[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Wry, on Mar 23 2009, 10:05 AM, said:

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Mar 23 2009, 04:33 PM, said:

Mezla PigDog, on Mar 23 2009, 08:40 AM, said:

Jesus, what's with the fucking character assassination?

No character assassination. You can hardly be surprised that when you say offensive things to people, sometimes it offends them. The snarky comment in this thread, on top of your thread in the Inn, leads me to believe that polite is not the first word that would come to mind to describe you. Sorry if you feel attacked by that.

On topic, I just watched What About Bob last night. Classic goofy Bill Murray.

Wow, that's a bit much.

I thought she was just expressing a commonly held belief. Most thinking people (on both sides of the atlantic) know that mainstream Hollywood films are always pitched at the "lowest common denominator" of American viewers, and they are looking for moraly unambiguous, thematically unsophisticated movies. they're the ones who need a grizzled veteran who never backs down to show misguided immigrant gangbangers that the best and only way to deal with a threat is force and aggression.

This movie is purposefully made that way, exploiting the cliché of "American" movies, so that it can upend everything in the last act. That concept wouldn't work if the cliche didn't hold a fair amount of truth. And couldn't be done if a fair amount of Americans didn't know and acknowledge this facet of their own culture.

That said it's Easy for us to say it's an american thing when all we have over here is relatively small movie industries that only allow arty indie flicks, and our mouthbreathers are going in droves to crappy movies just like yours.


And on topic: Watched Doubt last week really liked it. Amazing acting all round and i think the film really did a great job tacklng the issue without ever making a moral judgement. It's perfect, in the end all you're left with is doubt.

There's a huge difference between saying a movie is pitched at the lowest common denominator of the American audience, versus saying a movie is pitched at the lowest common denominator which IS the entire American audience.

I haven't seen the movie, so can't really comment on how good the film is, or about how it exploits the standard cliches at the end. Sounds interesting.

[Anomander]

Wow, you Americans would have hated this site a couple of years ago if you're taking that much offense to what Mezla said. There have definitely been times where I've watched a movie and it's obvious that while a good movie it's geared towards Americans. Happens a lot with war movies, spy movies, etc. Or the movie will contain an "American ideal" which is hammered home excessively.

This is also not something meant for this topic, but I guarantee each and every one of you has experienced times where someone may have the best of intentions in wanting to hang out with you, etc but you just aren't interested. Calling that rude is ridiculous and you guys need to get off your high horses for god's sake. If anyone does reply to this comment, I only ask you do so in the "I can't say no!" thread.

Slightly more on topic, I watched "Taken" last week. I thoroughly enjoyed it, Liam Neeson is an awesome secret agent. I particularly liked how he got injured fairly frequently, and that a lot of the action was hand to hand combat.

[Wry]

It is a pretty good movie when you look at it in that way.

Earlier in the thread someone asked for another example of an American "dumbed-down" film, i immediately thought of I am legend. Based on a passable short story, the premise of which is how a man who thinks he's the last human alive tries to maintain the last dregs of his humainity without anyone else around to reinforce it who discovers in the end that humans have become a legend to scare vampires. Not world shaking but interesting enough.

In the movie this turns into a man, possibly the last man alive (but because he never stops believing he finds a pretty woman) who is searching for a way to solve mankinds greatest mistake (mankind in general, scientists in particular who in their arrogance doom us all).
god tells the woman to believe and she'll be ok, and sure enough when she convinces the man of this he manages to find the cure and save the day. He is legend. Cue happy ending, everyone lives (except him, but it's ok he's a hero which is better anyway).

Now i enjoyed the movie upto the last ten minutes, but i couldn't help being appalled at ow they managed to strip all subtlety and sophistication from source material that was hardly a philosophical essay to begin with. it says alot when you realise that Will Smiths acting is really giving the only nuance to a film.

This to me is is when i roll my eyes and say "Americans" like an elitist snob, the needlessly stripping away of sophistication to ram a point down my throat is incredibly patronising, yet studio movies are the result of constant market consultation, advance screening etc, and this is the result.

"America" obviously wants it's morality unambiguous and plot point telegraphed and delivered with a mallet to the head.




The above might result in assassination of MY character except no one knows what it is!

[HoosierDaddy]

Then why watch American films? Why subject yourself to our "dumbing down" of sophisticated material so that we can understand it better?

[Stalker]

@ Rodeo, not too much good during April that I have on radar.
But May is looking gooood there is X-men Origins, Star Trek, and Terminator.

[Slum]

Seriously. Those movies sell just as many tickets overseas....

[Anomander]

Eh, while it can be annoying at times, I can still enjoy "Americanized" films just fine (most of the time... some movies just suck regardless). I'll just say that sometimes it would be a better movie without those things.

I'm not trying to poke fun at the people but rather the film industry. It's entirely possible if other "Western" countries had any sort of industry near the level of Hollywood their films would suffer from the same problems.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

I was here a couple of years ago, and would call people out for making generalized attacks on Americans back then too. It was bullshit then and remains so.

My issue is not with saying that some movie are geared towards Americans. Of course they are. My problem is with the idea that a movie must be geared towards Americans because it is stupid and unsubtle. How am I not supposed to take offense when someone calls me stupid and unsubtle?

Here's another thing. We live in a global market. A big part of the profits from a movie comes from overseas sales. So, if a movie is dumbed down, is it not probable that it is dumbed down to appeal to unsophisticated people everywhere?

[Illuyankas]

Tell me Michael Bay makes films for non-Americans. Go on.

[HoosierDaddy]

Have you ever seen a Michale Bay film, Illy?

[Aptorian]

Michael Bay made Armageddon and I will for ever love him for that.

Also Transformers was an awesome film (THAT RIGHT, AWESOME, FUCK YOU FILM CRITICS!!!)

[Illuyankas]

Aptorian, on Mar 23 2009, 06:57 PM, said:

Michael Bay made Armageddon and I will for ever love him for that.

Also Transformers was an awesome film (THAT RIGHT, AWESOME, FUCK YOU FILM CRITICS!!!)

Crap, I forgot your unnatural lust for American flags and sunsets led you to enjoy that obscenity. Although Transformers was much better than I was expecting - yes, not enough robots too many meatbags but the fightscenes were cool and Megan Fox is ridiculously hot in that movie.

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Illuyankas, on Mar 23 2009, 11:50 AM, said:

Tell me Michael Bay makes films for non-Americans. Go on.

Michael Bay makes movies for people who want a visually appealing sumer blockbuster type movie with a lot of explosions. Good fun, don't require much thought. There's people from every country who can appreciate that. Have you ever liked a Michael Bay film? Then you're probably one of the people his movies are geared towards. Besides, even very intelligent people like mindless entertainment from time to time.

So, if you want to say that Bay gears movies towards Americans because they show us saving the day most of the time ala transformers or armageddon, fair enough. If you say his movies are geared towards us because they are stupid and unsubtle like Americans are, then you're talking out of your ass. There's plenty of people from other countries down for a little bit of crash-boom-bang-kapow-endscene.

This post has been edited by Raymond Luxury Yacht: 23 March 2009 - 07:09 PM

[Anomander]

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Mar 23 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

I was here a couple of years ago, and would call people out for making generalized attacks on Americans back then too. It was bullshit then and remains so.

My issue is not with saying that some movie are geared towards Americans. Of course they are. My problem is with the idea that a movie must be geared towards Americans because it is stupid and unsubtle. How am I not supposed to take offense when someone calls me stupid and unsubtle?

Here's another thing. We live in a global market. A big part of the profits from a movie comes from overseas sales. So, if a movie is dumbed down, is it not probable that it is dumbed down to appeal to unsophisticated people everywhere?

Mk, I'm going to respond to a bit of this.

Wry had a point in saying that television/film is geared towards the "lowest common denominator". Unfortunately for you guys it tends to come across as absolutely stupid to foreigners. This is obviously not the case 100% of the time or anywhere near that however. But I mean really, the most popular shows are reality crap, the "popular" music is inane for the most part, and a trend for a blockbuster usually includes either cheesy comedy/romance/explosions. These things aren't subtle and some might term them stupid. So yes, because they pop up often in American culture when we see them in movies you wind up thinking "oh, it's geared towards Americans". Saying this though doesn't mean you guys are idiots. I was disolved of that notion once I started up on the internet and actually met some Americans and I daresay you'd find the same is true for most members on this site.

Your point on the "global market" has a flaw. If a Hollywood movie doesn't do as well nationally it doesn't matter as much to the film industry even if it turns a good profit globally. Point in case is the Golden Compass movie. The film did not do as well in the States as expected, so while it had a respectable income overseas it's unknown if a sequel will now happen despite that being the initial plan. And this is coming from New Line, so clearly they're more concerned with appealing to Americans and not the global public.

[Aptorian]

RodeoRanch, on Mar 23 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

Any decent movies coming out in theaters in the month of April?

WOOOOLVVVVERRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIINNNEEEEEEEE!!!!

At least I think its comming out in April. Towards May.

So fucking looking forward to this!

[Wry]

Well Hoosier you seem to be getting pretty defensive, which i can understand considering the spin you're putting on this. Why do i watch these movies? you maybe missed the part where i said i enjoyed most of the film. that's why i watched it. It's just frustrating when the meat is so consistently processed out of good ideas just to make it taste better.

People also seem to have missed where i acknowledge that there are plenty of people over here who like these films, and they're certainly not the people i'd want to hold up and say "these are the Irish". That said, studios don't test screen their movies here, they don't have Irish focus groups no matter how much money they want to make here. I also acknowledged the fact that our film industry doesn't really cater for the mainstream audience and that this is both a result of, and a reason for, it being small and amateur compared to Hollywood.

That said, can any of you honestly say that this is not part of your society and culture? This need to have black and white in morale issues, good guys and bad. Remember i'm talking about your society, not you guys personally (whom i know to be clever discerning folk - hence the hours a day i spend reading your posts)

I can certainately identify and despise the cultural flaws in my society.

[RodeoRanch]

Stalker, on Mar 23 2009, 12:39 PM, said:

@ Rodeo, not too much good during April that I have on radar.
But May is looking gooood there is X-men Origins, Star Trek, and Terminator.

I'm going to spend a large number of dollars at the movies in May. Oh yes.

[HoosierDaddy]

Anomander, on Mar 23 2009, 03:10 PM, said:

Raymond Luxury Yacht, on Mar 23 2009, 03:44 PM, said:

I was here a couple of years ago, and would call people out for making generalized attacks on Americans back then too. It was bullshit then and remains so.

My issue is not with saying that some movie are geared towards Americans. Of course they are. My problem is with the idea that a movie must be geared towards Americans because it is stupid and unsubtle. How am I not supposed to take offense when someone calls me stupid and unsubtle?

Here's another thing. We live in a global market. A big part of the profits from a movie comes from overseas sales. So, if a movie is dumbed down, is it not probable that it is dumbed down to appeal to unsophisticated people everywhere?

Mk, I'm going to respond to a bit of this.

Wry had a point in saying that television/film is geared towards the "lowest common denominator". Unfortunately for you guys it tends to come across as absolutely stupid to foreigners. This is obviously not the case 100% of the time or anywhere near that however. But I mean really, the most popular shows are reality crap, the "popular" music is inane for the most part, and a trend for a blockbuster usually includes either cheesy comedy/romance/explosions. These things aren't subtle and some might term them stupid. So yes, because they pop up often in American culture when we see them in movies you wind up thinking "oh, it's geared towards Americans". Saying this though doesn't mean you guys are idiots. I was disolved of that notion once I started up on the internet and actually met some Americans and I daresay you'd find the same is true for most members on this site.

Your point on the "global market" has a flaw. If a Hollywood movie doesn't do as well nationally it doesn't matter as much to the film industry even if it turns a good profit globally. Point in case is the Golden Compass movie. The film did not do as well in the States as expected, so while it had a respectable income overseas it's unknown if a sequel will now happen despite that being the initial plan. And this is coming from New Line, so clearly they're more concerned with appealing to Americans and not the global public.

1. Most popular television shows are "reality crap." This is nonsense. American Idol (designed by a Brit) yes, is popular. But not outside the 8-16 shrieking pre-teen/teenage girl faction. Lost... not complex? Battlestar Galactica... not complex?

2. Popular music: What does "popular" mean? Pop? Rap? If you think Rap is the most popular music in America you are sorely mistaken.

3. Blockbusters: See, the thing with blockbusters is that they have to appeal to large masses of people by their very definition. A film that is directed towards one demographic cannot become a blockbuster. It has to, by nature, be fairly bland enough that most people take some enjoyment out of it.

@Wry: Not defensive. I merely disagree, and am willing to state why I think you are wrong. Are you being, "offensive" (in the attack sort of way, not insulting)? No, you are stating an opinion as well. So...

This post has been edited by HoosierDaddy: 23 March 2009 - 07:19 PM

[Aptorian]

Take the America vs Europe discussion in here and stop the spam

http://www.malazanem...showtopic=14620

[Slum]

Your link no worky apt!

You know, Survivor, Big Brother, The Great Race (or whatever it's called) have been on for ages, but I can honestly say I've never met a single person who watches them. Same with the Biggest loser. No one I know watches that crap yet it gets renewed year after year.

So, obviously there's a large segment of America that likes that kind of thing, but I'll be damned if I know where they're from.

Probably Southerners.....