[Gamelon]

Meanas, on Apr 18 2009, 11:51 AM, said:

Gamelon, on Apr 18 2009, 08:46 PM, said:

The Ampelas quote dug up by Meanas is pretty nice. Warrants some investigation after Korlat did or did not explain the why of his actions to our satisfaction...

I wouldnt say I dug it up, it's on this page lol

well, you offered it with a certain PoV people could (and did) miss

[Gamelon]

How droll, Barghast.

edit: And also a nice way to show you're simply not interested in the opinion of others, but dismiss it out of hand or make light of it

This post has been edited by Gamelon: 18 April 2009 - 06:55 PM

[Ampelas]

Whoa guys, I totally didn't mean it like that. I never said they'd be PI'd, I simply said they wouldn't likely be Sabbat. They could be Baali who know each other setting up Korlat for a lynch. I never said PI, I simply think its' less likely that they're Sabbat if Korlat is inno.

EDIT: Also, Meanas, its night 2, with no real info. Its hardly plausible that we can do much of anything other than to "just see."

This post has been edited by Ampelas: 18 April 2009 - 07:04 PM

[Meanas]

Ampelas, on Apr 18 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

Whoa guys, I totally didn't mean it like that. I never said they'd be PI'd, I simply said they wouldn't likely be Sabbat. They could be Baali who know each other setting up Korlat for a lynch. I never said PI, I simply think its' less likely that they're Sabbat if Korlat is inno.

EDIT: Also, Meanas, its night 2, with no real info. Its hardly plausible that we can do much of anything other than to "just see."

I dont really see how it makes them less likely to be Sabbat either.
/speculation
If there was any faction that would need send symp-master signals, it would be the Camarilla. From what I've read they have a heirachial structure, in gameplay terms I would read that as master and symp. The Sabbat are described as being close-knit groups, I would hazard that the Sabbat are aware of their other players. With only two Baali I would think the same, just from the numbers. This is just guesswork here, I could be completely wrong.
/speculation
Anyway, I know you didnt clarify them as being PI'd by Korlat's innocence, but it's very dangerous to eliminate even one faction by proxy unless there is a very definite link to do so. And we dont lynch 'just to see', unless it's a last minute lynch on day one. We may not have much info, but we do have some and we're following it. Maybe it's just the phrasing and the logic is different in your head, but to me what you said implies we're just guessing.

[Path-Shaper]

It is night 2, about 9 hours left. weekend freeze is in effect.

21 players are still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Korlat, Korvalain, Liosan Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Telas, Tennes)


takes 11 to lynch or 10 to go to day

3 votes Galain (Fener, Silanah, Rashan)
1 vote Rashan (Galain)
5 votes Korlat (Ruse, Meanas, D'riss, Ampelas, Barghast)

not voted: everyone else

everyone should say big "thank you" to sixty for keeping track of things.

I'm at home, with family and this means little net time, apologies to all

-ment

[Korlat]

Korvalain, on Apr 18 2009, 05:29 PM, said:

Just stepping in to get a bit caught up before I head off to work

D'riss, on Apr 18 2009, 10:02 AM, said:

Having gone over the stuff I've missed, the first thing that struck me as odd was Korvalain following Korlat and then immediately removing again. Set off some rather loud alarm bells in my head. The only thing that makes me pause is that it's so blatant a symp clue...but the case on Liosan was a nothing case, as far as I can tell, no way an inno would look at it and think it was worth following.

Okay, I thought I explained this earlier, but I'll do it again. Korlat's case, in the order that s/he presented it, at the time, seemed like a fair case and we didn't have anything else to go on at the time. There were 7 or so people on at the time, I figured why not join into the train and get the discussion going (generally a single vote on someone gets far less attention and discussion then 2 or more). But since in the next 5 minutes no one said a word and 4 people left the thread, I spent the time going back and looking over the posts more in-depth. In context and in order, they faired a lot better and I didn't think the case was so strong anymore, nor did I want that vote which I was no longer confident of hanging around for the following 8 hours while I slept, so I removed it.

And of course, now that people have been on and discussed Lio's case better, the poorness of the case on him is now blatantly apparent

Are you new to the game? You may be confused from the last two games thinking that in general people just put a case out there, people agree and then we omg pile on for the speed lynch. If you put your vote on and pull it off in 6 minutes, it just looks like a ploy and by extension makes you and me look suspicious as hell. It's just bad play.

@Ruse and others. Here's a hint if I go to bed, I just go and stop posting, I don't punch a time clock or put a big picture in the post to make sure Liosan reads it. I wanted to see what he'd do after I removed vote and the pressure was off and I wanted to give him the impression of a nice big 8 hour window to do it in. The "I was right" refers to exactly that, he went from nicey nice to trying to line up me with some bad play from Korv and dragging the other vocal objector at the time along for the ride. I'll say it again town don't do that. Scum are so worried they have had a light shone on them that they have to try and discredit their attacker.

[Ampelas]

Meanas, on Apr 18 2009, 03:41 PM, said:

Ampelas, on Apr 18 2009, 09:03 PM, said:

Whoa guys, I totally didn't mean it like that. I never said they'd be PI'd, I simply said they wouldn't likely be Sabbat. They could be Baali who know each other setting up Korlat for a lynch. I never said PI, I simply think its' less likely that they're Sabbat if Korlat is inno.

EDIT: Also, Meanas, its night 2, with no real info. Its hardly plausible that we can do much of anything other than to "just see."

I dont really see how it makes them less likely to be Sabbat either.
/speculation
If there was any faction that would need send symp-master signals, it would be the Camarilla. From what I've read they have a heirachial structure, in gameplay terms I would read that as master and symp. The Sabbat are described as being close-knit groups, I would hazard that the Sabbat are aware of their other players. With only two Baali I would think the same, just from the numbers. This is just guesswork here, I could be completely wrong.
/speculation
Anyway, I know you didnt clarify them as being PI'd by Korlat's innocence, but it's very dangerous to eliminate even one faction by proxy unless there is a very definite link to do so. And we dont lynch 'just to see', unless it's a last minute lynch on day one. We may not have much info, but we do have some and we're following it. Maybe it's just the phrasing and the logic is different in your head, but to me what you said implies we're just guessing.

Yeah, I seem to have a lot of difficulty articulating what I want to say. I also don't claim to have thoroughly read D'riss Barghast and, whoever else's argument on the last 2 pages or so. But from where I was last night when I went to bed there had been some links drawn that in my mind seemed to connect Korlat and the other two, Rash and Korv together quite neatly. Thats why I said what I did.

[Ruse]

D'riss, on Apr 18 2009, 04:02 PM, said:

With regards to Ruse's questions about Shadow/Sixty's style - he's not normally so talkative, but he did make a reference to school IIRC that sounded very like him. I think it's unlikely that it was an FM possession based on that.

Well, then, thanks. I'll take Shadow's death as a kill for now.

[Ruse]

Korlat, on Apr 18 2009, 09:55 PM, said:

@Ruse and others. Here's a hint if I go to bed, I just go and stop posting, I don't punch a time clock or put a big picture in the post to make sure Liosan reads it. I wanted to see what he'd do after I removed vote and the pressure was off and I wanted to give him the impression of a nice big 8 hour window to do it in. The "I was right" refers to exactly that, he went from nicey nice to trying to line up me with some bad play from Korv and dragging the other vocal objector at the time along for the ride. I'll say it again town don't do that. Scum are so worried they have had a light shone on them that they have to try and discredit their attacker.

Liosan's behavior was hardly a strong attack against you in particular. He was not pushing for a lynch on you, if anything it seems he was angling towards attacking Korvalain.

You "bed story" is a lie, like I said. Two, actually. One when you said "remove vote, now I'm off to bed" when you actually felt like lurking. Then the other when you became over-defensive and were forced to come back and felt the need to defend yourself, adding "Err, oh yeah, by the way, that bed story was totally a strategic plan"

I said before, I have no clue about this story about you three (I tend to not think there's anything there), but wholy batman does your attitude at that time stank.

[Telas]

Korlat, on Apr 18 2009, 03:55 PM, said:

@Ruse and others. Here's a hint if I go to bed, I just go and stop posting, I don't punch a time clock or put a big picture in the post to make sure Liosan reads it. I wanted to see what he'd do after I removed vote and the pressure was off and I wanted to give him the impression of a nice big 8 hour window to do it in. The "I was right" refers to exactly that, he went from nicey nice to trying to line up me with some bad play from Korv and dragging the other vocal objector at the time along for the ride. I'll say it again town don't do that. Scum are so worried they have had a light shone on them that they have to try and discredit their attacker.

Bold reads to me - "Fucking symp, stop being so obvious.

As to the rest, smells like bullshit to me. Its not a typical inno(town) move to lurk. Its also not a typical excuse for lurking, I pretended to go to bed to tarp another player. I mean, I re-red that whole section and nothing stood out to me at least, that Liosan was going to attack you. So how did you come to the conclusion that you could "set him up"?

[Ruse]

Indeed, how is Korv's attitude "bad play"? He was accused of agreeing with Korlat too closely, actually

[Korlat]

Yup. So just vote me off already, get a couple more and I'll hammer myself. I'm burnt out with the flow of the game. Day 1, people get RI or a shitty role and explode themselves, sucks for me being on their team. Loose play gets a guy lynched for a slip and now all the guilty can hide their slips behind it and say we can't make that mistake again! Day 2-4, everyone is afraid to make waves so they pile on the low posters because chances are they aren't going to fight back. Simple probability says there are more town low posters than scum using them to hide behind, so yippe, more of my team gone with the occasional chance to hit a gem. Day 3-6, active posters start cannibalizing each other for whatever reason (ego, game control, frustration). Day 6+, those that hung low, posted just enough, were helpful and didn't make too many scummy moves start playing the interesting part of the game which was usually, but not always was decided for them by their teamates already.

[Ruse]

... So you sayin' lynch the low posters?

[Mockra]

Ok back online at last and caught up. (My brain hurts.... alot....)
With regards to Tellan, it always sucks to hit a town on day 1 especially when they make a slip that makes them appear scum. However I have noticed that this tends to happen a lot here.

Now I have had 4 hours sleep in the last 24 hours so my mind is somewhat frazzled.
Was it Barghast that went after Serc and then Fener who vehemently refused to vote for Tellan on night 1?

Then as for the cases, there are cases on Galain, Rashan and Korlat atm.

Now assuming I have this straight, the Galain one is because he was lurking, responded to getting a few votes, said something about Rash and then got OMGUSed by Rash. So all in all 2 pressure votes and an OMGUS for a lurker.

The case on Rash is Galain apparently reacting badly to the pressure. So not much there, or at least nothing that stood out to me.

Then Korlat which seems to be an actual legitimate case. He apparently strawmanned Liosan, got beaten back, then pretended to go to sleep and when Liosan said more against him, he reappeared to defend himself claiming it was his strategy?

[Mentalist]

posting from my own account, b/c PS is set to GMT, and I needed confirmation on time

there is 7.5 hours left of Night 2

21 players are still alive: Ampelas, Anomandaris Barghast, D'riss, Emurlahn, Fener, Galain, Gamelon, Hood's Path, Korlat, Korvalain, Liosan Meanas, Mockra, Omtose, Rashan, Ruse, Serc, Silanah, Telas, Tennes)


takes 11 to lynch or 10 to go to day

3 votes Galain (Fener, Silanah, Rashan)
1 vote Rashan (Galain)
5 votes Korlat (Ruse, Meanas, D'riss, Ampelas, Barghast)

not voted: everyone else

[Mockra]

EBWOP: Sorry I mean trains not cases.

[Korlat]

Ruse, on Apr 18 2009, 11:02 PM, said:

... So you sayin' lynch the low posters?

I'm saying don't let the chronically low posters sign up for the game, there's like 5-6 every time, so I gotta take a 5 in 20 chance they are on my team? Why follow the same patterns? Yeah I get it, it's the safe play, it's also boring. I guess I'm just coming to grips with the fact that for me it's difficult to participate in a game where we spend 4-6 days getting rid of the blow-ups and the non-committal.

[Ruse]

Mockra, on Apr 18 2009, 11:06 PM, said:

Then Korlat which seems to be an actual legitimate case. He apparently strawmanned Liosan, got beaten back, then pretended to go to sleep and when Liosan said more against him, he reappeared to defend himself claiming it was his strategy?

And now he's claiming "burn-out" on day 2 after minimum challenge, giving up defending for fear-mongering.

I'm not saying it's impossible the scum is just lurking right now, but his last post is a bit over the top.