[Emurlahn]

I'm still trying to figure out the Barghast/D'riss argument so I'll reserve judgement on that, until I have read through it again. Galain has been on and contributed more, and tbh it is the weekend and RL does get in the way, and it is early days etc. Much the same as has been said already. The Korlat pretending to go to sleep situation is horrible. Why lie like that? It makes no sense for an inno/anarch, but then it strikes me as mad for scum to be so open. I'm going back through to have another read. None of the cases stand out to me as an obvious lynch/stake thru the heart/burning proposition as yet.

[Tennes]

ok, I guess Emur answered my question indirectly.

Korlat lied about going to sleep to see what people said when gone. Did someone also say that Korlat was symping/ being symped?

edit: that lying part doesn't look good.

This post has been edited by Tennes: 18 April 2009 - 04:25 PM

[D'riss]

Barghast said:

Yes it is a stretch. Tell me exactly how my reasoning was wrong. And what are you on about lynching solely on RP - imo RP on day 1 is not something an inno would do. As I also said in my post. I gotta say, you seem very stuck - did I insult your leader or something?

In the post in question you claimed:

Barghast, on Apr 17 2009, 12:16 AM, said:

My problem with his play is this: sure, as a town player one is more comfortable sticking the neck out, but why take the risk? After all there is a chance you end up on the day 1 train playing like this. No, I think it's more likely a non-town player would take the chance/risk playing like this, because he probably feel he has to do something.
I agree it's wifom, but it's my two cents.

Now, at the start of the game, we have no info about who the scum might be. The only way for anyone to get information from the thread is to provoke reactions and analyze them. Thus, as a townsperson, it is your job to try and do something on thread to get the information you need. They have a good reason to try and do something like this. The scum don't 'feel they have to do something', because they have all the information they need. So that is where your logic is flawed and wrong.

Barghast, on Apr 18 2009, 05:10 PM, said:

Anomandaris, on Apr 18 2009, 10:04 AM, said:

I disagree, D'riss has answered already and I agree with what he said. He was doing Vampire RP Day 1, in the Vampire Mafia game. I found it incredibly fucking annoying, however I can't say I thought it was suspicious.
What I did find suspicious was instead of saying its annoying, your making a reason as to why it would be scummy. Annoying isn't the same thing as scummy.

So please ask your serious questions, the really serious ones. I would hate to get only serious and not the really serious ones, its day 2 after all.

It wasn't the RP alone that was suspicious, it was the seriousness of the RP, even so much that Serc voted for me. You have to admit that it's wifom. And annoying can sure be scummy, depending on the level of gravity. I can't see how I was stretching anything - and if Serc is allowed be a complete douche to 'get reactions', then how am I not allowed to call his behavior wifom, and ask questions about it? You're being a strawmanning hipocrit.

It is WIFOM, yes. So why are you attaching significance to it? The whole concept of WIFOM is that it is behaviour that you cannot look at and say: "This is scummy" . Yet that is exactly what you are making it out to be.

[D'riss]

Tennes, on Apr 18 2009, 05:25 PM, said:

ok, I guess Emur answered my question indirectly.

Korlat lied about going to sleep to see what people said when gone. Did someone also say that Korlat was symping/ being symped?

edit: that lying part doesn't look good.

Korvalain followed Korlat's case on Liosan, and then immediately removed, which looked a little like a symp ploy to me. He has provided an explanation, but I'm not entirely convinced by it.

[Ampelas]

While I don't know if Lio ever said it out loud, he was insinuating that Korlat Korvalain and Rashan were the Sabbat. If they are its the worst job of hiding your allegiance I've ever seen. Still, since Korlat is the alleged leader its worth lynching him, imo, just to find out. And while it wouldn't clear the other two, it would prove that they weren't Sabbat.

Oops, crosspost, this is directed at Barghast

This post has been edited by Ampelas: 18 April 2009 - 04:47 PM

[D'riss]

OK, I'll leave it at that for the time being because tbh I find Korlat to be far more suspicious for today, but I'm afraid you'll just have to accept that IGMEOY .

[Tennes]

Ok, what has been said about Korlat makes me think it would be a good choice. Lynching a potential faction leader is always a good decision. At this point, I'll wait until Korlat talks a little bit but I'm leaning that way now.

[Anomandaris]

Well I'm off to bed, will be back before night end for a vote.

@Barghast your wrong thats not how it happened your reason for voting was OMGUS. For those trying to follow.
Serc was doing annoying RP and voted Barghast.
Barghast voted Serc in a case of OMGUS.

Barghast said:

Hey Serc, I'm not all for spraying blood all over the floor, like you are, but I can show my fangs too, if necessary. And frankly I don't like your tone.

vote Serc

For being a pretentious asshole.

Serc said it as an OMGUS vote and it was. And Silanah said

Silanah said:

I doubt Serc is actually referring to any kind of Lycans, TBH. I'd actually suspect he's probably in the majority faction since he feels comfortable throwing out an early non-OMGUS vote.

It was only after that you suddenly felt the need to justify your OMGUS vote with his "suspicious RP" and the fact he and then the stuff quoted by D'riss above and has been commented on already.

To me, it read much more like you didn't like being called out as putting on the OMGUS vote and wanted to put some sort of reasoning behind it. I can't decide if its your scum who wanted to be seen voting for a reason, you were trying to get Serc lynched, or your just caught up in Day 1 confusion as it so easily done. However it tickled me enough to make it worth commenting on, and for D'riss as well.

To be honest I can't say the way your defending yourself is helping your cause either.

Anyway back in 8 or so hours.

[Meanas]

Ampelas, on Apr 18 2009, 06:45 PM, said:

While I don't know if Lio ever said it out loud, he was insinuating that Korlat Korvalain and Rashan were the Sabbat. If they are its the worst job of hiding your allegiance I've ever seen. Still, since Korlat is the alleged leader its worth lynching him, imo, just to find out. And while it wouldn't clear the other two, it would prove that they weren't Sabbat.

Oops, crosspost, this is directed at Barghast

Checking the thread - this caught my eye. The links between those three are pretty tenous and voting someone 'just to see' pings my scumdar like mad. The tactic of linking players to other players and using CFs to extrapolate innocence is one that has been used to great success by symps in the past (for example DiBs in fine form during the Ambergris game), so I would refrain from it. Korlat coming up inno wouldnt clear Korv or Rashan of anything. Normally I would drop a vote on you for a post like this, but I'm more curious as to why Korlat lied about going away. Nevertheless EGMEOY

[Emurlahn]

Wish I had left off reading - the last few posts explain the D'riss/Barghast/Ano disagreement much better!

I still think that the Korlat case is the best one so far, but I want to hear from him. I have to get some food, but will be back on in about 2 hours (prob. less) so time to vote/discuss more then. I wish I could add something insightful, but someone/everyone else puts it so much better.

Edit: Cross post

This post has been edited by Emurlahn: 18 April 2009 - 05:38 PM

[Meanas]

Barghast, on Apr 18 2009, 07:40 PM, said:

Meanas, on Apr 18 2009, 12:33 PM, said:

Ampelas, on Apr 18 2009, 06:45 PM, said:

While I don't know if Lio ever said it out loud, he was insinuating that Korlat Korvalain and Rashan were the Sabbat. If they are its the worst job of hiding your allegiance I've ever seen. Still, since Korlat is the alleged leader its worth lynching him, imo, just to find out. And while it wouldn't clear the other two, it would prove that they weren't Sabbat.

Oops, crosspost, this is directed at Barghast

Checking the thread - this caught my eye. The links between those three are pretty tenous and voting someone 'just to see' pings my scumdar like mad. The tactic of linking players to other players and using CFs to extrapolate innocence is one that has been used to great success by symps in the past (for example DiBs in fine form during the Ambergris game), so I would refrain from it. Korlat coming up inno wouldnt clear Korv or Rashan of anything. Normally I would drop a vote on you for a post like this, but I'm more curious as to why Korlat lied about going away. Nevertheless EGMEOY

Whoa, I did not read Ampelas post as you did. I must be going blind. I certainly agree with you, that a possible inno CF of Korlat wouldn't prove anything for Korv and Rash. If we for instance can track their moves to be similar in this instance, we could extrapolate that they in fact were following Korlat just for the purpose of looking inno once the CF hits. Something to keep in mind.

Still waiting for Korlat to explain himself.

Glad you see it too. Although I must admit, with so many different scum factions in play, fake symping to try get probable-inno-by-proxy is one hell of a risky move. Still, making a comment like that based on so little evidence is definitely suspicious, if they're later taken as fact it plays merry hell on the innos.

[Gamelon]

Barghast, on Apr 18 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

@ Anomandaris, I don't need to defend myself, because I don't regret my omgus vote for Serc. I am explaining something that I shouldn't have to explain, but it's the nature of mafia, so I do it. Honestly I expected Serc would back down when I voted for him, but he didn't. I was annoyed by Serc, so it was only natural that I analyzed his behavior to see if there was something scummy about it. I don't regret that either. If you have to bash me because I did what anyone else would do if you would have been the one being jumped on by Serc, then go head, but you are clearly wasting your time, and I don't like it. It is starting to seem like you and D'riss have some hidden agenda here. Just saying.

So first you vote him OMGUS out of annoyance, then you say a few pages back that inno's shouldn't RP, and you thought he might be scum and that that was the reason, and now you explain for people that it was omgus (underlined, with the reasoning why it was omgus) and analysis of his behaviour, too? You must be Siegmund fucking Freud.

And the fact that people question either of the explanations since only here do you merge them, makes them dense, and has you explaining stuff 'they should know'? Pfff. Go teach at the University of Mafia, mate, and maybe I'll take classes if you come with something better than what you had on offer so far.

Then there's this little gem:

Quote

I don't need to defend myself, because I don't regret my omgus vote for Serc

Sorry pal, your ego is getting in the way of reality here. You don't defend what you feel sorry for or feel like defending, you have to defend that which people see as weird and illogical actions from your side. And you better make sure they understand the why and how, or you'll swing anyway.

Now, IGMEOY,as it seems you're looking for fights and are not hesitating to paint people with the scum brush when they disagree with you. That is either megalomania because you think you can solve the game all by yourself, or a possible indication of scumminess.

[Gamelon]

The Ampelas quote dug up by Meanas is pretty nice. Warrants some investigation after Korlat did or did not explain the why of his actions to our satisfaction...

[Meanas]

Gamelon, on Apr 18 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

The Ampelas quote dug up by Meanas is pretty nice. Warrants some investigation after Korlat did or did not explain the why of his actions to our satisfaction...

I wouldnt say I dug it up, it's on this page lol