[D'rek]

Plus Janall was being shaped up to be something too. Seemed like she was trying to become a more powerful servant of the CG and talking (striking a deal?) with Hannan Mosag...

L'oric, on Jan 11 2009, 07:56 PM, said:

*D'rek and the Queen of Dreams are sort of against the CG. Why? What else are they going to throw into the mix mash melting pot of convergences.

They are against the CG, but not all that much. Hood and Shadowthrone are the big opposers of the CG, making crazy manipulations in order to thwart him and fighting off his influence. Mael beat him up a bit and some gods like T&F have their mortal followers opposing him. However, D'rek's opposition was more in the form of not letting his/her followers pick that side and now they're all dead except Bananaschar, so don't expect D'rek to do much with no followers. As for the QoD, I can't really think of her even opposing the CG yet. All she's really done is pull out Leoman and Dunsparrow and talk to L'oric. Maybe Hood could've used Dunsparrow to drag her into the conflict, but that option is kind of exhausted now, isn't it? So I wouldn't expect much from either of those two...

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Janall, when speaking with the CG, said she wanted her throne. Perhaps she will take to haunting the palace like the Errant.

It still seems to me that Cotillion and Shadowthrone are still working for their own ends. Ok...maybe not so much Cotillion but as of RG they now have a way into Starvald Demelain. Another advantage in the War Against Imperfection, or their own meddling? To be honest, so far no Ascendant has openly declared war against the CG. Unless someone can disprove that?

[flea]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 15 2009, 11:59 PM, said:

Janall, when speaking with the CG, said she wanted her throne. Perhaps she will take to haunting the palace like the Errant.

Sorry to ask, but would someone remind me who Janall is? I don't remember her at all.

[Mcflury]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 16 2009, 08:59 AM, said:

To be honest, so far no Ascendant has openly declared war against the CG. Unless someone can disprove that?

I believe Karsa did... of course, he's fighting some sort of 'me against the world' fight, but I also seem to remember he basically told the CG he was not going to be chained, and would kill everyone who tried to chain him.

[Urizen]

flea, on Jan 17 2009, 05:58 PM, said:

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 15 2009, 11:59 PM, said:

Janall, when speaking with the CG, said she wanted her throne. Perhaps she will take to haunting the palace like the Errant.

Sorry to ask, but would someone remind me who Janall is? I don't remember her at all.

Janal was King Eganza's(Sp?) queen before he got himself deposed by Rhulad and the Edur. In MT she was of the pricipal pawns (along with her son Quillas?)the Errant used to start the war against the Tiste Edur. In the finish Hannan Mosag used her and her son to somehow boost his magical powers, turning them both into broken wrecks. In RG she's a drooling moron who hangs out in the palace basments talking with the CG. Nisall, Rhulad's concubine tries early on to recruit Janal to her side but ultmately rejects it due to Janal being on Team Crippled God and still selfishly insane.

[Sinisdar Toste]

Janall was the wife of ezgara diskanar, hannan mosag turned her into a conduit for the CG power and put her in a sack so now shes deformed and insane

[Ain't_It_Just_]

I wish we'd found out what happened to Quillas Diskanar.

[Mcflury]

Didn't janall drown and stuff?

[Aptorian]

That was Rhulads parents who were locked in the catacombs.

[Sindriss]

I am wondering if there is any connection between the TTH spoiler where dust of dreams is mentioned somehow when that annoying girl suicides. You know, the one who was married to the idiot who killed murillio, the one who crocus had a crush on early on in GOTM.

CRAZY THEORY! - QOD will suicide to save the world. Hopefully she will take the errant with her

[Ain't_It_Just_]

You just made my day with that Errant's-demise scenario, Sindriss.

[lord of tragedy]

this dust of dreams speculation is beginning to annoy me now. the phrase gardens of the moon was a metaphysical flourish on crokus's behalf. it was lush, naieve, full of yearning and self absorbtion, like crokus. the title of the book was laced with irony in using this phrase. for me it painted a contrast between those who believed they understood there own experiences and those who had so much left to learn. ( in a way GOTM is the classic buildingsroman (excuse the spelling) of crokus's path to self awareness like lord jim or potrtrait of the artist). dust of dreams in connection to chalice is again part of that lushness, she will never be in control of her own experiences, her fantasies are infantile, she defines herself in opposition to people. cutter rejects her, choosing to continue his journey. i would hazzard a guess that dust of dreams is again a writerly flourish on eriksons behalf. it will again continue the thema of experiences affecting people in different ways. some will live, some will die, some will wallow in the crapulence of their limited imaginations. the dust of dreams.

[Epiph]

I disagree. If Crokus' story is a bildungsroman at all, then his arc in GotM is hardly the whole arc. I would argue that Crokus only comes to the end of a bildingsroman arc in TtH when he changes his name back to Crokus.

Classic bildingsroman focus on journeys that help ease a youth out of rebellion and into society (re folk tales). Even early novels that were bildingsroman focus on a physical journey. The form has been sophisticated since its humble origins, but most frequently still takes the form of a physical journey.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

So he did change his name back? Great. That whole Cutter ensemble was starting to piss me off.

So, lord of tragedy, if we are to project this onto the next book, I think it means many illusions will be shattered. And I think it's possible, seeing as we are heading into the eastern wastelands of Lether. That's my two cents.

[lord of tragedy]

epiph your right. the arc does end in tth but the buldingsroman need not reach a conclusion in GOTM for it to follow that classical path. the key idea for me is what the gardens of the moon symbolise. crokus' naievety, his rebellion against society by chasing a woman of higher social standing, a total encapsulation of illusory or delusionary stupidity. chalice is so limited that she can never attempt any kind of journey. she stays in Darujistan and i think erikson is at pains to contrast between them. cutter experiences an existential crisis while she schemes and is used and abused and generally sullies herself with the just the type of people she despises. it is crokus who doubts there relationship, crokus who challenges his own experiences in the hope of something better. she can't challenge anything. she has never journeyed. her pathetic life is a pale imitation of crokus'. her thoughts the dust of his dreams. sorry its rambling i think as i write.

ain't it. i think your right. i think this book will probably see a lot more deaths. something tells me that someone will have to suffer badly for erikson to set up the big payoff in the final book. i would be extremely worried about tool and his new found humanity. this book will probably be the bleakest. but thats just my two cents also.

[Seguleh 1st]

i dont think that there will be so many deaths. but if there are, they should not affect the bonehunters. it wouldnt be right, after what they have suffered as of yet.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Is that true...or just naive?

I can't see the 14th being ripped to bits by KCCM like The Host, but I'm certain some will die.

Maybe will be first.

[beru]

i think fid will use the drum vs the KCCM (and get munitons from TTG that arived with mappo)

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Who says they're carrying munitions?

[beru]

they make a contract with them so they travell back to malazan enmir and get their hand on some munitons then travell back and deliver