[Abyss]

Fist Gamet, on 11 September 2009 - 04:24 PM, said:

...
Seriously, the battle slaughter of the BH was so well done. I was utterly compelled. I was so tired but there was no way I could put it down and stop at that point. The heavies going toe to toe just cut me up. The end of the Khundryl was, for me, the only weak point as we should have gotten a little more out of that. They date back to the Chain of Dogs, crossed half the world and flung themselves into a suicidal charge...and that was it. Bit more pen time required.
As for the Bridgeburners, QB, the marines...well, you guys have already said it all. Brilliant.

PS - QB can't really be dead...can he? Something tells me we haven't seen the last of him.

One of my absolute favourite points in the 'slaughter' is when Brys looks over and realizes that altho the KN have advanced halfway through the Bonehunters, they have been stopped.

The Khundryl... i had the same reaction as you initially but the Khundryl got some good face time during the book (i particularly enjoyed their response to the Bolkado and Krughava's analysis) and this was a logical end to their storyline. There may be some survivors - not Gaul but perhaps one of his kids or Rafala. The bit where they raise their swords in silence and charge was a nice flashback to DG and HoC.

- Abyss, ... was, however, a bit sick at the KN Khundryl buffet at the end there...

[Illuyankas]

I know exactly what you mean. They taste nothing like crow! It's a total ripoff.

[BridgeBurner]

Fist Gamet, on 11 September 2009 - 04:24 PM, said:

Awesomeness! HAIL THE MARINES!!

Yes, that was awesome.

I loved this whole sequence, even if it meant that a lot of characters I liked were dying in it. We'll have to wait a year before we are sure who survived.

I liked the whole Hedge-starting-his-own-Bridgeburners thing too, and how it culminated in this battle. Sappers rock.

[Ulrik]

Finished, damnnt, this was hard

1) Whole Barghast storyline ruined me. I didnt see it as weak, no, for me it was hard as nails. Firstly suicide and desacration od Onos Toolan, after that hobbling of Hetan (that proud Hetan, damn!) and Cafal´s death after series of failing. And then Toc´s refusal... Well Barghast line was like Awl´s, whole "culture" anihilated because of individual flaws and inconsistency. But there is still Spax tribe...

2) Quick Ben...OK, Im a little angry to se him anihilated (really? oh, this time probably yes...)...but who knows, Hedge also returned...

3) Hedge´s line was fun, including so-from-life mistakes like "We will cover Quick!"

4) What I really hate is to wait till next book to see who survived. Damn. I didnt even saw Lostaras dance, grrrr! Battle with Nahruk´s was...well Eriksonishly brutal and twisted. Whole book everyove says like Malazans can beat anyone, damn, even reader thinks it and then... fast Nahruk charge and Bonehunters are reducet to half, 1/3..who knows? Nicely done, whole desperate try to stop Nahruks...but DAMN WHO SURVIVED???

5) Icarium, well, my fault, I forgot some parts from RG so I was blind till Veeds showdown. End was great, but...can anyone tell me, is he dead, alive, half from it? I´ll need reread...

6) Keneb´s death, damn it was so...useless, like an Erikson can do (I mean it positive)...everyone thinks he will take Blistigs broken command to himself and he simply dies...

7) Ruthan Gudd - OK, I have no idea who he is, except that Stormrider sword and Greymane´s shoulder plates freezing in RotCG hints... still Im curious if he is alive, he was stunned and we didnt knew his real identity, so...50/50...

8) Best moments (well, best or, most horrid, or WTF...):
Deck reading + Ublala revelaing as Knight of Life:)
Tools death and Hetan´s fall
Draconus arrival (guy has some style!)
Brys and his reawakening...if he died, Ill be pretty angry
Stormy and Gesler like SA and MS ok KChM
Whiskeyjack as Hood gates sentry
The last and first army of Jaghut

But Im confused what to expect from Crippled God (the book, not character)
- Paran holds remains of Host and didnt act for a looong time...
- Gruntle was sucked here due to "covergence", OK...so another great tiger ride?
- will be Bonehunters group capable of fight or Perish and Bolkando queen troops takes theis share of dying?
- Who will kill Kilmandaros, Draconus or Ublala?
- Damn and what about Karsa...dont tell me, everybody will take part in CG
- will Fiddler ascend?

OK, to summarise, DoD was great (but some MBoF books I like more), its "prelude to big finish" was well driven and still possesed climax, Barghast and Akrynnai line was cooly antiheroic...Ublala as a Draconus mate is awesome

[Fist Gamet]

My own feeling is that very, very few of the BB will actually survive into the final book. I suspect they were being pursued until Stormy and Gesler's Dinosaur army arrived to divert the Nah'ruk. I believe SE has history of driving groups / armies etc into and through the proverbial fire to whittle away the outside and leave just a small, diamond-hard core. This, I think, is what he has done with the BB, who will link up with the Perish and Bolkando (maybe KCCM?).

I still refuse to believe QB is dead. Why the hell would you have someone so important, introduced to us in book one, survive until book nine? There have been many poignant deaths, yes, and QB's can surely only be accepted if it made the difference to allow some BB's to survive. Anyhoo, I am sure they did because someone mentioned at the end (Gesler?) that there were signs of survivors fleeing.

And what oh what, will Draconus do?!?!?

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

I thought Quick Ben was a Bridgeburner anyway... Who have ascended... So technically even if he did die wouldn't that make him a new Guardian of the Dead or whatever they are? *hasnt read book, weeps*

[beru]

i feel for you, but its your own fault my brother spoild me the defeat of the BH wich made me angry!!

[Illuyankas]

Don't read the new book forum if you haven't read the new book yet. It is totally your own fault. Also Fist Gamet means the Bonehunters, not the Bridgeburners, he's just suffering a slight acronym malfunction.

[Hellian's Keg Lid]

Eh, I love spoilers, I wasn't complaining

And that would make... more sense, thanks.

[chaosek]

Damn, rarely have I felt so cheated at the end of a book as with DoD. The main protagonist, the bonehunter army, slaughtered and utterly destroyed. Gesel and Stormy said as much when the KCCM assassin scouts ahead. Scores of bones and armor from the BH and the Letteri forces.

They didn’t even make it to their goal, but this seems to be part of SE’s main motives. How noble you are or how righteous your cause, faith will screw it up. The army of the Nahruk wasn’t after the bonehunters, as said by Sinter, but Travore went head to head with them anyway.

This brings me to a rather hard conclusion. The betrayal that was announced in the book, isn’t by the Perish or other forces, it’s by Travore. She knew (how don’t ask me) that the BH would be obliterated. This is why she does care about the mood her soldiers are in or the lake of command by Blistig. Just before the slaughter she says to Keneb that the matter of Blistigs command will be dealt with shortly and the Nahruk made sure of that. I’m of the pessimistic kind and I think most of the BH will be dead. The Nahruk, prior to engaging the KCCM are literally parked on the remains of the BH/Letteri, meaning a lot will not have gotten out. Lostara goes in to a shadow dance, but is up against six Nahruk and also mentions she probably won’t survive. Bottle is buried under lots of bodies but the Nahruk, as do the KCCM, would probably seen his body heat. The remaining marines join the heavies in their last stand. Ergo, all are dead and eaten (as is said by Gesler).

It however makes no sense to bring the BH to the wastelands, just to have them being slaughtered there, so there has to be a reason why this has happened. This is where the original BB come in. Hood’s gate is closed. Meaning no one is allowed into the death realm. Aka no one really dies. This idea is fortified by the fact that Whiskeyjack (worst name in the series, so American) is the one guarding the gate. The bonehunters probably had to die to come back stronger and meaner. Like the army of the dead fighting chaos inside Dragnipur. Cause let’s face it no human army would be able to fight off an entire warren full of Forkul Assail.

All slaughtered armies, the BB, the BH, the Barghast and maybe even the chain of dogs (although I believe they were at the fight in Dragnipur) and not forgetting the army Paran has, have been set up for one big final battle. Not as frail humans, but as hardened undead or something like that. The final book will have clashes that will dwarf the previous ones. The Edur are gone, the Andii are mostly gone, but their old enemies (FA, Liosan) have remained. The shake need reinforcements if they are to defend Karhankas (or how is it spelled) and the FA need to be fought. Travore threw away the life of the BH, to get an even bigger and meaner army at her disposal.

Some thoughts on other things:

- Travore is in the dragons deck. Fid says that ‘she’ is an unaligned card, chain. And why is she so damn powerful (just after the reading)

- Icarum isn’t dead, but is inside the finest (eye of Errastas) like Reast was in the first book.

- QB could be dead, but that doesn’t matter. Him being a bridgeburner he’s probably ascended (like Mallet was). Same could go for Fiddler.

- The empty throne. Who’s throne is it? Shadow? Or could the CG be the one belonging on that throne?

- Onos Toolan is an idiot. He sacrificed his life for his rivals, only to come back and kill them anyway

Well that’s my (first) two cents for now. Damn, I hated the ending, but that actually is a good thing, although SE is getting predictable in unpredictability.

[Abyss]

WHAT COMES NEXT????


So i finished the DoD finale reread this weekend, will resume in progress reread that stopped mid RG shortly, anyways, some further thoughts going fwd...

We have the Perish/Bolkado Evertine Guard/Gilk army of about ten thousand total all of whom are still alive as of the end of DoD. Tanakalian is a bit of a wild card in terms of how his heavily hinted at betrayal is likely to play out. I'm thinking Krughava dies, Tana' takes over and leads the Perish into something spectacularly stupid, but i suppose we'll see how that plays out. The Bolkado Queen and Spax seem to have their head's on, at least.

Six thousand Khundryl are pretty much gone. We might get a couple of survivors but for all intents and purposes that force is done for. Think about this in the borad sense and it makes sense for plot. If the goodguys are ultimately going up against a force of Assail, taking the mounted force out of the game means more glorious infantry v infantry action. Or not, see below.

An unknown number of Bonehunters died. They stared with nine thousand and lost at least half of that. We can safely assume a viciously hard core of troops survived, including at least some of our faves. At a guess, most if not all of Fid's squad - we saw Cuttle, Tarr, Koryk, Smiles, Corabb and Fid all alive at the end. Not sure about Shortnose. it was looking bad for Bottle, but Nep Furrow's prediction back in RG that Bottle is detsined to betray them all has yet to come true, so i'm thinking we'll see a truly mindfucked Bottle in TCG. Hedge's Bridgeburners (STILL giggle every time i type that), Lostara, Faradan Sort, likely to survive. The supply train made it out so Pores is probably still around. Kindly is too mean to let a little thing like forty thousand Nah'ruk stop him. Masan Gilani, subject to whatever the Unbound get up to. Kisswhere will probably be found by the Perish. And Quick Ben isn't dead. nuh uh. No way. Not until we are shown the body which has been fried, eaten, digeted and shat out by twenty or more individual Nahruk spread out over several football field with written confirmation that all twelve souls have passed through Death's Gate do i believe he's dead.

Similarly an unknown number of the Letherii escort doed. They started with two thousand and lost at least half. brys and probably the Atri-Ceda will survive. As an aside, i can't be the only one who would have liked to read Brys taking on Nah'ruk while Arancict got her mojho on and fried a few. With QB (temporarily) gone, i expect some neat stuff from her in TCG.

GESLER AND STORMY'S PURE WIN ARMY OF LIZARD ASS KICKING AWESOMENISOUSITY started out with fifteen thousand Vegath and an unknown number of K'ell, let's say five thousand. They lost about half of that. Sag Churok, brenigan and Gunth Mach all lived and Gunth Mach told us Gu'rull survived.

Which leaves, importantly, about ten thousand Che'malle, and maybe five thousand Bonehunters. I'm picturing five thousand Bonehunters riding Che'malle into battle against a hoard of Assail. Even if it doesn't happen, in my head it's cool as all hell.



Gruntle, Mappo, Faint, the two Bole Bros and Precious, Setoc, Tool's three kids, Torrent, Telorast and Curdle and Baaljag are all nearbye. They were within sight of the battle so expect to see them link up with some survivors. (Btw, i can't be the only one who got a kick out of seeing Baaljag again. Mind you, she wasn't undead last time we saw her, but i suppose once Fanderay's soul left her the body gave up the ghost, pun intended.)

Draconus and Ublala and that female Bhargast whose name i forget are also in the neighborhood. It was hinted that Drac was looking to ally with QB before everything went to hell at the end.

In the vicinity but uncertain are Silchas and Rud, Toc, Olar and Tool's Imass Army of Child Killing.

We do not, of course, know what's up with Paran's Host, but they, or what's left of them, are likely to come into play.

Sech and Kila were off to free the Otataral Dragon. We know this is going to be a factor in the big finish. Kalyth's vision of Heboric suggests he'll be involved somehow.

Icarium's missing. Badalle, Rutt and Held and the rest of the Snake are in his city. I suspect we'll see this again. I'll go one further and suspect that based on a comment from Kalyth about worshipping sacrifice, the Snake will end up living with the Che'malle, possibly in Icarias.

The Shake, Sandalath and Withal are in Kharkanas with Mommy D newly arrived. of all the plotlines I have the most trouble seeing how this will link in, but i trust SE.

Kalyth, Tavore and Fid all have links to the undead Guardian/Bridgeburners, so expect to see them again

Hood and his surviving jaght may or may not play a part. I actually wonder if that plot line will be left aside in TCG.

Krul, not seen since MoI. VERY curious what he's up to.

ST and Cotillion's master plan is yet to be revealed, plus the question of whether Tavore will cooperate or turn it.

I suspect we're done with Seren, Tehol and the rest of the Leth crew. Altho given the Elder God element, Bugg/Mael will likely re-appear.


- Abyss, ...can't believe we have to wait another year...

[Ulrik]

I agree that all BH arent dead, Nahruks just wanted to shave path to KCHM and forces that retreated wasnt pursuited long (otherwise clash with Perish would occur). Also, not seeing death of so much "main" heroes is not SE style...and its even not possible:)

Erm, I do not have book here, Skulldeath "survived"?



And Ruthan Gudd, well, even if he sacrificed himself, twenty seconds to reorganizing of army is hell of a time. You can dig few feets, form a line of heavies, prepare crossbows... twenty seconds is gift from heavens (stormwall:))

[Abyss]

Disagree with you on a couple of points...

chaosek, on 14 September 2009 - 01:11 PM, said:

Damn, rarely have I felt so cheated at the end of a book as with DoD. The main protagonist, the bonehunter army, slaughtered and utterly destroyed. Gesel and Stormy said as much when the KCCM assassin scouts ahead. Scores of bones and armor from the BH and the Letteri forces. ...

Actually no. They say there is evidence of survivors. Most of the referred to bones and armour are the khundryl.

Quote

They didn't even make it to their goal, but this seems to be part of SE's main motives. How noble you are or how righteous your cause, faith will screw it up. The army of the Nahruk wasn't after the bonehunters, as said by Sinter, but Travore went head to head with them anyway.

People keep raising this and overlooking that Tavore and the army had no choice. The Nahruk were not going to let them just stand aside.
One way or the other, the Nahruk were going to attack the army. The only question was whether it was against an entrenched combat ready force or a bunch of fleeing soldiers. It wasn't Tavore's fault that the Nahruk showed up, but by keeping the army together, she saved whatever remnant survived. Otherwise they were lunch with a scattering of survivors dying of exposure in the Wastelands.

Quote

This brings me to a rather hard conclusion. The betrayal that was announced in the book, isn't by the Perish or other forces, it's by Travore. ...

Tavore didn't know what would happen. Only that something would. She also knew that one way or the other she had to get a force to Kolanse to stop the Assail ritual, so the risk was expected and necessary. It's not very useful to save the army if the entire world goes 'splody because they never left home in the first place.

As of the end of the book, Fid's entire squad was still alive and fighting. They got out of Yghatan. have some faith. Btw, iirc Lostara was up against a dozen Nahruk, so hopefully ST and Cots are feeling generous.

Quote

It however makes no sense to bring the BH to the wastelands, just to have them being slaughtered there, so there has to be a reason why this has happened.

that's my point.

Quote

... The bonehunters probably had to die to come back stronger and meaner. Like the army of the dead fighting chaos inside Dragnipur. Cause let's face it no human army would be able to fight off an entire warren full of Forkul Assail.

that human army is going to show up in Kolanse hard as diamond with Kchain Che'malle backup. people die. It's a fact of existance in an army and we already have the Imass wandering around all undead. i seriously doubt SE is setting up for the return of the entire force as undead. we've already seen that in HoC and TtH.

Quote

- Travore is in the dragons deck. Fid says that 'she' is an unaligned card, chain. And why is she so damn powerful (just after the reading)

She's not, but she IS very influential, as in her decisions will have a huge impact.

Quote

- Icarum isn't dead, but is inside the finest (eye of Errastas) like Reast was in the first book.

raest was never in the Finnest. His power was and the Azath used that to bind him.

Quote

- Onos Toolan is an idiot. He sacrificed his life for his rivals, only to come back and kill them anyway

I think you missed the point of this storyline. He sacrificed his life for his enemies and rather than learn from his sacrifice and become better people they went worse and THAT was why he killed them. plus the whole Olar Ethil influence, being denied death, children attacked, wife crippled and raped things. But Tool was the victim of all that.

- Abyss, au contraire.

[Abyss]

Ulrik, on 14 September 2009 - 02:07 PM, said:

..., I do not have book here, Skulldeath "survived"?...

we see him jump over a wounded heavy and engage two Nahruk, but that's all we see.

The chatter about him earlier in the book suggests if anyone was going to survive it was him.


I agree with you Gudd bought they a tiny bit of valuable time.

- Abyss, timely.

[Fist Gamet]

Illuyankas, on 14 September 2009 - 12:50 PM, said:

Don't read the new book forum if you haven't read the new book yet. It is totally your own fault. Also Fist Gamet means the Bonehunters, not the Bridgeburners, he's just suffering a slight acronym malfunction.

He, he, yes I did, soz.

One last thing bugging me...why, having crossed half the world in the Perish ships, did Tavore not have a fleet put together in Letheras and just sail to Kolanse? Or at least sail closer?


Oh, and I loved Abyss's image of BH's riding the KCCM into battle...

[amphibian]

Fist Gamet, on 14 September 2009 - 02:35 PM, said:

One last thing bugging me...why, having crossed half the world in the Perish ships, did Tavore not have a fleet put together in Letheras and just sail to Kolanse? Or at least sail closer?

She needed to move quickly. The Perish ships are full of... well.. Perish, and the Letherii couldn't supply or build enough ships in time. Plus the whole "no transports"/overland trip thing ties in well with Xenophon and the Anabasis.

[Dravon]

So, I haven't seen anyone else post this but I got the very distinct impression Masan Gilani went out to find Tool and his t'lan imass. But she was intercepted by the unbound. She kept saying "I thought there would be more" and I they made a point of saying she was only a couple miles away from where Tool and his "crew" were walking. Think of the diffrence Tool and a few thousand T'lan could have made for the BH's.

[Urizen]

Abyss, on 14 September 2009 - 01:50 PM, said:

In the vicinity but uncertain are Silchas and Rud,

The Shake, Sandalath and Withal are in Kharkanas with Mommy D newly arrived. of all the plotlines I have the most trouble seeing how this will link in, but i trust SE.

Silchas Ruin and the Shake do have some connection and I can see Silchas going back to Kharkanas to confront MD.

The Kharkanas trilogy that SE will write, is it confirmed that it will deal with the Andi backstory? Otherwise I can see SE leaving The Shake, Sandalath and Withal hanging in TCG and then pick them up for the trilogy.

[Abyss]

Fist Gamet, on 14 September 2009 - 02:35 PM, said:

...One last thing bugging me...why, having crossed half the world in the Perish ships, did Tavore not have a fleet put together in Letheras and just sail to Kolanse? Or at least sail closer?
...

Plus the Letherii were Malazan business with the Edur. The Perish were part of the war against the CG, but strictly speaking Leth was a Malazan punitive expedition, even tho the CG was behind the whole thing and Tavore was probably aware of that.

Dravon, on 14 September 2009 - 03:48 PM, said:

So, I haven't seen anyone else post this but I got the very distinct impression Masan Gilani went out to find Tool and his t'lan imass. But she was intercepted by the unbound. She kept saying "I thought there would be more" and I they made a point of saying she was only a couple miles away from where Tool and his "crew" were walking. Think of the diffrence Tool and a few thousand T'lan could have made for the BH's.

Yes and know. Masan was sent out to find allies. Sinter sent her (hee hee) with a chunk of bone which did belong to an Imass, which is presumably how Sinter with her 'dal honese sensitivity' knew there were Imass around. As it turned out, Sinter was sensitive enough to feel that there was a large group if Imass, but not to know there were actualy TWO groups. Since her fragment was of one of the Unbound, that's who found Masan first.

Urizen, on 14 September 2009 - 05:35 PM, said:

...Silchas Ruin and the Shake do have some connection and I can see Silchas going back to Kharkanas to confront MD.
...

Silch did vow back in RG to kill the CG. I suspect we see him and Rud in TCG.

- Abyss, could say Silch bought a-vow-al.

[Ulrik]

Well, if ST and Cotillion wants to free CG (my personal theory), we could see some avesome match like Cotillion+Apsalar (and some shadowy tentacles) vs Ruin and Rudd...and probably in last moment poping Quick Ben thinking about what it better... well... enough of future reading:)