[Traveller]

I want to speculate that Rake isn't dead dead, as in gone completely.

Is it possible that the figure seen at the end of RotCG is Rake?
I know there are arguments for it being Draconus, but it seems to be far more like a sort of 'ghost' form of Rake, from the description.

- Rake moved the Gate, and was reunited with MD. I think he is the returned 'King of Night' that is
sensed - not Draconus. Rake is MD's son, whatever links Draconus has with KG.
The 'King of Night' title seems like the 'Wind' title given to Osserc - a different name for the same
thing, given by different people (or by ICE).

- The dark hair thing. If Rake has changed, joined with Kurald Galain/MD, he's now lost his (aged)
physical form. The figure is translucent, and carries the 'ghost' of Dragnipur at his side.

- All the time Draconus has been in Dragnipur, Rake has been out, growing older and more powerful;
he is far more the true owner/wielder of Dragnipur, even if Drac did forge it - if Rake were to
ascend even further after his reunion with MD, if that were possible, would a physical representation
of him, however ephemeral, not carry the sword?

The figure might prove to be Draconus, but at the end of TTH, after long imprisonment, Draconus didn't seem to be in a state of mind to go confidently 'projecting' himself onto a distant battlefield, or have any reason to.

However, if Rake is still around - as the new King of Night... if he could, he would surely manifest at an unveiling of KG.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 08 January 2009 - 10:21 AM

[Aptorian]

There's one major flaw in this.

Rake returning would be STUPID!

[Benji]

And didn't the unveiling of KG at the battle occur BEFORE TtH?

My money's still on it being a projection of Draconus from within the sword. The image of Dragnipur itself would either be Draccy willing it that way or the sword's effect on Draccy's current location.

[Traveller]

I want to speculate that Rake is dead dead....

[BeLeG]

Aptorian, on Jan 8 2009, 10:08 AM, said:

There's one major flaw in this.

Rake returning would be STUPID!

quoted for absolute truth

[Dancer+]

Rake is almost certainly dead, it would ruin it if he weren't. Now it's Silchas' turn to do something meaningful for Mother Dark; he's the only one remaining.

[Sindriss]

And I want to see silchas mourn when he learns about his brothers death.

[Illuyankas]

Sindriss, on Jan 8 2009, 07:58 PM, said:

And I want to see silchas TEAR ASS when he learns about his brothers death.

Fixed.

[Cougar]

4 things I am personally certian of:

Silchas has a role to play yet, his 2 brothers are gone and he has actually done very little so far, so I think he is being set up for a good part, he and Osric are the only 2 of the ancient Tiste Ascendants left alive (as far as we know) yes I'm including Tulas Shorn, I don't count him as alive.I' also guess that Silchas could sense his brother had passed on at the moment he did.

The shake will have a part in either DoD or the CG, there is more about their history than meets the eye. They are the watch against the K Chain,with Andii and I reckon Liosan heritage (ie they watch the dusk and the dawn) which leads me to my next point

The K Chain presence on Lether is going to play a massive role in DoD; I've been dead certain of this since SE "wasted" half of BH writing the unjustly criticised Redmask story line, I'm sure this was a prelude to establish an active and agressive K'Chain contingent on Lether.

Karsa is being set up to be in Darujistan for the end of the series, although it's 50/50 whether this will be part of SE's story or part of the ICE cycle.

This post has been edited by Cougar: 08 January 2009 - 09:34 PM

[lord of tragedy]

the fact that karsa is now in the hands of "return of the clunky guards" ICE fills me with dread. he is not involved in the end of the book which erikson has made explicit. this leads me to wonder then what exactly karsa did that made him so important and secondly just what god will be butchered by karsa and ice?

[Aptorian]

lord of tragedy, on Jan 9 2009, 08:49 PM, said:

he is not involved in the end of the book which erikson has made explicit.

Uhm, you read that in an interview or something?

Karsa has been put on stand-by for some god killing. No one says he can't be summoned in a jiffy to slay a god in DoD or TCG.

Over the course of the series Quick Ben, Paran and Karsa has been set up as being three central opponents against the CG. I would be surprised if they're not there at the very end. Dead or Alive.

[ritchiediaz]

benji said:

And didn't the unveiling of KG at the battle occur BEFORE TtH?

My money's still on it being a projection of Draconus from within the sword. The image of Dragnipur itself would either be Draccy willing it that way or the sword's effect on Draccy's current location.

I agree.

One interesting exchange I've found during a re-read of TTH is between Draconus and Ditch:-

Quote

Ditch laughed a second time. ' I looked for you...seems centuries ago, now.'
'Now you have found me.'
'I thought you might have found a way of escaping. Now isn't that funny? After all if you had, you would not still be here, would you?
'That seems logical'
An odd reply. 'Draconus.'
'What?'
'Are you a logical man?'
'Not in the least. Now, here we are.'

This curious little exchange seems to imply to me that Draconus is indicating that he may well be able to 'escape' from Dragnipur; logic would dictate that he would not still be present within the sword if he could escape, but Draconus clearly states that that being logical is not his strong suit.

I meant to post this in the Toll the Hounds forum when I noticed it as it does seem to have some bearing on the KG unveiling being prior to the Dragnipur desrtruction.

Any one else think this means anything, or is Draconus simply being obtuse?

[Aptorian]

Well, for instance would Draconus get hurt taking the same exit as the shadow hounds?

Draconus said he was going to change the sword after Kallors curse. Maybe he could leave.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Aptorian, on Jan 8 2009, 08:08 PM, said:

There's one major flaw in this.

Rake returning would be STUPID!

We have to balance certain evincing facts and SE's love of BRUTAL SLAUGHTER of his BELOVED CHARACTERS.

Perhaps Draconus knew that, one day, Rake or another Andii would come to remove the Gates. So he stayed around for that. Hmmm...perhaps not.

[L'oric]

If we are going to go to Lether I would like to see.

*The evolution of Tool from T'lan Imass to Imass and if he can reclaim what made him the First Sword.
*Kilava and Onrack...I think without a doubt that Kilava is one of the most powerfully represented spellcasters in that no one ever doubts that she will infact kill them when she says so. *Tempered by Onrack's compassion and Trull's death I see the couple as worth knowing more about.
*Just how good is Bry's now? First Sword good? Dassem good? Most likely somewhere in between. More knowledge on this can't hurt, are we talking Bry's, Kilava, Onrack, Tool versus KCCM ala Mok Envy and Tool?
*Fiddler and Hedge "Reunited" (sing the song if you know it) will QB become High Mage of the 14th again?
*What happened to the Marines when Beak saved them? Just cosmetic or did he alter them somehow? Gesler and Stormy? Will they walk through walls and place Fener into the Pantheon all by themsleves? What will they do if they meet Fener "in person."
*Does everyone in the 14th know what happened in ROTCG?
*Did Mappo already find Icarium...will we see him find Icarium? What the hell happened with Icarium?...Will anyone try to kill off the KCCM by using him as a weapon? Are those days finally done?
*D'rek and the Queen of Dreams are sort of against the CG. Why? What else are they going to throw into the mix mash melting pot of convergences.
*The maturation of Sinn...actually the maturation of all the marines left behind. I really liked the squad dynamic storytelling in Reaper's Gale.
I am sure I will think of more things I would like to see but thats good for now.

Sincerely,

[Ain't_It_Just_]

That reminds me; did Shake Brullyg die?

[Aptorian]

Probably not. He didn't commit any crimes. When Twillight returned he was forced to back down. He's probably still the ruler of his little island, but he answers to the queen of the Shake.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

By the way, what importance do the Shake have again? I bet we see Twilight and her people in DoD.

[Urizen]

Ain't_It_Just_, on Jan 15 2009, 09:33 AM, said:

By the way, what importance do the Shake have again? I bet we see Twilight and her people in DoD.

At the moment, no real importance, but given that they are Tiste Andiii decendants( from Siilchas Ruin's faction) and that Mother Dark, Draconus and Silchas Ruin are once again active the Shake might develop into another bastion for Darkness, a Black Coral lite.
Unfortunately I don't think we'll see Twilight in DoD since the story seems to be heading towards the the eastern parts of the continent and they are "stuck" on the westcoast.
I do think though that you could make great story with focus on Twilight and the Shake. Twilight struggling with the burdens of rulership/leadership while outside threats from Tiste Edur and Letherii and plots and schemes from within with the Shake Witches and Brullyg. Add some "magical" problem of some sort, Hybrid KCCM bent destruction or some such and you might get a suitable mess..


By the way, what happened to Janal, the ex-queen/empress that became Consort in Chains?

[Aptorian]

She just disappeared. It really annoyed me that Erikson didn't rap that up. Like dropping a hint she escaped or that she died of organ failure or something.