performance as England manager. FC Twente has around the fifth budget in the dutch competition and he's having them leading the league tables despite the loss of two outstanding wingers and their captain last season - and maybe his expertise carries more weight than your own undoubtedly well researched and backed up by facts opinion?

Anyway, I think the main reason is lack of an attacking coach. Erikson was carefulness personified, same for Capello. England does have the players - Gerrard on 4, Lampard, Lennon, random leftie and Rooney behind the targetman is an exciting offensive midfield with lots of options and enough stamina to keep going throughout the entire match - if allowed to constantly overtake the opponent, which they are not.

I do not (entirely) agree on the Spanish competition being superior or more modern. Barcelona, definately - but it is the exception to the rule - Real fits your description of Arsenal, Man U and Chealsea to a tee. Betis, Valencia and Deportivo aren't that amazing. Sure, more Spaniards play there than englishmen in the premier league, but the competition in the PL is a lot heavier than in Spain, so you could say that the English that do make it, tend to have seen it all.

[lord of tragedy]

tapper english football is kick and rush. there is a distinct lack of comfort with holding onto possesion. they tend to hoof things long rather than hold onto it. they are effective when something is happening. bot very limited at trying to make something happen gerard at his best running onto balls. can't do anything from a standing position. lennon similar, wright philips also, barry is incredibly limited lampard can't cope with any pressure.

maclaren is shite and his relative success may make a point about the desolation of dutch of dutch football. the national side will look really good in the group and fall apart in the last 16. van persie? not fit to lace bergkamp's boots.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Italy has an incredibly easy group( not that I doubt we'll be terribly bad, go in crisis and move on at the last minute only to lose at the /8). France was also lucky.

The winner will be, IMO, either Brazil or Spain. I propend more for Spain

[Macros]

Van persies not fit to lace bergkamps boots?
A bit far methinks.
And I have to agree with tapper, take Barca and real out of La Liga and all you're left with is average teams, possibly valencia and athletico could hack it. but the majourity of the spanish league would struggle in the premiership.

to say englands footballer are thump and run is quite simply ridiculous, I maght hate the twat but rooney has alot more to his game than hoof and run. Same for lampard gerrard lennon and basically the entire team. Glen johnsons attacking ability is fantasstic and the only time he puts the show through the ball is for a cross that he will have run practically to the backline to make or a shot. A lot fo technically gifted players there that just don't gel well.

[Tiste Simeon]

If we can beat the USA I will be happy. I have absolutely nothing against the USA at all (before RLY shows up ranting...) but I spent a number of months working out there and I may have over exaggerated how great we are at football (they kept going on about how great they were at tons of stuff and this was the one thing I knew they couldn't argue back about...) so if we lose, I'm screwed...

Seriously England did fairly well in qualifying and while I have a good bit of British cynicism about how they will do I am looking forward to it immensely... I always like the surprise teams and I would like to see a lot of that this year. As in France and Germany not making it through. That would be cool.

[Shadowthrone]

Macros, on 06 December 2009 - 02:37 PM, said:

Van persies not fit to lace bergkamps boots?
A bit far methinks.
And I have to agree with tapper, take Barca and real out of La Liga and all you're left with is average teams, possibly valencia and athletico could hack it. but the majourity of the spanish league would struggle in the premiership.

to say englands footballer are thump and run is quite simply ridiculous, I maght hate the twat but rooney has alot more to his game than hoof and run. Same for lampard gerrard lennon and basically the entire team. Glen johnsons attacking ability is fantasstic and the only time he puts the show through the ball is for a cross that he will have run practically to the backline to make or a shot. A lot fo technically gifted players there that just don't gel well.

Its shocking the lack of general knowledge about the current La Liga campaign in this thread. I can understand as a fan that you would think that EPL > La Liga but do you watch La Liga on a consistent basis?

I watch at least two matches from both of these leagues every week and I can tell you that the competitiveness of La Liga from 1-20 is much better than EPL. The fact that Villareal and Atletico Madrid sit below tenth spot with the recent success they have had is quite shocking.

Maybe if you take out RM, Barca, Sevilla, Valencia, and Atletico than you are left with average teams but these teams are still more technically gifted (and better maybe) than the "average" teams in England. The bottom ten in England I would say are less than or equal to the bottom ten in Spain. The top six in England might be a bit better than the top six in Spain but that speaks to the obscene amount of foreign money that has been thrown about the past number of years.

Just my 2 sense

Back on topic the draw was kind to most of Europe's big guns. Groups B and G are the toughest imho.

Argentina have Nigeria, Greece, and S. Korea. Greece and S. Korea are both capable of going through to the next round. Any African teams in the tournament will have a huge supporting base and cannot be counted out.

Group G is the group of Death I agree. Ivory Coast is the best African team in the tourny and Portugal are giants of Europe. N. Korea are little known and could pose problems. Nevertheless I would predict Brazil and I.C. go through and we can all watch Ronaldo cry again.

This post has been edited by Shadowthrone: 06 December 2009 - 06:12 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Shadowthrone, on 06 December 2009 - 06:06 PM, said:

we can all watch Ronaldo cry again.

That already wins my vote for moment of the tournament!

[HoosierDaddy]

Well, if it's from Rooney stomping on his bits again then I must say I'll have some sympathy for him.

[dktorode]

The party here in Cape Town was absolute madness...lucky i could walk to it as i live around the corner

Got my tickets confirmed for...
Italy vs Paraguay
and
France vs Uruguay

Gonna try and get the only 2nd round game here at cape town as its H1 (most likely Spain) vs G2 (Portugal, Brazil or Ivory caost)
Lets hope i get lucky cause these tickets are going to definitely be drawn as people will apply for them en masse.

[Tapper]

@ Shadowthrone: that is a very well reasoned post. I have to reply that I think it is going to be pretty hard to put them on par or compare them. I don't have the time (or the access) to view as much live coverage as you do, but I'll try to answer anyway

I think Spanish teams in general struggle against the slightly faster and somewhat more physical play of english teams (I did not do a whole lot of research, just checked the CL results for 2008 for confirmation of my theory, and 2008 was an absurd year for english football). I can't say which is better, just that the English are a bad matchup for Spanish teams. Whether that is down to the quality of the teams involved or to the general characteristics of the playstyle, I can't say. Imho, this should mean that the english national team should try and play like an EPL team, rather than the conservative 'Italian' style they seem to pursue under Erikson and Capello.

[Dinivan]

Everyone here in Germany is all amazed what an easy group we have. I can't help but disagree, it's going to be extremely tough, Serbia, Ghana and Australia can beat us on a good day anytime. And honestly, our performance lately was shite.

I still think that we'll bite through as second behind serbia, but if aren't knocked out the next stage we'll surely lose the quarterfinals.

I honestly hope - and I think there is a really fair chance that it'll happen - that Portugal comes third in their group.

Personally, I'd say it's either Spain or Netherlands for the title.

This post has been edited by Dinivan: 07 December 2009 - 11:02 AM

[Tapper]

Dinivan, on 07 December 2009 - 11:01 AM, said:

Everyone here in Germany is all amazed what an easy group we have. I can't help but disagree, it's going to be extremely tough, Serbia, Ghana and Australia can beat us on a good day anytime. And honestly, our performance lately was shite.

I still think that we'll bite through as second behind serbia, but if aren't knocked out the next stage we'll surely lose the quarterfinals.

I honestly hope - and I think there is a really fair chance that it'll happen - that Portugal comes third in their group.

Personally, I'd say it's either Spain or Netherlands for the title.

As a dutchie, I can tell you it is not going to happen. Too many of our good players don't play regularly at their clubs (Van der Vaart, van Nistelrooy, Huntelaar), our defenders are not that good, and our creative players (Robben, Van Persie) are either prone to injury or actually injured. On top of that, José Morino has apparently freed Sneijder from defensive duties at Inter and rumor says he will claim that same right in the national 11, which might mean that Van Marwijk isn't going to take him to SA at all. Van Bommel is having a rather bad season at Bayern so far, although you are probably a better judge of that than I am Edson Braafheid, currently Bayerns back is one of our backs - nuff said .

Only Kuyt is consistently playing on ahis customary level, and Van der Sar is imho the world´s best goalie, but he may decline the invitation to go to SA.

This post has been edited by Tapper: 07 December 2009 - 12:24 PM

[Dinivan]

Tapper, on 07 December 2009 - 12:22 PM, said:

Dinivan, on 07 December 2009 - 11:01 AM, said:

Everyone here in Germany is all amazed what an easy group we have. I can't help but disagree, it's going to be extremely tough, Serbia, Ghana and Australia can beat us on a good day anytime. And honestly, our performance lately was shite.

I still think that we'll bite through as second behind serbia, but if aren't knocked out the next stage we'll surely lose the quarterfinals.

I honestly hope - and I think there is a really fair chance that it'll happen - that Portugal comes third in their group.

Personally, I'd say it's either Spain or Netherlands for the title.

As a dutchie, I can tell you it is not going to happen. Too many of our good players don't play regularly at their clubs (Van der Vaart, van Nistelrooy, Huntelaar), our defenders are not that good, and our creative players (Robben, Van Persie) are either prone to injury or actually injured. On top of that, José Morino has apparently freed Sneijder from defensive duties at Inter and rumor says he will claim that same right in the national 11, which might mean that Van Marwijk isn't going to take him to SA at all. Van Bommel is having a rather bad season at Bayern so far, although you are probably a better judge of that than I am Edson Braafheid, currently Bayerns back is one of our backs - nuff said .

Only Kuyt is consistently playing on ahis customary level, and Van der Sar is imho the world´s best goalie, but he may decline the invitation to go to SA.

van Bommel was injured for most of this season so far, and his few return games look solid but not spectacular.
Braafheid on the other hand is a different matter (that guy really is in your team? that totally screws my estimation ). I'd say that while Van der Sar is perhaps not the best (though I had trouble to nominate one) he is certainly among the top three or five, and was in great form in the last matches that I have seen him in (which was... quite a while ago)

Still, there is hardly any team that have convinced me. Both Brazil and - even more so - Argentina haven't impressed me lately, Italia won't cut it, I'm not even talking about France and Portugal, and England won't get a title without bribing the referee + having the homebonus

So actually, Netherlands and Spain are the ones that, in my eyes, did quite well, though of course you now your own team better than me, so I'll take your word and forget about them when the time comes to bet the tournament.

[caladanbrood]

Since Quiros took over, Portugal have been a shadow of what they were under Scolari, so I don't really see them getting too far. Well, just far enough to knock England out, but no further.

[Shadowthrone]

Quote

I think Spanish teams in general struggle against the slightly faster and somewhat more physical play of english teams (I did not do a whole lot of research, just checked the CL results for 2008 for confirmation of my theory, and 2008 was an absurd year for english football). I can't say which is better, just that the English are a bad matchup for Spanish teams. Whether that is down to the quality of the teams involved or to the general characteristics of the playstyle, I can't say. Imho, this should mean that the english national team should try and play like an EPL team, rather than the conservative 'Italian' style they seem to pursue under Erikson and Capello.

Yes the past few years I would say that the top English teams have an up on the rest of the teams in the world (except Barcelona who are the most successful team of the last five years). CL results do not lie. Why is this the case? I believe its the "obscene amounts of money" that I mentioned previously. Even the current Barcelona side cannot compete with the spending power of United, City, Chelsea, Madrid etc.

However this is just a miniscule sample of English sides and I believe that this is the only sample that could possibly be better than La Liga. One could argue the fact that those top four English sides (Liverpool, Arsenal, United, and Chelsea) are barely English teams or play an english style. Liverpool might have Carra and Gerrard but the rest of their team are internationals and up until this season they played with a Spanish flair with Alonso calling the shots.

Arsenal might as well be the French national side and their style is very Barca-esque. Chelsea and United are more hybrid with a fair amount of english style in their play.

Quote

Since Quiros took over, Portugal have been a shadow of what they were under Scolari, so I don't really see them getting too far. Well, just far enough to knock England out, but no further.

True you are Brood. Portugal forgot how horrible Madrid were under Querios (spelling lol). They will be out in the Group stages as Ronaldo has never found how to convert club form to international play.

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Tapper, on 07 December 2009 - 12:22 PM, said:

Dinivan, on 07 December 2009 - 11:01 AM, said:

Everyone here in Germany is all amazed what an easy group we have. I can't help but disagree, it's going to be extremely tough, Serbia, Ghana and Australia can beat us on a good day anytime. And honestly, our performance lately was shite.

I still think that we'll bite through as second behind serbia, but if aren't knocked out the next stage we'll surely lose the quarterfinals.

I honestly hope - and I think there is a really fair chance that it'll happen - that Portugal comes third in their group.

Personally, I'd say it's either Spain or Netherlands for the title.

As a dutchie, I can tell you it is not going to happen. Too many of our good players don't play regularly at their clubs (Van der Vaart, van Nistelrooy, Huntelaar), our defenders are not that good, and our creative players (Robben, Van Persie) are either prone to injury or actually injured. On top of that, José Morino has apparently freed Sneijder from defensive duties at Inter and rumor says he will claim that same right in the national 11, which might mean that Van Marwijk isn't going to take him to SA at all. Van Bommel is having a rather bad season at Bayern so far, although you are probably a better judge of that than I am Edson Braafheid, currently Bayerns back is one of our backs - nuff said .

Only Kuyt is consistently playing on ahis customary level, and Van der Sar is imho the world´s best goalie, but he may decline the invitation to go to SA.

I like Netherlands, I think they are a good team, but if you really count Huntelaar as one of your best players then even N.Korea can beat you. If you look at what he does with Milan, when he plays, it's a laugh.
As for Van der Sar he's without doubt a very goo goalie(despite how he sucked when he played with Juventus) but he's not the best. That is still, IMO, Buffon.

[Use Of Weapons]

Top keepers in the world at the moment:BuffonCasillasReinaGivenVan Der SarLlorisAnd the Brazil keeper, Julio Cesar, is pretty nifty too.

[Tiste Simeon]

The Netherlands always start off looking great but can't produce when needing to, it seems to me...