[Tsundoku]

The floods in Libya. Fuuuuuuuuuuuck.

[QuickTidal]

In most of the climate change documentaries of the 2000's and 2010's they would show the climate-thrown carnage of our possible future if we did nothing....those scenes of weather carnage just seem to be "the news" now.

Fuck the climate deniers for letting it get this bad in service to capitalism.

[worry]

Yeah, absolute nightmare.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 13 September 2023 - 01:14 PM, said:

...
Fuck the climate deniers for letting it get this bad in service to capitalism.

The worse part... to me... it's not just the deniers.

We know the deniers won't do anything, that part is obvious. Profit will always outweigh social responsibility until it ceases to be profitable.
But the massive middle category of people who believe in climate change but have decided it's someone else's problem and the inconvenience of driving a smaller car, supporting less polluting options, and just reducing their imprint generally... that's the frustrating part. They know it, but they won't add their actions and voices to the attempt to correct it.

[worry]

The jury's still out.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

worry, on 13 September 2023 - 01:47 PM, said:

The jury's still out.

Of time.

We'll see whether new effective technological solutions come about and actually get implemented, but reversing what we've already done would be extremely difficult. Maybe quantum computing and future AI will provide some hope (as acclaimed physicist and science writer Michio Kaku argues in his new book).

Of course there's still some time to keep it from getting a lot worse, or from even worse cascade failures leading to climate change so extreme that scientists consider it practically impossible for us to stop or reverse. (Maybe we could just blow up the Earth and make another one?... Don't mention that to Elon Musk though, he already has enough terrible ideas.)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 13 September 2023 - 02:49 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Quote

Earth is outside its 'safe operating space for humanity' on most key measurements, study says

[...] "We are in very bad shape," [...] "We show in this analysis that the planet is losing resilience and the patient is sick."

[...] The fact that ozone layer is the sole improving factor shows that when the world and its leaders decide to recognize and act on a problem, it can be fixed and "for the most part there are things that we know how to do" to improve the remaining problems [...]

"I've often said if we don't quickly cut back on how we are stressing the Earth, we're toast, [...] This paper says it's more likely that we're burnt toast."

Earth is outside its 'safe operating space for humanity' on most key measurements, study says (msn.com)

Ecce fabam...

So raise our glasses to the sun to burn,
And start to dig more mountain hobbit-holes
Well-reinforced against the floods of floods...

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 14 September 2023 - 12:05 AM

[Puck]

So, how does one find new friends at 34 when one has found that what one thought of as friends aren't?

It's fine, people change (or not, that being the issue here). But it's depressing.

[amphibian]

Puck, on 17 September 2023 - 09:44 AM, said:

So, how does one find new friends at 34 when one has found that what one thought of as friends aren't?

It's fine, people change (or not, that being the issue here). But it's depressing.

If you have hobbies or professional related pursuits that bring you outside to be around people doing the same thing, go do them and talk to people. If that's not something you've done or are doing, sign up for co-ed sports teams and talk to people there.

[amphibian]

I left out a whole part about how it stinks to have to make that distance with ex friends. Be well, stick to hope that you'll be alright and thriving, and taking care of yourself here is the right move.

I'm sorry.

[Tsundoku]

Puck, on 17 September 2023 - 09:44 AM, said:

So, how does one find new friends at 34 when one has found that what one thought of as friends aren't?

It's fine, people change (or not, that being the issue here). But it's depressing.

Sounds like a bit of a story if you care to share.

[Maark Abbott]

Weather stressing me out. We're getting the tail end of Lee over the next couple days. Mostly dissipated but rain and wind ain't my friends.

[Puck]

amphibian, on 17 September 2023 - 07:58 PM, said:

Puck, on 17 September 2023 - 09:44 AM, said:

So, how does one find new friends at 34 when one has found that what one thought of as friends aren't?It's fine, people change (or not, that being the issue here). But it's depressing.

If you have hobbies or professional related pursuits that bring you outside to be around people doing the same thing, go do them and talk to people. If that's not something you've done or are doing, sign up for co-ed sports teams and talk to people there.

Thank you, amph, you always have level headed advice and I appreciate you for that!

I'm not into sports that include other but I should probably look into some other activities. I will definitely be going to shows again as soon as I can (I'm dealing with a somewhat fresh still heel spur atm, fun times). I'm fortunately to have amazing colleagues which helps with getting some social interaction and not despairing completely but we do not share interests. At the very least I know through them I am not completely socially inept and am fun to be around. Helps my self-esteem.

amphibian, on 17 September 2023 - 11:00 PM, said:

I left out a whole part about how it stinks to have to make that distance with ex friends. Be well, stick to hope that you'll be alright and thriving, and taking care of yourself here is the right move. I'm sorry.

It does. The worst part is that I am likely to lose my best friend through distancing myself from these other people. I've mentally worked through everyone else, if that makes sense. I'm alright with people drifting away/apart, I've never actively cut ties with people, though. I acknowledge that I will be fine and probably better off in the end. IT just hurts in the moment. Thank you again for your kind words.

Also going on a cruise in two weeks. Lots of time to read and relax.

Tsundoku, on 18 September 2023 - 07:48 AM, said:

Puck, on 17 September 2023 - 09:44 AM, said:

So, how does one find new friends at 34 when one has found that what one thought of as friends aren't?It's fine, people change (or not, that being the issue here). But it's depressing.

Sounds like a bit of a story if you care to share.

Not sure anyone actually wants to read that but if you insist, here's a rambly summary. It was a good way to write own all the thoughts I have on this matter:

Spoiler

Not much of a story, just a years-long dragged out situaton that peaked recently and which I am really, really tired of.

Ever since graduating my circle of friends has largely consisted of people I studied with and people I met through the people I studied with. We play Dungeons & Dragons together. Since Covid hit this has been the only thing we have done together. Which would have been fine, but I have been increasingly discovering by chance that these people have been spending time together without ever asking me if I want to join in and if asked why it was always stuff like "oh, we were going to watch movies and you don't like movies" or "oh, we were going to play x game and you don't play games"... Both are things I rarely do but enjoy when I have company and that's hardly a secret. "Oh, you are surely always tired from work"... Oh, please, I work from home four days of the week. I crawl out of bed 15 minutes max before starting work.

I mean, it was fine, we were still playing D&D and our campaign had been running for almost 11 irl years by this point and due to some moving away and people just genuinely getting other priorities in life I was fine with that. What some on this very forums may remember is that I used to struggle majorly with depression. I've done therapy. I'm actually good now. But I have a major trigger that stems from how my depression was likely caused by bullying and abandonment and that trigger is feeling like I am unwanted somewhere (with friends, etc.). My instinct then is to pull away because I don't want to impose myself on others. Thanks to therapy I've learned to deal with that and althought the above situation was sometimes challenging, that's life and that's ok.

That's also made it difficult for me to just go out and meet other people. And going out alone makes you look weird. I do occasionally go to concerts and such on my own, I'm mainly there for the music anyway, but I have to be in the right mind space to do that. I occasionally ask my best friend if she wants to come along but since I do not like the "right" kind of music (I prefer death metal over black metal, woe is me) that almost never happens. I used to have two people I would somewhat regularly go to shows with (independently of each other) but one turned out to be anti-vaxx and a cultist and I do not knowingly mingle with anti-vaxx ans cultists and the other reconciled with his parents and got a girlfriend so I'm not interesting to be around anymore (story of my life, but good for him, I genuinely wish him the best, we had a good friendship while it lasted, I just wish he'd told me directly instead of "oh, my stomach hurts" or "oh, I can't be home past 11pm just because").

Anyway, due to the things mentioned in the first paragraph, I have been increasingly feeling disconnected with these people. It was fine for a while because I'm fine with being alone a lot and with having few friends, and there was regular Dungeons & Dragons where we would catch up and talk for hours before and after a session, but increasingly it was talk about things I could not comment on because I had not been asked to participate and I had nothing interesting to tell them because nobody cares about all the drama my colleagues get up to at work (they are lovely as far as colleagues go, though).

I have also been having a bit of a beef with one guy from that D&D group. Basically, I think he's self-centered and refuses to get his self-diagnosed depression treated while living off his parents (who are not rich, and I do not dismiss depression, I know how hard it can be, it's just... it's not going to get better by hiding). We generally simply do not talk and things are fine. But after a long, long string of similar events spanning several years, a few months ago he managed to hog a very major plot point I had been looking forward to for months (and vocally so) to himself and essentially causing my character I've played for years and years to lose ten levels and a prestige class. Even though we do have a rule that we do not actively harm other player's characters unless we have spoken about it before and the DM has been informed. The DM assured me she'd find a way to not make me lose all that, but:

As mentioned, this wasn't the first time something stupid like that happened directed at me and I had already spoken out about it before. And I generally try to give people an out in the lines of "Look, I will believe you if you say it was an oversight/excitement/spur-of-the-moment-thing or whathave you. This is how I feel about it. Can we not have that happen again, please? We're good." He avoided every single one of these talks and I have had the DM relay my opinion every time. Every time it was her saying "Oh, it's also my fault, I am the DM, I should pay more attention and keep you on track." No. No, you shouldn't, we are adults playing a darn game. Others manage, too.

Anyway, this time I flipped. I confronted him directly during the next session. Not in the "Omg, you are such an asshole"-way. But in the "Listen, you knew I was looking forward to this session for months, you knew it would make my character unplayable, you knew the rule about not harming other player's characters, and you did not even try to consult anyone else on what you did. That was shitty and I am not apoligizing for calling that behaviour out." I also mentioned how this was the first plot in years that sort-of involved my character so of course I was excited while everyone had gotten plotlines centered on them, some more than once. I let it be known that if that plot-hogging thing happened again I'd leave the campaign. Cue everyone saying "Please don't, we like you."

The DM tried the "Oh, it's also my fault for not paying better attention and I am so sorry about the plotines, the next one was planned to be centered on your character!" Well, great, it's taken you almost 11 years. We sort of tried to talk about how that one guy is so focused on her and eager to impress her that it's not funny anymore and her excuse was "Well, that's probably because we watch movies together every week so he's gotten so used to only talking to me and slips into that dynamic." Mind you, she's supposed to be my best friend and the last time we spent time together outside of D&D was months ago.

Something I should also mention is that my "best" friend:
- I only ever see twice a year in person (three times if I am really lucky) even from pre-Covid times
- 70% of the time I am the one initiating conversations
- 99% of the time I am the one asking how she's doing, what's going on, how are her parents doing (whom I'm on good terms with)
- basically never asks me to do anything with her/come along to anything (we do live a two hour train ride apart, but for example, we had a vague plan to do a day trip this summer, which took weeks to decide on where we want to go, then she insisted we absolutely have to go by train (she owns a car, I do not), then cancelled because there was construction work on the train tracks, and my suggestion of at least circumventing the construction work by car and meeting up halfway was no good)
- has never had one word of advice when I was having a hard time and never asks for mine either (other people do, though, both of those things)
- doesn't keep a conversation going when we do see each other in person

She does have her good sides, but yeah, I am just tired of the not good ones.

Anyway, she blocked any further conversation saying I was being too harsh to that dude by confronting him so directly and that she would look into a solution. I offered to be available for a talk at any time and mentioned I was feeling increasingly disconnected to the group as a whole. She did not ask why. I mentioned it to two other people in the group. Neither asked why, either. I waited a month. There was no communication beyond a meme or two.

Next D&D session finally rolls around. I get a cryptic message that surprising things are about to happen. Cool, at least someone here talked to someone. Wasn't me again, though, even though I was the one who had an issue. We start. I make an offhand remark joking with someone entirely else before the game proper starts. It was actually mock-bikering with the person it was directed towards. I get firmly shut up in front of everyone by the DM (also, again, my best friend who told me I was too harsh in trying to talk openly) for not letting "the topic" die already. I'm like wtf and leave the session because I am this close to a panic attack because I have the feeling everyone talked without including me. Again, I tell the DM in a message that I am 1. having a panic attack, 2. was talking to and about someone completely different and that person was equally wtf about it, and 3. I am, again, feeling disconnected from the group. She does not comment beyond "That's not true, you are part of the group." Not wanting to ruin it for everyone, I come back, apologise for something I didn't do, we start the session...

The big surprise is that that guy has changed characters. That's it. We don't even get to speak ingame. What's worse, his "new" character is just a gender-swapped version of his old one. I call bullshit (ingame). He doesn't say a word and now everyone expects me to be the party leader because the one other person willing to is pretending everything is fine with a new character and everyone else just genuinely can't be arsed. I also get presented with a plotline that's 100% catered to my character and ignores everyone else.

We're in out 30s, goddamn. I don't know if I want to cry or to laugh out loud. I've tried patience. I've tried talking. I'm done with these people. And the only person (even though she may not sound that great in that account) I'd be sad to lose is the DM.

I need normal people in my life. People who are willing to communicate. People whom I can see in person more than twice a year. I don't care about anyone's taste in music, I'll come along to your favourite band as long as we can enjoy the moment. People whom I can have a freaking conversation with. I do not feel like myself with those people anymore. I still have my issues and bad character traits but I have grown in the past years and most of these people have not. That's really all there is to it.

If not for the damned Dungeons & Dragons, I'd just go no contact. Nobody would notice, anyway.

This post has been edited by Puck: 18 September 2023 - 10:49 PM

[Tiste Simeon]

Puck, you only need us on the Malazan Empire forums. Everyone else is just extraneous

[Slow Ben]

Tiste Simeon, on 19 September 2023 - 11:32 AM, said:

Puck, you only need us on the Malazan Empire forums. Everyone else is just extraneous

Your wife and children will be thrilled.

It’s true though.

[amphibian]

Puck, on 18 September 2023 - 10:45 PM, said:

It does. The worst part is that I am likely to lose my best friend through distancing myself from these other people. I've mentally worked through everyone else, if that makes sense. I'm alright with people drifting away/apart, I've never actively cut ties with people, though. I acknowledge that I will be fine and probably better off in the end. IT just hurts in the moment. Thank you again for your kind words.

Also going on a cruise in two weeks. Lots of time to read and relax.

Tsundoku, on 18 September 2023 - 07:48 AM, said:

Puck, on 17 September 2023 - 09:44 AM, said:

So, how does one find new friends at 34 when one has found that what one thought of as friends aren't?It's fine, people change (or not, that being the issue here). But it's depressing.

Sounds like a bit of a story if you care to share.

Not sure anyone actually wants to read that but if you insist, here's a rambly summary. It was a good way to write own all the thoughts I have on this matter:

Spoiler

Not much of a story, just a years-long dragged out situaton that peaked recently and which I am really, really tired of.

Ever since graduating my circle of friends has largely consisted of people I studied with and people I met through the people I studied with. We play Dungeons & Dragons together. Since Covid hit this has been the only thing we have done together. Which would have been fine, but I have been increasingly discovering by chance that these people have been spending time together without ever asking me if I want to join in and if asked why it was always stuff like "oh, we were going to watch movies and you don't like movies" or "oh, we were going to play x game and you don't play games"... Both are things I rarely do but enjoy when I have company and that's hardly a secret. "Oh, you are surely always tired from work"... Oh, please, I work from home four days of the week. I crawl out of bed 15 minutes max before starting work.

I mean, it was fine, we were still playing D&D and our campaign had been running for almost 11 irl years by this point and due to some moving away and people just genuinely getting other priorities in life I was fine with that. What some on this very forums may remember is that I used to struggle majorly with depression. I've done therapy. I'm actually good now. But I have a major trigger that stems from how my depression was likely caused by bullying and abandonment and that trigger is feeling like I am unwanted somewhere (with friends, etc.). My instinct then is to pull away because I don't want to impose myself on others. Thanks to therapy I've learned to deal with that and althought the above situation was sometimes challenging, that's life and that's ok.

That's also made it difficult for me to just go out and meet other people. And going out alone makes you look weird. I do occasionally go to concerts and such on my own, I'm mainly there for the music anyway, but I have to be in the right mind space to do that. I occasionally ask my best friend if she wants to come along but since I do not like the "right" kind of music (I prefer death metal over black metal, woe is me) that almost never happens. I used to have two people I would somewhat regularly go to shows with (independently of each other) but one turned out to be anti-vaxx and a cultist and I do not knowingly mingle with anti-vaxx ans cultists and the other reconciled with his parents and got a girlfriend so I'm not interesting to be around anymore (story of my life, but good for him, I genuinely wish him the best, we had a good friendship while it lasted, I just wish he'd told me directly instead of "oh, my stomach hurts" or "oh, I can't be home past 11pm just because").

Anyway, due to the things mentioned in the first paragraph, I have been increasingly feeling disconnected with these people. It was fine for a while because I'm fine with being alone a lot and with having few friends, and there was regular Dungeons & Dragons where we would catch up and talk for hours before and after a session, but increasingly it was talk about things I could not comment on because I had not been asked to participate and I had nothing interesting to tell them because nobody cares about all the drama my colleagues get up to at work (they are lovely as far as colleagues go, though).

I have also been having a bit of a beef with one guy from that D&D group. Basically, I think he's self-centered and refuses to get his self-diagnosed depression treated while living off his parents (who are not rich, and I do not dismiss depression, I know how hard it can be, it's just... it's not going to get better by hiding). We generally simply do not talk and things are fine. But after a long, long string of similar events spanning several years, a few months ago he managed to hog a very major plot point I had been looking forward to for months (and vocally so) to himself and essentially causing my character I've played for years and years to lose ten levels and a prestige class. Even though we do have a rule that we do not actively harm other player's characters unless we have spoken about it before and the DM has been informed. The DM assured me she'd find a way to not make me lose all that, but:

As mentioned, this wasn't the first time something stupid like that happened directed at me and I had already spoken out about it before. And I generally try to give people an out in the lines of "Look, I will believe you if you say it was an oversight/excitement/spur-of-the-moment-thing or whathave you. This is how I feel about it. Can we not have that happen again, please? We're good." He avoided every single one of these talks and I have had the DM relay my opinion every time. Every time it was her saying "Oh, it's also my fault, I am the DM, I should pay more attention and keep you on track." No. No, you shouldn't, we are adults playing a darn game. Others manage, too.

Anyway, this time I flipped. I confronted him directly during the next session. Not in the "Omg, you are such an asshole"-way. But in the "Listen, you knew I was looking forward to this session for months, you knew it would make my character unplayable, you knew the rule about not harming other player's characters, and you did not even try to consult anyone else on what you did. That was shitty and I am not apoligizing for calling that behaviour out." I also mentioned how this was the first plot in years that sort-of involved my character so of course I was excited while everyone had gotten plotlines centered on them, some more than once. I let it be known that if that plot-hogging thing happened again I'd leave the campaign. Cue everyone saying "Please don't, we like you."

The DM tried the "Oh, it's also my fault for not paying better attention and I am so sorry about the plotines, the next one was planned to be centered on your character!" Well, great, it's taken you almost 11 years. We sort of tried to talk about how that one guy is so focused on her and eager to impress her that it's not funny anymore and her excuse was "Well, that's probably because we watch movies together every week so he's gotten so used to only talking to me and slips into that dynamic." Mind you, she's supposed to be my best friend and the last time we spent time together outside of D&D was months ago.

Something I should also mention is that my "best" friend:
- I only ever see twice a year in person (three times if I am really lucky) even from pre-Covid times
- 70% of the time I am the one initiating conversations
- 99% of the time I am the one asking how she's doing, what's going on, how are her parents doing (whom I'm on good terms with)
- basically never asks me to do anything with her/come along to anything (we do live a two hour train ride apart, but for example, we had a vague plan to do a day trip this summer, which took weeks to decide on where we want to go, then she insisted we absolutely have to go by train (she owns a car, I do not), then cancelled because there was construction work on the train tracks, and my suggestion of at least circumventing the construction work by car and meeting up halfway was no good)
- has never had one word of advice when I was having a hard time and never asks for mine either (other people do, though, both of those things)
- doesn't keep a conversation going when we do see each other in person

She does have her good sides, but yeah, I am just tired of the not good ones.

Anyway, she blocked any further conversation saying I was being too harsh to that dude by confronting him so directly and that she would look into a solution. I offered to be available for a talk at any time and mentioned I was feeling increasingly disconnected to the group as a whole. She did not ask why. I mentioned it to two other people in the group. Neither asked why, either. I waited a month. There was no communication beyond a meme or two.

Next D&D session finally rolls around. I get a cryptic message that surprising things are about to happen. Cool, at least someone here talked to someone. Wasn't me again, though, even though I was the one who had an issue. We start. I make an offhand remark joking with someone entirely else before the game proper starts. It was actually mock-bikering with the person it was directed towards. I get firmly shut up in front of everyone by the DM (also, again, my best friend who told me I was too harsh in trying to talk openly) for not letting "the topic" die already. I'm like wtf and leave the session because I am this close to a panic attack because I have the feeling everyone talked without including me. Again, I tell the DM in a message that I am 1. having a panic attack, 2. was talking to and about someone completely different and that person was equally wtf about it, and 3. I am, again, feeling disconnected from the group. She does not comment beyond "That's not true, you are part of the group." Not wanting to ruin it for everyone, I come back, apologise for something I didn't do, we start the session...

The big surprise is that that guy has changed characters. That's it. We don't even get to speak ingame. What's worse, his "new" character is just a gender-swapped version of his old one. I call bullshit (ingame). He doesn't say a word and now everyone expects me to be the party leader because the one other person willing to is pretending everything is fine with a new character and everyone else just genuinely can't be arsed. I also get presented with a plotline that's 100% catered to my character and ignores everyone else.

We're in out 30s, goddamn. I don't know if I want to cry or to laugh out loud. I've tried patience. I've tried talking. I'm done with these people. And the only person (even though she may not sound that great in that account) I'd be sad to lose is the DM.

I need normal people in my life. People who are willing to communicate. People whom I can see in person more than twice a year. I don't care about anyone's taste in music, I'll come along to your favourite band as long as we can enjoy the moment. People whom I can have a freaking conversation with. I do not feel like myself with those people anymore. I still have my issues and bad character traits but I have grown in the past years and most of these people have not. That's really all there is to it.

If not for the damned Dungeons & Dragons, I'd just go no contact. Nobody would notice, anyway.

I'm going to say a couple things and then back off because ultimately this is your situation to navigate:

Not having a D&D game is a much better situation than having a bad D&D game with bad people over and over.

Finding a new D&D game could be a journey, but the odds of it being better than what you've been going through lately are pretty good - even if it's just medium quality.

I'd jump ship and leave this group behind - because they are treating you like crap over and over. They are not taking actions that connect directly to repair of the hurt you took from the character damage and the lack of conflict resolution. There's been multiple chances for that and they keep missing them.

[Lady Bliss]

Try a larp group. You make friends and a lot of them will be into DnD

[Maark Abbott]

Lee is here. Weather like this always makes me antsy, even though the Pennines took the majority of it for us yesterday and today is only meant to be a few hours' worth of real shite. Propanolol and earplugs lessgo

[Slow Ben]

amphibian, on 19 September 2023 - 03:20 PM, said:

Not having a D&D game is a much better situation than having a bad D&D game with bad people over and over.

100%

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Slow Ben, on 20 September 2023 - 03:17 PM, said:

amphibian, on 19 September 2023 - 03:20 PM, said:

Not having a D&D game is a much better situation than having a bad D&D game with bad people over and over.

100%

Agreed. I left a group after realising it's not worth poisoning your joy in the hobby by putting up with things just for the sake of having a game - but it took me a long time after repeated incidents. I recognise some of the behaviours you mention - no open discussion, ostracising people when they raise an issue (however carefully and politely). It's not fun and not worth your overall peace of mind - particularly when this is supposed to be a close friend of yours.

it took me well over a year to feel like finding a new game again, but the new game is positive and has much better boundaries - I was lucky though, it could have taken a few tries to find the right fit. Do you have something like Meetup.com or similar over there? I've always found that useful as a starting point for finding similar interest groups for hobbies.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 22 September 2023 - 11:02 AM