[QuickTidal]

I have (up till Friday) walked out of exactly 3 movies in my life (for those wondering: CRUISE 2: SPEED CONTROL, JOHN CARPENTERS GHOST'S OF MARS [projection issue; reels out of place], and THE WIND RISES [I was falling asleep])...now I have walked out of a 4th.

At the hour mark of the new HELLBOY movie, I decided enough was enough and I'd rather be at home doing ANYTHING else.

The movie is like the fever dream of some youth who had looked at a HELLBOY comic (without reading it, so just visuals), while listening to a bunch of hackneyed classic rock (including 'Rock You Like a Hurricane' unironically; yes, they seriously threw in a song that was made fun of on the Simpsons like a decade ago) and thinking that "cool" = "copious swearing and mind-numbing and gratuitous blood and gore"...then someone smacked them over the head with a shovel and they yelled "Action!"

I wish I was joking.

Neil Marshall is hit or miss for me already (I liked THE DESCENT, and CENTURION, but DOOMSDAY was meh to me, as was DOG SOLIDERS)...but this pretty much relegates him to "don't bother" to me.

The weird thing is that straining through the bad is some really solid attempts to be true to the source material on a surface level (AKA in look), the sequence with the Wild Hunt is largely taken directly from the source material...including the camera angles...so I'm sitting there like "Okay, this is really well assembled"....and the scene plays out (minus some HINKY dialogue and ADR) like it does in the comic it's based on...

Spoiler

basically with the Hunt betraying HB as they go to hunt giants, and the Hunt saying something like "Did you really think we'd let a devil sit on the throne of England (eluding to Hellboy's prophecied future)?" and they stab and eletrocture him....this is every bit from the comic it's based on...but then shit goes right off the rails. Basically the Giants who were the initial Hunt's objective knock Hellboy out as the Hunt is electrocuting him to kill him...and they annihilate the Hunt members to a man....so Hellboy wakes up to the Giants sitting over their kill.

In the comic: They see he's alive and they attack him and he slowly but methodically tries to incapacitate them, but they are a tough foe so he has to up his force and kill them, and you can tell it's reluctant because to access the power he needs to defeat them he has to tap into the power of Hell (something he doesn't want to use), and finishes them off...this literally haunts him for the rest of the story. Every time he is confronted with his possible future and the powers of king of Hell....he recoils and this act basically hangs on him like a morose reminder of what happens if he lets himself give in to the power.

In the movie: They are all sitting over a mound of corpses of the Hunt, in various states of dismemberment and skinning and they are eating, ripping, tearing and pulling apart the humans like chicken wings, and they see Hellboy. Hellboy attacks them without thinking (like there is no decision, he just goes at them) and takes them out in the goriest and most insanely violent ways he can, including cleaving one of their heads in twain by it's own huge sword which we see the aftermath of, all the while he's swearing and being angsty....and the scene ends, some blurry shapes pick him cup and take him to safety (AKA London). This scene is NEVER referenced afterwards (I asked a friend who sat through the whole movie) the way it is in the comic. In the source material it's literally the impetus for everything else that occurs and all HB's decisions are formed around having slaughtered the giants. Here it is simply used as a scene to show Hellboy's power and the gore factor can be up.

You get a similar difference when Gruachach (swine demon thing) finds the head of Nimue (the blood queen) and the rest of her body parts. In the comic finding/stealing the box with her head allows her to resurrect full body, done and done. In the film he has to find all her scattered pieces and then she sits on the couch of a house, severed limbs around her, torso the only thing intact and she seals her head back on. The scene is played for gore/horror and comedy, and it's about 5 minutes too long to boot. My problem here is that it's unconnected to the events at hand, and is entirely needless (which is why the comic doesn't dwell on it like this) and serves to underline Marshall (and I suppose the writers) need to make a cool, funny gory scene with Milla cutting jokes about being de-limbed as she holds her severed arm and a severed leg is laying across her like she's got you legs propped up. It's nonsense.

The CGI is 90's video game. And you guys know me, I RARELY complain about CGI in movies as I can usually approach its like set dressing in a play, I suspend my disbelief for the story....but the stuff here is BAD and coupled within a bad movie it stands out all the harsher.

And the makeup? UGH. As one review puts it....instead of like Perlman in the GDT HB's (in which the makeup was perfectly made for Perlman and he never felt like he was "wearing" it at all....in this Harbour can't seem to get his way to that ease...here the makeup is 100% wearing HIM, and he's trying to act through it. And often fails. Looking at Perlman's Hellboy, and Harbour's Hellboy in a side by side will make you realize how much thought and effort was put into Perlman's, and how little was put into Harbour's. The straggly hair doesn't remotely help either.

And Speaking of Big Red, he BARELY acts like Hellboy. Hellboy is a sometimes morose, mostly gothic, entirely realized character who is a sardonic wit, and has to be pushed to anger/upset. Neil Marshall's version of the character talks about strip clubs, makes BAD jokes that seem entirely out of place and just yells a LOT. He's not a detective in any sense of the word. Marshall turns him into (and the script even notes this) a weapon. It's as against what I know of the character as you could get. All of the scenes where he acts like this feel so incongruous. Prof Broom is no better. Aside from Ian McShane CLEARLY phoning it in...and he is; the character he's portraying would never act or speak in the way he's being made to here. And yes, F-Bombs every few seconds (including some in the opening historical narration).

The origin of Hellboy is rammed in there for weird reasons and even THAT is effed up. They have Rasputin and the Nazi's there to actually summon Hellboy...the soldiers and allies (which inexplicably include Lobster Johnson...) who are there are never pointed out much, they just are there with the baddies...and the whole point of HB's origin is that Rasputin and the Nazi's were NEVER seeking him...they were trying to open a doorway for the ancient entities, the Ogdru Jahad to come in through...and Hellboy comes through accidentally. This is not that. Here they are setting out for Rasputin to summon Hellboy...which is so strange. The Nazi's also inexplicably KILL Rasputin once he's done brining Hellboy through...which makes no sense as it kills off the second biggest nemesis in the series far too early. It's a shitty scene, and actively messes up the reasons the whole thing kicks off in the first place.

This is the problem with adapting the 9th graphic novel in the continuing episodic HB series as a reboot film. They've had to ram Broom in there (who was long dead at this point), the father/son conflict between HB and him, they've skipped over all the other BPRD who were around at this time (Abe, Liz, ect.), the throw the origin in there, and allow it to be some sort of catalyst to the drama between Broom and HB, which I mean, in the source material HB knew when he was a youth where he came from and why, using it to manufacture tension in this movie is dumb. They've thrown Ben Daimio in there for no reason other than I guess to have a BPRD agent in it...and Alice is fine, but the whole point of her is that she lives in the country because of her powers and their level...and here they've got her living in a flat in London? It would be like adapting a Malazan film, but starting with Toll The Hounds. It's inexplicable and would require SO much weird story positioning and retconning.

Now, I understand why they didn't start at the beginning, because the first GDT HELLBOY movie covered SEED OF DESTRUCTION and WAKE THE DEVIL...so they'd be retreading previous territory. That said, before the final writer took over duties, I DID hear that Mignola and Golden were basically penning what would have ended up being a straight on continuation of the HELLBOY graphics novels (main storyline) that came after the first GDT film....and it would not need to reboot so much as continue with new actors and new direction...but after it was handed off to Andrew Cosby to rewrite, it went into full reboot territory using The Wild Hunt instead...

I had MINOR issues with the GDT HELLBOY movies. I feel the leaned too hard into Gothic Superhero Team vibe, and not enough into the aesthetic of the comics for storytelling....but they not only nailed the characters PERFECTLY, but the tone, vibe and overall setting of the comics to a T. They are wonderful and enjoyable adaptations. Not without their problems, but compared to this new film, they are fucking MASTERPIECES of adaptation.

Also, and this is weird. There is a recent interview where Mike Mignola talks about how he barely MET Neil Marshall and was not really on set...and at that point he was not very involved (conflicting with the previously held notion that he was involved heavily, wrote the screenplay and was on set every day)...but then he's also on FB liking articles from critics who LIKED the new film and saying "Any negativity will be deleted, fuck you"....so I'm like...what is the real story here?

Anyways, re-watch HELLBOY (2004), and HELLBOY THE GOLDEN ARMY if you want a good movie about this world...and HARD skip HELLBOY (2019).

[Cause]

QuickTidal, on 15 April 2019 - 01:10 PM, said:

I have (up till Friday) walked out of exactly 3 movies in my life (for those wondering: CRUISE 2: SPEED CONTROL, JOHN CARPENTERS GHOST'S OF MARS [projection issue; reels out of place], and THE WIND RISES [I was falling asleep])...now I have walked out of a 4th.

At the hour mark of the new HELLBOY movie, I decided enough was enough and I'd rather be at home doing ANYTHING else.

The movie is like the fever dream of some youth who had looked at a HELLBOY comic (without reading it, so just visuals), while listening to a bunch of hackneyed classic rock (including 'Rock You Like a Hurricane' unironically; yes, they seriously threw in a song that was made fun of on the Simpsons like a decade ago) and thinking that "cool" = "copious swearing and mind-numbing and gratuitous blood and gore"...then someone smacked them over the head with a shovel and they yelled "Action!"

I wish I was joking.

Neil Marshall is hit or miss for me already (I liked THE DESCENT, and CENTURION, but DOOMSDAY was meh to me, as was DOG SOLIDERS)...but this pretty much relegates him to "don't bother" to me.

The weird thing is that straining through the bad is some really solid attempts to be true to the source material on a surface level (AKA in look), the sequence with the Wild Hunt is largely taken directly from the source material...including the camera angles...so I'm sitting there like "Okay, this is really well assembled"....and the scene plays out (minus some HINKY dialogue and ADR) like it does in the comic it's based on...

Spoiler

basically with the Hunt betraying HB as they go to hunt giants, and the Hunt saying something like "Did you really think we'd let a devil sit on the throne of England (eluding to Hellboy's prophecied future)?" and they stab and eletrocture him....this is every bit from the comic it's based on...but then shit goes right off the rails. Basically the Giants who were the initial Hunt's objective knock Hellboy out as the Hunt is electrocuting him to kill him...and they annihilate the Hunt members to a man....so Hellboy wakes up to the Giants sitting over their kill.

In the comic: They see he's alive and they attack him and he slowly but methodically tries to incapacitate them, but they are a tough foe so he has to up his force and kill them, and you can tell it's reluctant because to access the power he needs to defeat them he has to tap into the power of Hell (something he doesn't want to use), and finishes them off...this literally haunts him for the rest of the story. Every time he is confronted with his possible future and the powers of king of Hell....he recoils and this act basically hangs on him like a morose reminder of what happens if he lets himself give in to the power.

In the movie: They are all sitting over a mound of corpses of the Hunt, in various states of dismemberment and skinning and they are eating, ripping, tearing and pulling apart the humans like chicken wings, and they see Hellboy. Hellboy attacks them without thinking (like there is no decision, he just goes at them) and takes them out in the goriest and most insanely violent ways he can, including cleaving one of their heads in twain by it's own huge sword which we see the aftermath of, all the while he's swearing and being angsty....and the scene ends, some blurry shapes pick him cup and take him to safety (AKA London). This scene is NEVER referenced afterwards (I asked a friend who sat through the whole movie) the way it is in the comic. In the source material it's literally the impetus for everything else that occurs and all HB's decisions are formed around having slaughtered the giants. Here it is simply used as a scene to show Hellboy's power and the gore factor can be up.

You get a similar difference when Gruachach (swine demon thing) finds the head of Nimue (the blood queen) and the rest of her body parts. In the comic finding/stealing the box with her head allows her to resurrect full body, done and done. In the film he has to find all her scattered pieces and then she sits on the couch of a house, severed limbs around her, torso the only thing intact and she seals her head back on. The scene is played for gore/horror and comedy, and it's about 5 minutes too long to boot. My problem here is that it's unconnected to the events at hand, and is entirely needless (which is why the comic doesn't dwell on it like this) and serves to underline Marshall (and I suppose the writers) need to make a cool, funny gory scene with Milla cutting jokes about being de-limbed as she holds her severed arm and a severed leg is laying across her like she's got you legs propped up. It's nonsense.

The CGI is 90's video game. And you guys know me, I RARELY complain about CGI in movies as I can usually approach its like set dressing in a play, I suspend my disbelief for the story....but the stuff here is BAD and coupled within a bad movie it stands out all the harsher.

And the makeup? UGH. As one review puts it....instead of like Perlman in the GDT HB's (in which the makeup was perfectly made for Perlman and he never felt like he was "wearing" it at all....in this Harbour can't seem to get his way to that ease...here the makeup is 100% wearing HIM, and he's trying to act through it. And often fails. Looking at Perlman's Hellboy, and Harbour's Hellboy in a side by side will make you realize how much thought and effort was put into Perlman's, and how little was put into Harbour's. The straggly hair doesn't remotely help either.

And Speaking of Big Red, he BARELY acts like Hellboy. Hellboy is a sometimes morose, mostly gothic, entirely realized character who is a sardonic wit, and has to be pushed to anger/upset. Neil Marshall's version of the character talks about strip clubs, makes BAD jokes that seem entirely out of place and just yells a LOT. He's not a detective in any sense of the word. Marshall turns him into (and the script even notes this) a weapon. It's as against what I know of the character as you could get. All of the scenes where he acts like this feel so incongruous. Prof Broom is no better. Aside from Ian McShane CLEARLY phoning it in...and he is; the character he's portraying would never act or speak in the way he's being made to here. And yes, F-Bombs every few seconds (including some in the opening historical narration).

The origin of Hellboy is rammed in there for weird reasons and even THAT is effed up. They have Rasputin and the Nazi's there to actually summon Hellboy...the soldiers and allies (which inexplicably include Lobster Johnson...) who are there are never pointed out much, they just are there with the baddies...and the whole point of HB's origin is that Rasputin and the Nazi's were NEVER seeking him...they were trying to open a doorway for the ancient entities, the Ogdru Jahad to come in through...and Hellboy comes through accidentally. This is not that. Here they are setting out for Rasputin to summon Hellboy...which is so strange. The Nazi's also inexplicably KILL Rasputin once he's done brining Hellboy through...which makes no sense as it kills off the second biggest nemesis in the series far too early. It's a shitty scene, and actively messes up the reasons the whole thing kicks off in the first place.

This is the problem with adapting the 9th graphic novel in the continuing episodic HB series as a reboot film. They've had to ram Broom in there (who was long dead at this point), the father/son conflict between HB and him, they've skipped over all the other BPRD who were around at this time (Abe, Liz, ect.), the throw the origin in there, and allow it to be some sort of catalyst to the drama between Broom and HB, which I mean, in the source material HB knew when he was a youth where he came from and why, using it to manufacture tension in this movie is dumb. They've thrown Ben Daimio in there for no reason other than I guess to have a BPRD agent in it...and Alice is fine, but the whole point of her is that she lives in the country because of her powers and their level...and here they've got her living in a flat in London? It would be like adapting a Malazan film, but starting with Toll The Hounds. It's inexplicable and would require SO much weird story positioning and retconning.

Now, I understand why they didn't start at the beginning, because the first GDT HELLBOY movie covered SEED OF DESTRUCTION and WAKE THE DEVIL...so they'd be retreading previous territory. That said, before the final writer took over duties, I DID hear that Mignola and Golden were basically penning what would have ended up being a straight on continuation of the HELLBOY graphics novels (main storyline) that came after the first GDT film....and it would not need to reboot so much as continue with new actors and new direction...but after it was handed off to Andrew Cosby to rewrite, it went into full reboot territory using The Wild Hunt instead...

I had MINOR issues with the GDT HELLBOY movies. I feel the leaned too hard into Gothic Superhero Team vibe, and not enough into the aesthetic of the comics for storytelling....but they not only nailed the characters PERFECTLY, but the tone, vibe and overall setting of the comics to a T. They are wonderful and enjoyable adaptations. Not without their problems, but compared to this new film, they are fucking MASTERPIECES of adaptation.

Also, and this is weird. There is a recent interview where Mike Mignola talks about how he barely MET Neil Marshall and was not really on set...and at that point he was not very involved (conflicting with the previously held notion that he was involved heavily, wrote the screenplay and was on set every day)...but then he's also on FB liking articles from critics who LIKED the new film and saying "Any negativity will be deleted, fuck you"....so I'm like...what is the real story here?

Anyways, re-watch HELLBOY (2004), and HELLBOY THE GOLDEN ARMY if you want a good movie about this world...and HARD skip HELLBOY (2019).

I read that hellboy was apparently a disaster in production. The producers and directors were at each others throats and the main character waould walk off set and refuse to do reshoots of scenes. So no surprises. I read the director didn't even attend the premier.

[acesn8s]

Briar King, on 03 April 2019 - 05:02 PM, said:

Would Ledger still be the ultimate Joker if he hadn’t died before its release?

I’m inclined to say yes.

For TV and film, yes. I'm curious to see what Joaquin Phoenix is going to do with the character.

Mark Hamill is my favorite voice actor for the character.

[worry]

Would you rather sit through all of the new Hellboy or all of Little Nicky?

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 15 April 2019 - 06:21 PM, said:

Would you rather sit through all of the new Hellboy or all of Little Nicky?

LITTLE NICKY in a heartbeat. Even bad Adam Sandler is mildly entertaining.

Seriously, the new HELLBOY movie is a 'TAPOUT' t-shirt in film form.

[Aptorian]

So you're saying I'll like it?!

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 15 April 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:

worry, on 15 April 2019 - 06:21 PM, said:

Would you rather sit through all of the new Hellboy or all of Little Nicky?

LITTLE NICKY in a heartbeat. Even bad Adam Sandler is mildly entertaining.

Seriously, the new HELLBOY movie is a 'TAPOUT' t-shirt in film form.

I like this game!

HELLBOY (2019) or BATMAN & ROBIN (1997)?

[QuickTidal]

Aptorian, on 15 April 2019 - 06:47 PM, said:

So you're saying I'll like it?!

Knowing what I know of you and your movie tastes Apt...you will like it.

Abyss, on 15 April 2019 - 06:49 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 15 April 2019 - 06:39 PM, said:

worry, on 15 April 2019 - 06:21 PM, said:

Would you rather sit through all of the new Hellboy or all of Little Nicky?

LITTLE NICKY in a heartbeat. Even bad Adam Sandler is mildly entertaining.

Seriously, the new HELLBOY movie is a 'TAPOUT' t-shirt in film form.

I like this game!

HELLBOY (2019) or BATMAN & ROBIN (1997)?

B&R is campy and ridiculous but I'll take bad ice puns and Alicia Silverstone Batgirl every day over Edgelord Hellboy.

Sidenote: I 100% saw B&R in a midnight screening the night before it came out...

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 15 April 2019 - 06:53 PM

[Slow Ben]

Hellboy (2019) or The Last Jedi with Directors Commentary (2017)

This post has been edited by Slow Ben: 15 April 2019 - 07:36 PM

[Abyss]

Hellboy (2019) or Hulk (2003)?

[Tiste Simeon]

Hellboy (2019) or me taking a steaming dump (2 or 3 times a day every day)?

[Coco with marshmallows]

just to note, i went into Hellboy with no knowledge of the character except what appeared in first 2 films.

wasn't great, but wasn't terrible.

What was surprising was that it was a 15 rating (in the UK) - there is some VERY gory stuff in there. Genuinely surprised it wasn't an 18

[Salt-Man Z]

Coco with marshmallows, on 15 April 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

What was surprising was that it was a 15 rating (in the UK) - there is some VERY gory stuff in there. Genuinely surprised it wasn't an 18

Yeah, it's an "R" (17+) here.

[QuickTidal]

Slow Ben, on 15 April 2019 - 07:35 PM, said:

Hellboy (2019) or The Last Jedi with Directors Commentary (2017)

HELLBOY...no contest. You could not pay me to sit through any Rian Johnson crapfest again.

Abyss, on 15 April 2019 - 08:32 PM, said:

Hellboy (2019) or Hulk (2003)?

I maintain HULK 2003 is a solid solid film.

Tiste Simeon, on 15 April 2019 - 08:49 PM, said:

Hellboy (2019) or me taking a steaming dump (2 or 3 times a day every day)?

Wait, do you steam dumps 2-3 times a day?! What do you eat? Lol

[QuickTidal]

Watched BLACKkKLANSMAN last night and REALLY enjoyed it.

I've never seen John David Washington before, but he was incredible throughout, and Adam Driver proves once again to be a phenomenal actor.

And I'm hit and miss with liking or dis-liking Spike Lee joints, (DO THE RIGHT THING, MALCOM X, and INSIDE MAN are amazing, but SUMMER OF SAM, HE GOT GAME and his remake of OLDBOY not so much)...but this was peak Lee for me. He deftly takes a really visceral subject matter, doesn't shy away from the disturbing and prevalent shitiness of the era...but then makes it into a procedural, with a lot of humour and team dynamics as well. And what I thought was REALLY great were the not-so-subtle jabs in-story to the Trump Administration (It being posited to Ron that one day people like David Duke would lead to people in the hallways of power acting just like Duke behind the shield of politics and his disbelief that his country could fall so far)...and to cap the whole thing off by showing the Trump-era shit in the news (to show how far we still all have to go as a society) was the perfect coup de grace.

Wonderful and poignant film. Probably one of my fave Lee films ever.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 17 April 2019 - 12:46 PM

[Malankazooie]

SHRAZAABOOSH!

[Aptorian]

Awfull. Just awfull. If they wanted to do this story they should have started laying the ground in First Class. The Dark Phoenix arc was amazing because they spent a year or more in the comics building it up.

[polishgenius]

On the other end of the scale this looks FUCKING AMAZING. And I don't even care that the whole movie seems to be in the trailer, it ain't that kind of movie...

[QuickTidal]

polishgenius, on 18 April 2019 - 01:13 PM, said:

On the other end of the scale this looks FUCKING AMAZING. And I don't even care that the whole movie seems to be in the trailer, it ain't that kind of movie...

Two of the better characters from the franchise in a movie all on their own where they team up against a superpowered Idris Elba? I'm throwing my money at the screen right now. This is going to be amazing and batshit.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 18 April 2019 - 01:21 PM, said:

Two of the better characters from the franchise in a movie all on their own where they team up against a superpowered Idris Elba? I'm throwing my money at the screen right now. This is going to be amazing and batshit.

Directed by David Leitch AKA the John Wick/Atomic Blonde/Deadpool 2 dude, no less.