[Lisheo]

I reckon she's about 13 to 15. Her mind has regressed, I believe.
We all know the Mule of Darkness is the most powerful mage, anyway.

[Mcflury]

To me Beak is obviously the strongest and most enjoyable mage in the whole series thus far. Sure, QB and Rake and others might seem to be a lot more destructive, but Beak showed he masters all possible warrens (all 13 candles). The only reason he died defending the Bonehunters was because he opened more than 1 one warren at the same time (I think it's even mentioned somewhere in GotM... the only mage we know this far that can open different warrens at the same time is QB, and that's got something to do with his multiple souls thingy iirc)

Anyways, Beak was funny as hell (his thoughts about his young life were both very sad but also very, very brilliantly funny... I'll never forget the "I don't know how old I am... I was xx years old, but that's x amount of years ago now..."), cute as hell (in love with the captain, ever modest) and he stopped the freaking edur magic (which, fyi, Quick Ben could not, just check the scene where the empire fleets faces an Edur fleet... QB can only stop the enemy magic surge by bluffing and the help of T'Amber and... some Bonehunter who's name I forgot (from Fid's squad, can control animals, knows alot about spirit magic thingy)

Seriously, Beak rocked ass and of course in a duel he would've never won against Rake or QB or Iskaral Pust or Bauchelain or something, but that's just because Beak wasn't really the violent type of guy.

To some poster on page1: yeah, I remember something about Spindle using some form of magic too, but I don't think it was really warren magic, probably some kind of 'magic' that can best be described as luck or something.

Another very strong mage imo also is Kruppe. Even though we haven't got any obvious evidence of this I'm pretty sure he can outbest most mages (he resisted Caladan Brood, he just walked up at Iskaral Pust with no fear of retribution (and we know what Pust can do with his magic if he wants to), he stole whine from Baruk's cellar without setting off any ward,...)

Many strong mages in these books... but Beak holds a special place in my heart (Besides, we've still got to see the Bonehunters act in the next books, see what more gifts Beak handed them appart from the obvious gold hair, white skin and good-riddence of all scars and whatnot. Also don't forget Beak got a hill full of gifts, just like Itkovian did... so perhaps Beak is becoming a sort of God now too. On the other hand: perhaps Beak marched with the other dead to fight inside of Dragnipur and was obliterated by Chaos... I guess only future can tell )

[Dutch]

Mcflury, on Nov 1 2008, 11:47 PM, said:

Anyways, Beak was funny as hell (his thoughts about his young life were both very sad but also very, very brilliantly funny... I'll never forget the "I don't know how old I am... I was xx years old, but that's x amount of years ago now..."), cute as hell (in love with the captain, ever modest) and he stopped the freaking edur magic (which, fyi, Quick Ben could not, just check the scene where the empire fleets faces an Edur fleet... QB can only stop the enemy magic surge by bluffing and the help of T'Amber and... some Bonehunter who's name I forgot (from Fid's squad, can control animals, knows alot about spirit magic thingy)

I think you mean Bottle with this one.

Mcflury, on Nov 1 2008, 11:47 PM, said:

To some poster on page1: yeah, I remember something about Spindle using some form of magic too, but I don't think it was really warren magic, probably some kind of 'magic' that can best be described as luck or something.

Thanks for the answer, just checked the Dramatis Personae of MoI (Doh, that I didn't think of that before) and it states Spindle, Mage and Sapper, 7th Squad.

I'm wondering something else, maybe this is not the right place to ask, but it comes up to me now when I was looking through the rest of the Dramatis Personae list of MoI while I was typing this message and this post's subject is Mages anyway.

Sister of Cold Nights = Nightchill? I do remember that in one of the books someone is wondering if the same Nightchill that died at Pale (and that appeared later on within Silverfox) was the same as the one mentioned in different records of battles with quite some timespan in between them.

[Apsalar Shadowdancer]

It is the same Nightchill, she is also one of the three Elder Gods that cursed Kallor after the whole bringing the CG down to Wu.

Quote

As for you woman, unhuman hands shall tear your body into pieces, upon a field of battle, yet you shall know no respite

then later in that scean,

Quote

She (nightchill) shrugged. 'I shall endeavor to guard myself. When my destruction comes, it will be through betrayal and naught else.There can be no precaution against such a thing, lest my life become its own nightmare of suspicion and mistrust. To this, i shall not surrender. Until that moment, I shall continue to play the mortal game.'
'careful, then, K'rul murmured, 'whom you chose to fight for.'
'find a companion,' Draconus advised. 'A worthy one.'

that's from MoI P 28-29, at least on the PDF file that Google popped up for me. It show the set up, oddly after the fact, of her fighting for the malazan empire and Bellurdan as her companion. She was torn apart by a demon released by Tay's if i remember correctly.

This post has been edited by Apsalar Shadowdancer: 02 November 2008 - 02:10 AM

[Ain't_It_Just_]

That's part of what Kallor foretold in MoI's prologue; And you, woman, will be torn apart by inhuman hands on a field of battle.

I remember Beak said he couldn't turn his cnadles off and one other mage warned him he was gonna burn up. Does that mean he would have died inevitably?

[Mcflury]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Nov 2 2008, 12:16 PM, said:

I remember Beak said he couldn't turn his cnadles off and one other mage warned him he was gonna burn up. Does that mean he would have died inevitably?

I think the 'burning up' referred more to all other mages in that campaign who were getting exhausted from constantly hiding their squad and fighting non-stop, whereas Beak just kept going. Sure, Beak was having a hard time, but the 'burning up' in that moment was more a question of 'how long can he last still?' rather than literally burning up.

Beak could turn his candles off by the way, it's just in that last moment, where he is protecting all his new friends, he just doesn't do it. Perhaps in the process he suddenly finds himself uncapable of turning his candles off because he has gone too far already, but it's not as if any candle Beak enlightened would never go out anymore.

I found another reason why Beak is so awesome by the way: he can smell magic... from miles away. I quite honoustly haven't seen any other mage do that (except when they have some Eleint thingy in them, but that's because of the Eleint and not because of themselves).

[Grief]

Actually, tattersail mentions she can see magical auras from moons spawn, which is quite far away. Loads of others can "sense" things. Its just beaks is the only one that manifests as smell.
Tool senses tattersails magic amongst a whole desert.

Covergence-Power draws power.

If one power didnt even know the other was there, the chances of it being drawn are a lot slimmer.

And beak certainly isnt the only person able to use more than one at once.

Rake, reffered to by QB?(iirc) as having multitudes/hosts or somesuch.

Also, im not sure more warrens at once really implies epic mastery. Sure its empressive, but if someone else can achieve the same result using 1 warren, then id have to say, actually, they're a bit better.

For example, id say QB isnt as impressive as people who could do it with 1.
Cause he needs 7, for the same effect.
And if they have the ability to use more than one, and dont choose to, thats even more impressive.

On the note of kallor.
Spoilered, cause I cant remember where its from:

Spoiler

Didnt technically Nightchill betray the maalzans first, by attacking A'Karonys. As such, Tay didnt really betray her. Id say that the curses are failing a bit

[Mcflury]

Grief, on Nov 2 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

And beak certainly isnt the only person able to use more than one at once.

I don't think anyone ever said that (at least I didn't, or at least I didn't mean what I said this way). Obviously Beak couldn't open multiple warrens at the same time: it's what killed him in the first place (but of course, also what 'blessed' all the others). The greatness in Beak, in my words, isn't in the ultimate power he can show off, to me Beak is the greatest mage because he masters ALL warrens (or at least it's hinted that way... I mean, he masters Tellan... pretty impressive to me ) and is very exquisite and subtle in the ways he uses it (not like Tay's "I'll just throw a wall of fire at them" or QB's "I'll bust your ass with 3 warrens and keep 4 to guard myself...").

Grief, on Nov 2 2008, 02:30 PM, said:

Also, im not sure more warrens at once really implies epic mastery. Sure its empressive, but if someone else can achieve the same result using 1 warren, then id have to say, actually, they're a bit better.

For example, id say QB isnt as impressive as people who could do it with 1.
Cause he needs 7, for the same effect.
And if they have the ability to use more than one, and dont choose to, thats even more impressive.

Very true. And that's why Beak is the greatest (sure, he can't use more than one at the same time or else he hurts himself... but it's pretty impressive that in the end he does do so and gives his own life for hundred's others (even some Edur, who they'd been fighting all the time before)). Besides, appart from half-godlings and QB I haven't heard of many dudes that can actually open more than 1 warren at the same time. Could just be me needing a re-read though.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

You know what I want to see? Bottle's power manifest into something legendary. Having the Eres'al to lend a hand (if ya know what I mean he he) is all well and good, but I want Bottle to unleash his magic. He HAS the power, but he never uses it like QB and Beak...

You know Hood was waiting for Beak? Well, he did the same for Toc. Maybe Beak has a spot in HHD?

[Jude]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Nov 2 2008, 07:51 PM, said:

You know Hood was waiting for Beak? Well, he did the same for Toc. Maybe Beak has a spot in HHD?

Oh GROW up, Ain't it Just

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Jude, on Nov 4 2008, 11:18 AM, said:

Ain't_It_Just_, on Nov 2 2008, 07:51 PM, said:

You know Hood was waiting for Beak? Well, he did the same for Toc. Maybe Beak has a spot in HHD?

Oh GROW up, Ain't it Just

I fear this will become a Thing ™

[Fifty]

I think there are too many differences to make a real judgement. It is a breadth vs. depth issue. You could also call it quantity versus quality. 13 warrens of QB, but none at full power, or Tay limited to one (or a couple?) but at 99% power? On a battlefield, I'd want Tay, but on the run from foes, trying to hide, hunting for something? I'd want QB.

There is more to consider. Warrens vs Holds, sure, but what about Nil and Nether and their style of magic?

The thing about Erikson is that Malazan is one big game of Rock-Paper-Scissors. Sure, Tay would beat QB on a field of battle, but, maybe QB would beat Paran and his cards, and maybe Paran would beat Tay by using the deck on him.

Now you could argue against my specific example, sure, but in general, I think the point I am trying to illustrate would be valid still. There is no clar cut "best". It is like any good deck of Top Trumps. Every card has at last one card that can beat it in one area. (There are, admittedly, some shit decks of Top Trumps where one card reigns supreme.)

[Jude]

Fifty, on Nov 5 2008, 04:59 AM, said:

(There are, admittedly, some shit decks of Top Trumps where one card reigns supreme.)

Cough Rake. Glad HE'S gone, just in the sense that we don't have anything that can cheapen the last two books any more by playing Deus Ex. I mean the way he handled things at the end of MoI was my one problem with that book aside from the Mhybe ofcourse. haha. It almost made the BB deaths useless. Anyway, Fifty said it pretty good.

[Mcflury]

@Aint it just: Though I (also) found Beak's death very tragic, I believe I'd hate it if he suddenly came into play again now. Beak died. He died happily after a life that was basically full of crap (even though he didn't really experience it that way). Bringing him back alive, back into that crappy world where all he could become was a squad mage (see Whiskeyjack talking to Paran in GotM for reasons why that isn't a good thing, to be a soldier) might just be the cruelist thing ever. Beak is happy now, playing with his brother.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Playing with an amnesiac with wax and glue for all eternity...

[Lisheo]

Beak's brother wasn't an amnesiac. Beak had grown up, and his brother hadn't. He'd been sitting there for years, making a wax city like the ones Beak used to love so much, to try and make up for what he did. It's not his fault he couldn't tell who adult Beak was. He'd only known a much younger Beak.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Lisheo, on Nov 7 2008, 11:26 PM, said:

Beak's brother wasn't an amnesiac. Beak had grown up, and his brother hadn't. He'd been sitting there for years, making a wax city like the ones Beak used to love so much, to try and make up for what he did. It's not his fault he couldn't tell who adult Beak was. He'd only known a much younger Beak.

Tom-ay-to

Tom-ah-to

[Spindle]

This is easy to answer! Kruppe!

come on now, if you wanted someone WITH you? How often is Kruppe in the wrong place, at the wrong time? He's always setting things up, knows whats coming before it does, and when the shit hits the fan - magic or not, he's always got a way out! I'd say Quick Ben, but I'm sure you could get killed pretty fast hanging around with him.

Plus, Kruppe always has tasty treats and drink. How could you pick anyone else?

[Kalahinen]

zwitterion, on Oct 25 2008, 06:41 AM, said:

Also SE doesn't necessarily seem too keen on quantitative, anime style power matchups
(Quick Ben: in this form my fighting power is over one million!
Menandore: *gasp* fighting power one million?! impossible! IMPOSSIBLE!)
(yeah.. no.)

LOL!

By the way, nice to see the forums seem the same despite the changes...People are still having the debate about the Most Powerful.

P.S. I am the member no. 106? Wow, nice add.

This post has been edited by Kalahinen: 16 November 2008 - 09:00 PM

[Lisheo]

Please. QB has a fighting power of over NINE THOUSAND! (Actually, I met the guy who does Brolly's voice yesterday, woo.)

Its pretty much the same, Kalahinen. These threads never die.