[Traveller]

Well I've pretty much decided not to bother. I came out from seeing the previous two with a feeling of disappointment at what could have been.

I think I know exactly what I'll get with the 3rd - there will be a few scenes that will look great on the big screen, and resemble, for a few brief moments, something from a book I've always loved. Then there will be a load of unnecessary bollocks that PJ thinks is the best thing ever, but that no one has been brave enough to stop him from going through with.

I've always been of the opinion that I'll go and see a movie to make up my own mind, but not this time. I did that with the last two.

I'm cross and I haven't even seen it.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 30 December 2014 - 07:52 PM

[QuickTidal]

Traveller, on 30 December 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

Well I've pretty much decided not to bother. I came out from seeing the previous two with a feeling of disappointment at what could have been.

I think I know exactly what I'll get with the 3rd - there will be a few scenes that will look great on the big screen, and resemble, for a few brief moments, something from a book I've always loved. Then there will be a load of unnecessary bollocks that PJ thinks is the best thing ever, but that no one has been brave enough to stop him from going through with.

I'm cross and I haven't even seen it.

While I understand your ire, I seriously doubt that all those involved have much issue with how he chose to tell his story. Especially, for example, Tolkien die hards like Christopher Lee. But I mean we are talking about a cast of hundreds and a huge crew who toiled for years on this and I'd expect are proud of it. I quite doubt that they are all just "not brave enough to tell PJ no". It may be that they enjoyed the way he decided to adapt it?

But yes, if you didn't care for the first two, you'll almost certainly not care for the 3rd as it is more of the same and should save your cash....possibly netflix it down the road?

[Traveller]

Oh I'm sure everyone involved was all for it, I was just remembering something from the making of tLotRs films... where someone approached him with drawings of Gothmog, and he told them to go back and make him uglier, more disgusting. Then when they returned, he said, no, make it even worse! Until it eventually became the weird mutant orc that made it to screen. (He did the same with Shelob, and the Witch King's mace size iirc).

It kind of sums up PJs approach to me - add more, add more, add more.... until the original is mutated, lost and unrecognisable. The people providing the concepts obviously want to provide for his vision, but I guess I wish someone could have been more pushy in convincing him to take a more subtle, deft approach to these films.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 30 December 2014 - 09:59 PM

[Macros]

Distances have always been (imo) the Achilles heel of these films, jumping from place to place seems so easy for some characters yet the same journey is an epic slog for others.
And its usually for some superfluous shit that PJ has decided to stick in that further irritates me.

Still haven't seen it, going to see it this weekend, not really looking forward to it, especially after reading this thread, but want to finish out the trilogy on the big screen.

I just feel that Jackson had such an opportunity with the Tolkien works, something no-one will ever get again given the phenom LotR turned unto, and he made things look fantastic, then pointlessly butchered parts of the story for the sake of more elves, cause elves are cool bro.

[Macros]

Oh Peter Jackson I salute thee.
Oh Peter Jackson, you sir are a diabolical genius, your evil knows no bounds, no limits to your sick and twisted pleasures.

The Battle of the Five armies, henceforth known as Peter Jackson's waterboarding, PJW for short.

PJW had such promise, and thereis where the filthy bastard starts, he sucks you in, tricks you into believing he has pulled the irons out of the fire just in time to save the shambling monstrosity that has been the Hobbit trilogy. Smaug destroys Laketown, devastates it in biblical fashion, literally burns that mother fucker down, the sillyness with Bards son isn't even that distracting from Smaug's awesome wrath.
The Master gets the ending he deserves, and the only bad thing to come from that sequence is the sniveling superfluous little shit, who's name I have already expunged from my memory, the Masters assistant. Better Peter had let him drown than extend this bloated carcass of a movie further.
The good stops, the good stops more abruptly than a sailor in front of whorehouse, after Smaug crashes in fiery glory into laketown.
And for the next 2 hours, you realise you have been betrayed, for PJ has taken your childhood, ripped out the pages and them to wipe his ass, on both sides. We can only be thank full that his ass was clean by the time he got to the final chapter of the book. Its not unlike meeting a really fit bird on Khosan road, be thrilled that she's chatting you up and wants to dance, then, just as you start to dance close, you feel the bulge of a massive dick under their skirt.
The battle of the five armies, better titled as the Most pointlessly protracted five duels in history, or better yet, the most moronic five battle maneuvers.
Oh where to start? PJ had a gift, a gift of a battle to portray, had he stuck remotely to the book, infact, make a few changes, to make it more epic. I'm torn between listing what was so fucking stupid about this battle or how fucking fantastic it could have been. This wasn't an interpretation of the Hobbit, this was cold blooded hobbicide.
You have a unit of the finest archers in the land, these chaps could knock the fleas off a sparrows bollocks at 100 paces, you have an incredibly sturdy looking shield wall, you do not launch warriors over the wall and completely denude its existence, you let the shieldwall hold, then your archers rain down a murderous fire on the enemy, THEN you release your ninja warriors.
If you headbutt a helmed warrior with nothing on your head at the very least you will be bleeding like a cut pig, not to mention seeing cartoon stars and tweety birds around your head, do it five times in a row and, well....
And most importantly.
if several hundred unarmored fishermen and peasants go toe to toe with several hundred fully armored warriors who are LITERALLY BRED TO WAGE WAR it will be over in the time it takes for me to have a shit, and that's being very generous to the good folk of Laketown, I like to read a few pages of a book when I rest on the porcelain throne.

Imagine how it could have been, Dains folk arriving, hell, we'll let Billy Connolly on a pig stay to keep PJs animal fetish satisfied, about to throw down with the Elves, and boom, Gandalf stops them in time, they set up properly, the dwarves ready to hold, the elves on the spurs of the mountain, their spearmen, ready to flood down the slopes, a screaming wave of death falling on the orcs flanks, the Archers on the crest dealing death out with every shaft.
The battle rages and becomes close, and word of more of Bolgs forces comes through, the elves are exposed, and all looks lost.
Then Thorin and Co LTD bust out of Erebor and crash into the battle, gathering warriors to them as they cleave through the orcs ranks, aiming like a spear for the elite, Bolg and his bodyguard, and in doing so, their force becomes isolated, forced into a circle whilst Thorin seeks to break through.
Thorin is struck down, but not killed, Fili and Kili take position over him and just as they are brutally cut down, Beorn arrives.
Beorn arrives like a Tornado, a tornado with teeth and claws, he tears Bolg down and comes to Thorin, the orcs are shaken by bolgs death and are startign to back off. Put the silly love tirangle death scene in there now, Beorn bears (hehe) Throin to the rear, where the one of the few truly excellent scenes PJ produced can still be used, Thorins death, with Bilbo seeing the eagles, Beorn returns to the battle in a fury and the eagles tear the goblins down from the heights.

Fuck just imagining the battle like that makes me mad, especially because he got the start and end of this film so perfectly right, PJ should be castrated for what he did with the 2 hours sandwiched in between.

Thorin's death, not the stupidly overdrawn duel with the pale orc, his actual kicking of the bucket.
That was simply the best scene PJ has shot in middle earth, its superb, and even though I was thoroughly pissed off and bored with the film by that stage, for those two minutes I didn't care, they both played it perfectly, and I choked up like a little girl and don't care who knows it. PJ got the casting spot on again for these films, he got the locations ace as usual, but he just can't resist throwing shit at a masterpiece, hes the guy who buys a porche 911, then puts a douche spoiler on the back, and big plastery logo stickers all over the sides, he's a maniac, he needed an editor by his side at all times to tell him to wise up, like Jordan needed a new delete key on his typewriter.

FUCK
I'm annoyed.
the ending, was perfect, which highlights PJs twisted mind further, he's shown us glimpses of what he can deliver, then says FUCK YOU and shoves cartoon in your face.
He's likely sitting on his pile of gold right now wearing a monocle, twirling his mustache and laughing maniacally.
Peter Jackson sir, I salute, I am in awe of your lack of class.

[Macros]

Positives -
Armitage portraying Thorins madness, excellent work
Bilbo Baggins, perfect casting, and the chemistry those two had in some scenes was a treat to watch.
Like finding a coco pop in the bowl of mouse shit

[Coco with marshmallows]

Soooo.... not a fan of the film all in all?

(Though I must say i largely agree with you on all points)

[QuickTidal]

I think everyone hated this but me. Lol! I've become Apt!

[worry]

Nah I liked it. I could not care less if it was "true" to the book. But then again I was perfectly fine (and even happy) that Tauriel was created, so maybe I'm the weirdo. Makes perfect sense to me to flesh out the elves, who are basically cranky Keeblers in the book.

[Grief]

worry, on 31 December 2014 - 11:31 PM, said:

Nah I liked it. I could not care less if it was "true" to the book. But then again I was perfectly fine (and even happy) that Tauriel was created, so maybe I'm the weirdo. Makes perfect sense to me to flesh out the elves, who are basically cranky Keeblers in the book.

I think it stands up poorly as a film regardless of the book. Though it's hard to separate the two.

I never felt he handled the elves well. He made them strereotypical, maudlin, brooding doomed badasses. In the books they are rather festive, which doesn't come across at all in any of his films.

[Traveller]

Yes, apart from the eldest, which retain the sort of gravitas you'd expect from something that old, the elves have a more carefree, fuck-you attitude in the books.. as a result of being long lived, they've learned the value of fun, music etc, and try not to take the heavy stuff too seriously.

They sing, dance, and make fun of the dwarves, not through old enmity, but because they think their beards are funny.

Jacksons elves are like a load of highborn aristocrats with no sense of humour, who look down on everything and everyone. The first scene at Rivendell, in the book, is more like a sort of hippy commune, with folky music and story telling; whereas the movie has the dwarves looking like a bunch of grubby peasants walking mud into a stately home, getting disapproving stares while harps are playing in the background, rather than the jolly welcome they get in the book.

The dwarves actually look down on the elves precisely because they don't take anything seriously, and think them foolish - I don't know why Jackson decided to reverse it, or change them so much.

They're more like Tiste Andii in the movies, come to think about it.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 01 January 2015 - 09:15 AM

[Andorion]

Quote

They're more like Tiste Andii in the movies, come to think about it.

Jackson is a closet Malazan fan?

[polishgenius]

Traveller, on 01 January 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

The dwarves actually look down on the elves precisely because they don't take anything seriously, and think them foolish - I don't know why Jackson decided to reverse it, or change them so much.

It's probably a combination of the fact that in our current culture, Tolkien's jolly elves would be more difficult to take seriously as a wise elder race (similar to how Tom Bombadil just doesn't work for a modern audience, though not as extreme), and that many of Tolkien's later imitators also went this route - in fact probably most to one degree or another- and those shaped popculture perception of what an elf is as much as Tolkien himself.

[champ]

QuickTidal, on 31 December 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

I think everyone hated this but me. Lol! I've become Apt!

I enjoyed it too, just took it for what it was, an easy watch, action packed conclusion that didn't take much thought.

I learnt after the second film that I wasn't going to get what I hoped for - a true adaption sticking to the story - so I just rolled with it...

Part of me wishes it was other and I totally agree with some of the peoples gripes about the series but they weren't significant enough to detract me from my enjoyment!

[Dolmen 2.0]

champ, on 02 January 2015 - 09:33 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 31 December 2014 - 11:08 PM, said:

I think everyone hated this but me. Lol! I've become Apt!

I enjoyed it too, just took it for what it was, an easy watch, action packed conclusion that didn't take much thought.

I learnt after the second film that I wasn't going to get what I hoped for - a true adaption sticking to the story - so I just rolled with it...

Part of me wishes it was other and I totally agree with some of the peoples gripes about the series but they weren't significant enough to detract me from my enjoyment!

I took it at face value aswell. It was enjoyable popcorn. I did cringe at a few scenes but I still appreciated the spectacle of the thing.

[Silencer]

I think it's easy to do that, but is it really what you feel/think about the movie?

I know I enjoyed it on that level, but I definitely also think it's not a good adaptation of the source materials, and that even independent of that it has massive plot holes and orchestration issues. I'm really not capable of just turning my problems with the film off simply because it was a decent spectacle if you don't think about it at all...

[Gorefest]

Yeah, but how much source material is there, really, considering they didn't have the rights to the Silmarillion? The main issue is that they chose to do 3 films instead of 2. All the rest is flow-out from that. As far as I can tell, in the core they stick to the events as they are described in The Hobbit and the time line appendix to LOTR, a lot of the other fleshing out stuff is to fill up the time. Once you get over the hurdle that they should have just done a two-movie adaption instead of a three-movie adaption, the trilogy is actually quite accepatble and enjoyable in my view. Apart from the ludicrous elf-fancies-dwarf love triangle cringe, of course.

[tiam]

As an adaptation it was awful.

As a CGI film aimed at kids and designed to be a LOTR prequel trilogy (like Starwars ep1-3) with nods and winks for fans of the original it succeeded.

I didnt enjoy it, not even the battle scenes. I think it was the cgi where they get the actors to move a small knife slightly and then CGI an orc being flung. All the one against a hundred battles didnt have the impact of Aragorn defending Frodo in Fellowship just before Boromir died. You actually felt like the characters were in danger.

Billy Connely cameo was enjoyable though.

[Traveller]

I went to see it yesterday.

And I actually enjoyed it more than the others, possibly as I was expecting a poor adaptation so I wasn't disappointed.

And lets face it, it's a poor adaptation. If they had cut all the superfluous crap with Smaug at the end of the last one, they could have easily finished with the dragon falling on Laketown, and Bilbo looking at the flaming mess and asking ' what have we done?' Which would have made a better end imo, and made a better start to the third.

Also... that guy Alfred. I mean, just.. why. Stephen Fry as the master totally blew as well, I hate seeing such familiar faces playing themselves appearing in big movies.

The ousting of Sauron scene was totally underwhelming, why did Galadriel change into her 'tempted by the Ring' dark form? Instead of hitting him with a blaze of white light?

The later battle stuff looked good, it just made no goddamn sense at all for the numerous reasons mentioned above.
(Kind of reminiscent of RotKs cavalry charge into archers hiding behind stone walls.)

I mean, why batter down walls of a ruined city? And why bother anyway when giant battle orcs in heavy plate are overwhelmed by a load of grubby unarmed refugees? Whaat? One even fell over when a stone bounced on its helm ffs.

It was all kinds of silly, but for some reason I quite enjoyed it. Maybe because it was pretty much what I expected... a few moments of LotRs goodness padded out with nice looking nonsense.

And Billy Connolly. That reveal didn't break the moment, oh no.

I think the best bits were undoubtably those with Thorin and Bilbo. Poor old Gandalf hardly had a thing to do, not a spell in sight.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 02 January 2015 - 01:30 PM

[Gorefest]

Traveller, on 02 January 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

Also... that guy Alfred. I mean, just.. why.

I suspect that they might have worked it in as a bit of back story to Grima Wormtongue, as the actor has a vague younger-looking resemblance to Brad Dourif. Otherwise, beats me.