[Abyss]

It's been speculated more than once that QB or perhaps one of his souls, is an Elder God in disguise. Grizzin Farl is about the only named Elder God we have no location on, so the link is thin but it's there.

On the other hand we now have Ruthan Gudd, another shady character with a past and a knowledge base that goes way beyond that of a 'mere' mortal, especially his familiarity with Draconus and the suggestion he spent some time vacationing under an Azath. So again, we're speculating that he may be an Elder God in disguise, and again Grizzin Farl is the only name hanging loose as it were.

I suppose it bears mention that the Elder Gods aren't limitted to those we've seen or read of - Urso and Pinosel (the drunks) turned out to be Elder Gods, albeit old and weak(ish) ones, and Togg and Fanderlay have been described as being OLDER than some Elder Gods.

I suppose odds are good we're getting to a revelation that either QB or Ruthan was Grizzin Farl, but that doesn't preclude either/both from some ascendent or Elder reveal.

I lean slightly towards Gudd for Grizzin, with Qb turning out to be something/someone else alltogether... Fid's reading at the beginning of DoD lay three cards aside - one was a Queen tho i don't remember which, one was Knight of Shadow for Seren/Trull's unborn child... anyone remember what the third one was - perhaps that could link to Gudd as a Power that was in play but aside.

Releatedly, QB was designated Magus of Dark - which is all kinds of odd because he had historically been aspected to Death via his link to Hood, and in his monologue just after the reading, he's just as confused.

- Abyss, aspected to breakfast... helloooOOOOOooo bacon.

[WhiskeyJackDaniels]

Wasn't the third Master of the Deck?

[Soulessdreamer]

WhiskeyJackDaniels, on 19 January 2010 - 04:31 PM, said:

Wasn't the third Master of the Deck?

yep

TTFN

[Urizen]

Master of the Deck, Knight of Shadow and Spinner of Death were held by the table at Fid's reading.

[Abyss]

Urizen, on 20 January 2010 - 09:53 AM, said:

Master of the Deck, Knight of Shadow and Spinner of Death were held by the table at Fid's reading.

Those are them. Fid uses MoD to bluff the Errant, knight is Seren's child, and i can't see any logical link to Spinner tho that's one of those cards we don't see all that often.

So no useful info there. rats.

- Abyss, foiled again.

[champ]

"mages of dark. the bastard! you got a nasty nose, fid, haven't you just. and dont even try it with that innocent look. one more disarming shrug from you and i'll ram ten warrens down your throat.
magus of dark.
there was a throne once... no, never mind,
just stay away from sandalath, thats all..."

An after though from QB after the reading of the deck, with that line underlined points that fids sniffed QB's true self out?? can't think of any known andii etc he could be... speculating, could he have some ancient affinity with draconus? crafty butcher!

[anothevilbadguy]

champooon, on 20 January 2010 - 07:55 PM, said:

can't think of any known andii etc he could be...

I am having trouble remembering, but I think there where suggestions of maybe a link to Blind Gallan (think thats his name), who was a poet and powerful mage andii, who seems to be unaccounted for, and was mentioned quite a bit in DoD.

[Urizen]

anothevilbadguy, on 23 January 2010 - 10:09 PM, said:

champooon, on 20 January 2010 - 07:55 PM, said:

can't think of any known andii etc he could be...

I am having trouble remembering, but I think there where suggestions of maybe a link to Blind Gallan (think thats his name), who was a poet and powerful mage andii, who seems to be unaccounted for, and was mentioned quite a bit in DoD.

I don't know about that. While it's been a loong time and all, I don't see any similarities between crazed with grief Blind Gallan and QB.
QB could be inhabited by Grizzin Farl's "soul" and through it be "aspected" to drakness since we don't know what Grizzin Farl's aspect was. For all we know he was Brother of Warm nights to compliment Nightchill being Sister of Cold nights and Draconus being King of Night.

I don't see Gudd as Grizzin Farl as Gudd seems to be more of a follower, which I don't see in an Elder God. Those EG's we see all have a certain selfishness and independance that I don't see in Gudd. QB on the other hand...
I still feel Gudd originaly was a powerful Tiste Andi that followed Draconus rather than being a follower of Rake, Silchas and the other Andi lords and ladies. Perhaps he was to Draconus what Spinnock was to Rake.

[D'rek]

Abyss, on 09 September 2009 - 01:23 PM, said:

Wow, this thread, it drafts, rights tiself, tangents out to the stratosphere and then realigns...


For what its worth, when Gudd recalls escaping an Azath, he mentions something about 'flaming fists', - we're only aware of two azath being beaten to death. The Odhan House that Iccy broke and the one Osseric trashed in the RCG prologue. If Gudd was in either of those, he is oooooold.

Grizzin Farl gets thrown around every time a mystery identity arises. Could be QB, could be Gudd, hey, how many of you thought Kilamandaros was a dude up until we saw her in TB? Krul sent Keruli to Genabackis. Bugg spent the last few decades concealing who and what he is. There are no rules when it comes to Elder Gods, but there are also a lot of types of ascendents, so anything is possible. griz gets dropped in a lot because he's the only Elder God aside from Father Light, we've never seen at this point. (and no, i don't think Gudd is Father Light).

I commented elsethread that Gudd's 'noble sacrifice' seemed to come out of nowehere. he displays no particular fondness or loyalty to the Malazans before then. I'm wondering if maybe he was happy to charge into the Nah'ruk because he wouldn't die.

I agree the 'she' he was referring to was his sword in some way.

- Abyss, remains curious.

Funny you should say that because that's what my initial inclination was. I thought Ruthan's "she" would be MD, newly returned (though not sure what she's 'answering'). The whole forces in opposition thing, combined with a passage (from the Shake storyline I think) about how when MD turned away FL had to as well -> to me this painted an image of MD turning away and so FL was forced to do so as well, and he turned himself into a seemingly-mortal man and decided to go live on the shores of Jacuruku. His pseudo-friend Draconus (also his girlfriend's ex) whom he is currently on good terms with and has put behind him all that MD-Draconus history warns him it's a bad idea and sure enough he get's stuck in an Azath for a while. Eventually he gets out of the Azath and has some fun adventures with Greymane, where he picks up a cool sword and some fun tricks. Finally he winds up with the Bonehunters and is starting to get some efficacy back, since with MD's return so too comes his (but he's nowhere near what you'd expect - yet). And over the time he changed his mind about Draconus trying to get busy with MD behind his back or whatever.

That was my initial thoughts upon reading through his bits, anyways.

[Corabb Bhilan Thenu'alas]

Yeah, I really don't think Dracs would be slumming around with mortals before his encarceration by dragnipure, even he admits that he was a cruel bastard then. So Ruthen had to be an Ascendant at least and a god or elemental probably. Nightchill, Keruli, Turisal Brizad, and Bugg are all examples of Elder gods masquerading as mortals to pass the time. So Ruthen, and one of QB's souls could definately be Elder or elemental. Come on book 10...

[Votan]

Were Urso and Pinosel Elder Gods? I didn't get that impression. They were old, but I thought them saying that they were young compared to Mael was meant to demonstrate to the reader than they weren't Elder.

[Urizen]

Votan, on 25 February 2010 - 06:14 AM, said:

Were Urso and Pinosel Elder Gods? I didn't get that impression. They were old, but I thought them saying that they were young compared to Mael was meant to demonstrate to the reader than they weren't Elder.

The were Elder Gods in the sense that they have being around a loongtime and came into being as humanity starts to develop but they are young compared to Mael and they are not elemental in the sense of Mael, MD, Edgewalker etc.

[Votan]

Urizen, on 25 February 2010 - 10:10 AM, said:

The were Elder Gods in the sense that they have being around a loongtime and came into being as humanity starts to develop but they are young compared to Mael and they are not elemental in the sense of Mael, MD, Edgewalker etc.

To me, "Elder God" refers to a type of deity. It's like a class. Elder God refers to K'rul, Draconus, Mael, Kilmandaros,Grizzin Farl, etc. Urso and Pinosel are just old gods, they aren't, as you say, elemental. So I was questioning the use of "Elder God" to describe them, since I don't consider them one of the above group, and judging their words to Mael, neither do they.

This post has been edited by Votan: 25 February 2010 - 09:03 PM

[Urizen]

Votan, on 25 February 2010 - 09:01 PM, said:

Urizen, on 25 February 2010 - 10:10 AM, said:

The were Elder Gods in the sense that they have being around a loongtime and came into being as humanity starts to develop but they are young compared to Mael and they are not elemental in the sense of Mael, MD, Edgewalker etc.

To me, "Elder God" refers to a type of deity. It's like a class. Elder God refers to K'rul, Draconus, Mael, Kilmandaros,Grizzin Farl, etc. Urso and Pinosel are just old gods, they aren't, as you say, elemental. So I was questioning the use of "Elder God" to describe them, since I don't consider them one of the above group, and judging their words to Mael, neither do they.

Maybe they are among the Elder new gods?

[Sinisdar Toste]

they are considered elder in the sense that they were around in elder times. small e elder here, like those elders who may be considered elemental forces are capital E Elder. the Errant represents a challenge to this neat interpretation of the system and i think its safe to say that things aren't so simple. basically when the words Elder god are used, you have to note the context, among many other things, to work out what they're talking about.

This post has been edited by Sinisdar Toste: 25 February 2010 - 09:21 PM

[Tarcanus]

Abyss, on 20 January 2010 - 03:29 PM, said:

Urizen, on 20 January 2010 - 09:53 AM, said:

Master of the Deck, Knight of Shadow and Spinner of Death were held by the table at Fid's reading.

Those are them. Fid uses MoD to bluff the Errant, knight is Seren's child, and i can't see any logical link to Spinner tho that's one of those cards we don't see all that often.

So no useful info there. rats.

- Abyss, foiled again.

Because I seem to have found a fondness for proposing Ardata is involved somehow, and the fact that I can't think of another 'thing' that could spin something as well as a spider, I'm going to propose that Spinner of Death is Ardata.


Or Hellian, via Ardata.

Crazy theories are awesome.

[Votan]

Urizen, on 25 February 2010 - 09:17 PM, said:

Maybe they are among the Elder new gods?

Pretty much how I see it, yeah. They are "regular" gods, but among the oldest of such gods.

[Wol]

Does QB or one of his souls have anything to do with the First Empire?
possibly the last Ceda or whatever they called the High mage from
when the place went up, its hinted hes soultaken (a snake i heard some ware?)
so maby thats it but i doubt hes Elder himself he has a sister remember

[Silk]

Qb has a sister as mentioned, however no timeline was put into place for when he was a kid (that I remember).

I know timeline isn't important, but it is in this case.... whose to say that there isn't some gene that allows for him to live long and prosper (he could be related to the Weaver and the Fisherman etc etc)

[Salt-Man Z]

MTS, on 11 September 2009 - 03:04 PM, said:

Quote

'...the red- and gold-haired folk you see and think of as Falari are in fact invaders from the eastern ocean, from the other side of Seeker's Deep, or some unknown islands well away from the charted courses of that ocean. They themselves do not even recall their homelands, and most of them believe that they have always lived in Falar.

This answers a question I had while reading: Namely the fact that "When the colonists from the First Empire set forth, they made sacrifice to the salty seas in the name of Jhistal" confused me--because according to an earlier book, "Jhistal" is a Falari cult. Of course, if the current inhabitants of Falar came "across the eastern ocean" from the First Empire, it all makes sense.