[HoosierDaddy]

I think RLY is past the withdrawal phase at this point. But... funny! Lol.

[Mr.James]

yeah I kinda figured that out...

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I quit smoking cigs for three years once. Doesn't make them non-addictive. Please, show me a link or any sort of evidence that filtering nicotine through water makes it non-addictive. Your "I can quit any time I want to" argument is classic addict behavior, as is the idea that "I took a break and it wasn't bad, so I went ahead and started again." My addiction is telling me the same thing right now, that it's easy at this point so I might as well smoke. Classic addict behavior.

Look, you might not be getting as much nicotine through a hookah, making it LESS addictive, but nicotine is ALWAYS addictive and if you're getting any nicotine through a hookah, it can be addictive. The other thing you're not thinking about is that when dealing with addicts, ANY amount of what they're addicted to can get them back on it. One beer won't addict someone to alcohol, but one beer is enough to get an alcoholic who quit to start drinking again.

I realize I'm being overly grumpy about this, but I'm not going to apologize because A: you're ignoring scientific fact for anecdotal evidence and B: you coming into this thread and telling me to smoke a hookah would be like going to an Alcoholics meeting and telling those people that they should just drink wine coolers, because those aren't addictive, or telling a recovered crack addict they should try just snorting coke because it's not addictive.

And how are you NOT a smoker? You smoke. Therefore, you are a smoker. Ok, so it's not cigs, but a hookah smoker is still a smoker too, just like a pipe smoker, or cigar smoker. If you ignite tobacco and pull the smoke into your mouth and/or lungs, you are by definition smoking, which means you are a smoker.

[caladanbrood]

Mmmmm, wine

[cerveza_fiesta]

stupid brain is probably going to try to convince me to smoke tonight at the ACDC concert.

@RLY,

I agree with you on this one. The hookah smoke is for sure addictive in some way and water filtration, while providing a cooling effect on the tabac smoke, does not filter all the nicotine out.

What you've been saying about "if you smoke, you are a smoker", while kind of annoying to read over and over in your posts, is proving helpful. If I want to be a non-smoker, it helps to have a black and white rigid way of thinking about the issue. Everybody was smoking last night and I even had a few drinks (so the willpower was miniscule). I actually recalled your posts and it helped me turn the "one won't hurt" addiction-fueled attitude into a "one will hurt" attitude.

None of this namby pamby "well I'm a non-smoker but I have one once in awhile" for me. I am a non-smoker now. Going to do my best to keep it that way.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

cerveza_fiesta, on Aug 6 2009, 04:32 AM, said:

tine out.

What you've been saying about "if you smoke, you are a smoker", while kind of annoying to read over and over in your posts, is proving helpful. If I want to be a non-smoker, it helps to have a black and white rigid way of thinking about the issue. it helped me turn the "one won't hurt" addiction-fueled attitude into a "one will hurt" attitude.

None of this namby pamby "well I'm a non-smoker but I have one once in awhile" for me. I am a non-smoker now. Going to do my best to keep it that way.

You are literally the third person today to tell me this. Sorry to be a pain in the ass about it, but the repetition seems to help drill it in. It's so simple that people tend to blow it off the first few times they hear it. Glad it helps, try to keep it in mind as a mantra when the bad cravings hit. Good work not breaking down while drinking. THe fact that i don't drink has helped me a lot I think.

RLY, spreading the word about not smoking

[caladanbrood]

Good job c_f

[cerveza_fiesta]

yeah, its cool.

Plus, the way its phrased, you're really only dishing it out to people that want to stop smoking anyway.

Somebody who doesn't care if they smoke a bit would just think "ok then, I guess I'm a smoker" and then continue to have their occasional cigs with no significant annoyance.

Somebody who really does care on some level (me) thinks "ok then, I guess I'm a smoker......aww fuck, I don't really want to be that", and maybe think twice when having the occasional cig.

EDIT

It works on a psychological level instead of the attack ads presented by the anti-smoking lobby groups. The vast majority of anti-smoking propaganda makes me want to smoke just to spite it.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 06 August 2009 - 12:06 PM

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Yeah, back when I was a smoker (feels good to be able to say that, even though it has only been 3.5 weeks) I would light up when I saw one of those commercials just out off spite. I really showed them.

[caladanbrood]

Yeah, I can see how that would have taught them a lesson. The fools!

[cerveza_fiesta]

seriously though. For all the money and effort that's been put into anti-smoking legislation and anti-smoking advertisements, and all the propaganda I've been subjected too from childhood until now, not a single piece of their work has truly made me back up and say "woah, that makes me want to stop smoking".

In fact, they are getting so petty with the anti-smoking thing it kinda pisses me off. Everybody gets the point now. They have giant warnings on cigarette packages, you can't smoke indoors in a public place anywhere in Canada anymore, you can't smoke within 10meters of any public building in my city, some restaurant patios are making it policy for no smoking on the patio....its just getting ridiculous. Just the other day they were trying to pass some legislation that would make it illegal to smoke in a house where non-smokers live, whether they care or not.

I dunno, I know its "for the greater good" but it just seems they're making up rules for the sake of making rules now. I wish they would have just stopped at no smoking in public buildings. Its a reasonable request that way. No smoking in public places....got it....I (and most people) can totally see the logic. No smoking within 10 meters of public buildings though? That just starts looking like uppity non-smokers trying to force their will on the folks that choose to light up cause smoking smells bad.

Last time I got off them completely for 1 year plus it all came from me wanting it. No amount of advertising or legislation ever made me want to stop before then.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 06 August 2009 - 02:18 PM

[caladanbrood]

We have no smoking in any "place of work", so pretty much anywhere. But since that's all it is, when before you could mostly avoid smoke, now every single time you go into or out of a pub or bar or club you have to battle through a cloud of smoke from all the people leaning on the door. Dunno about 10 meters but some distance is certainly good reasoning.

[cerveza_fiesta]

caladanbrood, on Aug 6 2009, 10:19 AM, said:

We have no smoking in any "place of work", so pretty much anywhere. But since that's all it is, when before you could mostly avoid smoke, now every single time you go into or out of a pub or bar or club you have to battle through a cloud of smoke from all the people leaning on the door. Dunno about 10 meters but some distance is certainly good reasoning.

I guess my point is that it doesn't hurt you in any way whatsoever to go through a crowd of smokers outside. Its a mild incovenience and it smells bad but in the end the smokers are not really harming you in any way outside where any smoke they are generating is instantly diffused and carried away. Why should they have to stand at the end of the block just to have a cigarette when it doesn't harm anybody but themselves?

Its like having to go through the crowd of fat, dirty hillbillies in front of McDonalds when I want a big mac. They are fat and dirty and kind of gross me out, but really they aren't hurting me in any way with their lifestyle choice, so I can't do anything about it. I don't get to tell them to eat outside because they gross me out.

It just seems that the anti smoking thing has such momentum and political power now that they can pass any law they want, no matter how ridiculous. The way people talk about smokers its like they're all baby murderers or something now.

[Slum]

I for one welcome our anti-smoking legislation overlords.

[cerveza_fiesta]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF
FFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
UUUU

[Binder of Demons]

I know the various adverts and warnings have little effect unless the person really wants to quit anyway. But I'm really glad they introduced the legislation for the workplace.

I used to work in a cancer research centre, and they brought in the no-smoking in the workplace rule during my time there, which meant that the old "smokers room" in the hospital had to go. So of course both our unit, and the accident and emergency unit wanted that extra room, despite it being quite small and dark. Well they brought in some industrial cleaners and we all discovered that there was in fact a skylight in the room that no-one had noticed since it was so covered in tar from years of smoke. it really was amazing. People had assumed it was black perspex for years. Absolutely disgusting.

I have always been a non-smoker, but seeing that room made me really glad of that fact.

Well done guys on breaking the habit. I really hope ye keep it up.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

CF, you've got to start thinking like a self-righteous ex-smoker. It's time to turn on your smoking brethren, and welcome the anti-smoking legislation. For one thing, it's going to help you quit. For the other thing, screw those dirty smokers.

I've read reports that the amount of secondhand smoke affects someone just walking past outside enough to show up in immediate tests of blood pressure and whatnot. Can't remember where that was, can't link it sorry.

The antismoking legislation isn't going to lighten up any time soon. In fact, it's going to keep getting worse, and at the same time smokes are going to be tazed more and more. They're going to eventually legislate smoking out of existence.

[HoosierDaddy]

I miss smoking, but I don't miss the hack I had developed. Blech.

Also, one or two cigarettes is a terrific smell to me. Crowded bar with lots of smokers? Gross. My throat hurts after being there.

[Mezla PigDog]

cerveza_fiesta, on Aug 6 2009, 03:29 PM, said:

I guess my point is that it doesn't hurt you in any way whatsoever to go through a crowd of smokers outside.

It does. I have never smoked anything and I can feel it in my throat and chest when I walk by smokers or stand next to one. It is really bad, especially if I have a cold or anything as it makes me cough. It is like getting a lung full of someone who has just sprayed deoderant or standing next to someone wearing too much perfume.

[cerveza_fiesta]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Aug 6 2009, 04:55 PM, said:

CF, you've got to start thinking like a self-righteous ex-smoker. It's time to turn on your smoking brethren, and welcome the anti-smoking legislation. For one thing, it's going to help you quit. For the other thing, screw those dirty smokers.

I've read reports that the amount of secondhand smoke affects someone just walking past outside enough to show up in immediate tests of blood pressure and whatnot. Can't remember where that was, can't link it sorry.

The antismoking legislation isn't going to lighten up any time soon. In fact, it's going to keep getting worse, and at the same time smokes are going to be tazed more and more. They're going to eventually legislate smoking out of existence.

I know its all for the best in the end, but if they're going to ban the damn things I just wish they'd get it over with. I don't really care if they do...its the pettiness of the rules that gets to me. The politicians just know its politically unfeasible (infeasible?) to cut them entirely so they keep coming out with this pussified legislation that really just annoying.

Neat that you read that though, I'd like to see that research. Lots of irritants are enough to change your body's state when encountered at low concentration though. I just don't see it being any worse than breathing regular diesel soot filled city air.

I just see it relatively. Maybe it affects a non-smoker, but if the effect is too small to matter or damage the person, then who cares? There's no basis for restricting outdoor smoking because it isn't having a net negative effect on the non-smokers walking past.

If on the other hand the research concludes that outdoor second-hand smoke is damaging to nonsmokers in the same way indoor second-hand smoke is, then there is a case for restricting outdoor smoking.

Problem is I've never heard of research that says outdoor second-hand smoke is anywhere near as bad as indoor second-hand smoke.

Mezla PigDog, on Aug 6 2009, 05:01 PM, said:

cerveza_fiesta, on Aug 6 2009, 03:29 PM, said:

I guess my point is that it doesn't hurt you in any way whatsoever to go through a crowd of smokers outside.

It does. I have never smoked anything and I can feel it in my throat and chest when I walk by smokers or stand next to one. It is really bad, especially if I have a cold or anything as it makes me cough. It is like getting a lung full of someone who has just sprayed deoderant or standing next to someone wearing too much perfume.

I mean in terms of actually hurting you (above reply to RLY). Lots of things make you cough/sneeze...like road-dust kicked up when a big truck goes by, or sitting on a dusty old couch.

But at that concentration, is it really doing anything to you permanently other than being mildly irritating? Its not like you're standing around all day every day in outdoor second-hand smoke. At most you stand next to somebody smoking during the time it takes them to finish a cigarette. It hardly constitutes chronic exposure...you're just mildly irritated by it.

==========================

@rly & Mez

not being contrary for the sake of it. The goal of anti-smoking policy and legislation is laudable. The implementation is what gets to me. Just ban the damn things or don't...enough of this pussy-footin' around.

This post has been edited by cerveza_fiesta: 07 August 2009 - 05:42 PM