[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2022 - 02:39 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 02:04 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 25 October 2022 - 07:51 AM, said:

... puts us at £252 a week, and just over £1000 a month.

For context our entire year's bill for FY2021-22 was about £960.

We can't afford heat. We literally can't.

The.
Fuck.

How you have not revolted and executed your gov by now i do not understand. They're actively trying to kill you.

Revolutions have been started for less. Capitalism has fucked us ALL into acceptance for so long that it slid into Neo-Feudalism without anyone noticing, and we are collectively locked into it and any attempts to break out would result in a lot of years of strife (like you can't General Strike without threatening your job, and therefore the life you're eeking out just above the poverty line)...so I'm not sure what happens.

Look at us here in Canada Abyss. Rich evil fuckers like Galen Weston Jr. not only have us by the collective balls, but they MOCK us by releasing pandering Bullshit "price freeze" ads to try to keep everyone from freaking out. He's Lex Luthor without the charm. The more we let people like there Weston's OWN us, the worse it will get. They are not going to relax their profit margin quietly. They know people need food and The Westons and Empire Foods own EVERY grocery store but Metro and Food Basics. Two monopolies exist in Canada for FOOD....it's more mental than our telecom situation.

I shop for most of my produce at small Asian grocers [minus T&T who are owned by the Westons] now since they have not been gouging, but shopping for regular ass shit (non-produce stuff)...has become insane. A single pack of hot dogs (which let's make sure we know is a shit JUNK food with very little nutritional value) is now cresting $9. NINE FUCKING DOLLARS FOR HOT DOGS.

The French Revolution boiled over from rotten food. We ain't far.

You're not wrong about the Westons as a force in food, but alternatives still exist (at least in Ontario on top of Metro and Basics there's Farm Boy/Sobeys, Dominion, Freshmart, Walmart, Whole Foods) and even two monopolies isn't a monopoly, it's competition, albeit limited competition (and ripe for price fixing, but we do have some protections against that... i know, i know, but they exist even so and they work to an extent). I can't speak to specific neighborhood/community/transport situations where alternatives are not options, but at base choice exists even if the price spread for hot dogs is all of a dollar from Walmart to Whole Foods. I'm not suggesting that's good or good enough, but at the end of the day more Canadians than not have some choice about where they shop.

When the pandemic hit and families were stuck at home and the cost of higher power use during prime daytime hours became an issue, the Ontario prov gov froze rates at the lowest cost. The public demand triggered a positive gov reaction. In contrast, Maark's narrative. It's worse. I am stunned they are not rioting.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 03:44 PM, said:

Farm Boy/Sobeys, Dominion, Freshmart, Whole Foods

Sadly...and I just learned this...these are All owned by Empire.

Only Metro and Food Basics are outliers, and Metro is trying to BUY food basics.

It's Bell, Rogers, and Telus all over again.

Walmart is...a different problem.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 October 2022 - 04:46 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2022 - 04:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 03:44 PM, said:

Farm Boy/Sobeys, Dominion, Freshmart, Whole Foods

Walmart is...a different problem.

On the bright side, they have been very forward-thinking (and doing) on killer robots (to make the invasion of Canada even easier...).

[Macros]

If people don't stand up and demand change in the status quo now, nothing will ever change in the UK.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2022 - 04:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 03:44 PM, said:

Farm Boy/Sobeys, Dominion, Freshmart, Whole Foods

Sadly...and I just learned this...these are All owned by Empire.

Only Metro and Food Basics are outliers, and Metro is trying to BUY food basics.

It's Bell, Rogers, and Telus all over again.

Walmart is...a different problem.

All kinds of problems, but it still leaves four entities delivering the service under government oversight/regulation. I will never suggest any of it is ideal, but it's not quite all hail our corporate overlords either.

[amphibian]

Maark Abbott, on 25 October 2022 - 07:51 AM, said:

For us, running a shower for about 5 minutes is 30p on the meter. Running a bowl of hot water to wash the dishes is 13p. So assuming that 30p per 5 minutes of gas used is the average, that's £3.60 per hour. In the winter we would average about six to seven heated hours a day, (more if it was really bitter out) which puts us at £252 a week, and just over £1000 a month.

For context our entire year's bill for FY2021-22 was about £960.

We can't afford heat. We literally can't.

That's deeply painful to read and full body infuriating. I'm sorry and I hope you get the general election super fast to start addressing these unsustainable costs.

Azath is doing this for his own choices rather than dealing with crushing costs like this.

[Maark Abbott]

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 03:44 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2022 - 02:39 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 02:04 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 25 October 2022 - 07:51 AM, said:

... puts us at £252 a week, and just over £1000 a month.

For context our entire year's bill for FY2021-22 was about £960.

We can't afford heat. We literally can't.

The.
Fuck.

How you have not revolted and executed your gov by now i do not understand. They're actively trying to kill you.

Revolutions have been started for less. Capitalism has fucked us ALL into acceptance for so long that it slid into Neo-Feudalism without anyone noticing, and we are collectively locked into it and any attempts to break out would result in a lot of years of strife (like you can't General Strike without threatening your job, and therefore the life you're eeking out just above the poverty line)...so I'm not sure what happens.

Look at us here in Canada Abyss. Rich evil fuckers like Galen Weston Jr. not only have us by the collective balls, but they MOCK us by releasing pandering Bullshit "price freeze" ads to try to keep everyone from freaking out. He's Lex Luthor without the charm. The more we let people like there Weston's OWN us, the worse it will get. They are not going to relax their profit margin quietly. They know people need food and The Westons and Empire Foods own EVERY grocery store but Metro and Food Basics. Two monopolies exist in Canada for FOOD....it's more mental than our telecom situation.

I shop for most of my produce at small Asian grocers [minus T&T who are owned by the Westons] now since they have not been gouging, but shopping for regular ass shit (non-produce stuff)...has become insane. A single pack of hot dogs (which let's make sure we know is a shit JUNK food with very little nutritional value) is now cresting $9. NINE FUCKING DOLLARS FOR HOT DOGS.

The French Revolution boiled over from rotten food. We ain't far.

You're not wrong about the Westons as a force in food, but alternatives still exist (at least in Ontario on top of Metro and Basics there's Farm Boy/Sobeys, Dominion, Freshmart, Walmart, Whole Foods) and even two monopolies isn't a monopoly, it's competition, albeit limited competition (and ripe for price fixing, but we do have some protections against that... i know, i know, but they exist even so and they work to an extent). I can't speak to specific neighborhood/community/transport situations where alternatives are not options, but at base choice exists even if the price spread for hot dogs is all of a dollar from Walmart to Whole Foods. I'm not suggesting that's good or good enough, but at the end of the day more Canadians than not have some choice about where they shop.

When the pandemic hit and families were stuck at home and the cost of higher power use during prime daytime hours became an issue, the Ontario prov gov froze rates at the lowest cost. The public demand triggered a positive gov reaction. In contrast, Maark's narrative. It's worse. I am stunned they are not rioting.

I fully expect riots. Our government criminalised protest (you can now potentially get up to ten years imprisonment for protesting as it 'disturbs the peace'), people were beforehand left with a binary choice between heating and food, but the fact the Tories refuse to reign in private-owned energy (this being because it would demonstrate that Thatcher's privatisation and 'let the markets sort it out' approach is an utter failure, which they ideologically cannot stomach as to a conservative EVERYTHING must be profitable) means a lot of families are now looking at scrimping by and wrapping up in blankets whilst their homes mould over. We have what was once a Boris Box, then a Truss Tub, now the Sunak Shop in the kitchen, a big box filled with long shelf life meals so that if it gets as bad as I expect, we can at least eat half a tin of beans a day.

I would love to say that I'm exaggerating, but I also live in what was (or still is) the most impoverished area in Europe and so people here will probably be hit the hardest - especially now we have a PM whose history shows that he will divert funds from the North and back into already wealthy areas nearer to London.

I would also love to joke that the man from the country of nipple-sucking kings telling us how to properly dispose of bottled goods for maximum effect didn't happen, but yes it's at the stage where passing Irishmen are offering advice on such thing. In Minecraft, of course.

amphibian, on 25 October 2022 - 07:53 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 25 October 2022 - 07:51 AM, said:

For us, running a shower for about 5 minutes is 30p on the meter. Running a bowl of hot water to wash the dishes is 13p. So assuming that 30p per 5 minutes of gas used is the average, that's £3.60 per hour. In the winter we would average about six to seven heated hours a day, (more if it was really bitter out) which puts us at £252 a week, and just over £1000 a month.

For context our entire year's bill for FY2021-22 was about £960.

We can't afford heat. We literally can't.

That's deeply painful to read and full body infuriating. I'm sorry and I hope you get the general election super fast to start addressing these unsustainable costs.

Azath is doing this for his own choices rather than dealing with crushing costs like this.

I don't think a general election will fix things, because the Tories are either in bed with or control most of the media, and despite everything their voter base is still more likely to vote for them than not because they're that deep in the Tory hole. Think Trump voters, they're not far behind.

What really galls me is that we also have wages that have been generally stagnant for YEARS. I work in law (top of my department, deal with all the complex stuff on team) and despite this, my household collectively earns less than £40k a year and I am basically borderline fuel poverty.

Something has to change, and soon. Because if it doesn't, I imagine the first brick will fly when the first child freezes to death in their own bed.

[worry]

It's easy to blame multi-millionaires and billionaires and (coming soon) trillionaires. But have you considered that this might all be the fault of immigrants, trans people, and woke ideology?

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

worry, on 26 October 2022 - 08:37 AM, said:

It's easy to blame multi-millionaires and billionaires and (coming soon) trillionaires. But have you considered that this might all be the fault of immigrants, trans people, and woke ideology?

Ah, you appear to have met our Home Secretary...

I'm so sorry to read that Maark, it's awful.

Can confirm anecdotally Maark will be representative of plenty more people in the UK at the moment. My partner and I are supporting my Mum at the moment - she lives alone, is 65 next month and was supposed to be reducing her hours by a day as she's struggling, but now can't afford to, and she would otherwise be in the situation of never putting her heating on. My oldest friend is a single mother with an 11 year old, is restricted to working within school hours and she's panicking over her bills daily. Another friend isn't on a fixed mortgage rate so the interest rate rise has in her words "eaten every penny of their spare income", and that was prior to winter (for context, they're around a £50k per annum household). To say this is a crisis is a crime of understatement.

This post has been edited by TheRetiredBridgeburner: 26 October 2022 - 09:51 AM

[Maark Abbott]

TheRetiredBridgeburner, on 26 October 2022 - 09:26 AM, said:

worry, on 26 October 2022 - 08:37 AM, said:

It's easy to blame multi-millionaires and billionaires and (coming soon) trillionaires. But have you considered that this might all be the fault of immigrants, trans people, and woke ideology?

Ah, you appear to have met our Home Secretary...

I'm so sorry to read that Maark, it's awful.

Can confirm anecdotally Maark will be representative of plenty more people in the UK at the moment. My partner and I are supporting my Mum at the moment - she lives alone, is 65 next month and was supposed to be reducing her hours by a day as she's struggling, but now can't afford to, and she would otherwise be in the situation of never putting her heating on. My oldest friend is a single mother with an 11 year old, is restricted to working within school hours and she's panicking over her bills daily. Another friend isn't on a fixed mortgage rate so the interest rate rise has in her words "eaten every penny of their spare income", and that was prior to winter (for context, they're around a £50k per annum household). To say this is a crisis is a crime of understatement.

I suppose I'll have to - and you'll know this one - gemisen int big coit.

We'll have to see what happens; but yeah I am prepared for a very bitter cold winter. Oh, and there's talk of rolling blackouts across the country in the deepest part of winter as well, so that will be yet more fun to deal with. Thanks, excessively rich dick sponge Tories!

[QuickTidal]

This sounds like a perfect storm for revolution in the UK. I'm not exaggerating at all. When lives end up on the line in more than scattered cases from these decisions (or lack of good decisions) from your right wing govt...people will start to snap. The centre cannot hold. And in winter people are already grumpier, and angrier in general from the weather...it's gonna be rough.

[Abyss]

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 05:45 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2022 - 04:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 03:44 PM, said:

Farm Boy/Sobeys, Dominion, Freshmart, Whole Foods

Sadly...and I just learned this...these are All owned by Empire.

Only Metro and Food Basics are outliers, and Metro is trying to BUY food basics.

It's Bell, Rogers, and Telus all over again.

Walmart is...a different problem.

All kinds of problems, but it still leaves four entities delivering the service under government oversight/regulation. I will never suggest any of it is ideal, but it's not quite all hail our corporate overlords either.

Interestingly on CBC this morning they did a piece on exactly this, described the Canadian grocery situation as an oligopoly, and said that the competition bureau is investigating the prices situation.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 26 October 2022 - 02:20 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 05:45 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2022 - 04:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 03:44 PM, said:

Farm Boy/Sobeys, Dominion, Freshmart, Whole Foods

Sadly...and I just learned this...these are All owned by Empire.

Only Metro and Food Basics are outliers, and Metro is trying to BUY food basics.

It's Bell, Rogers, and Telus all over again.

Walmart is...a different problem.

All kinds of problems, but it still leaves four entities delivering the service under government oversight/regulation. I will never suggest any of it is ideal, but it's not quite all hail our corporate overlords either.

Interestingly on CBC this morning they did a piece on exactly this, described the Canadian grocery situation as an oligopoly, and said that the competition bureau is investigating the prices situation.

I have NO doubts that Weston and Empire are working together to fix prices. No doubts. Glad it's being investigated.

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2022 - 02:23 PM, said:

Abyss, on 26 October 2022 - 02:20 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 05:45 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 25 October 2022 - 04:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 25 October 2022 - 03:44 PM, said:

Farm Boy/Sobeys, Dominion, Freshmart, Whole Foods

Sadly...and I just learned this...these are All owned by Empire.

Only Metro and Food Basics are outliers, and Metro is trying to BUY food basics.

It's Bell, Rogers, and Telus all over again.

Walmart is...a different problem.

All kinds of problems, but it still leaves four entities delivering the service under government oversight/regulation. I will never suggest any of it is ideal, but it's not quite all hail our corporate overlords either.

Interestingly on CBC this morning they did a piece on exactly this, described the Canadian grocery situation as an oligopoly, and said that the competition bureau is investigating the prices situation.

I have NO doubts that Weston and Empire are working together to fix prices. No doubts. Glad it's being investigated.

An interesting bit was the statement that grocery sector profits were up 200% since 2019, suggesting they were exploiting the pandemic situation, tho vague on exactly how.

[Macros]

RE - the rolling blackouts thing

never read such deliberate utter panic inducing shite in my life as what has been spewed in the British media this last few weeks, and suddenly low and behold, gas prices are tumbling and we are looking at a veritable glut of LNG as we're topped out in storage. For reference currently storage at 95% capacity, have never been above 80% before, we have nigh on 50 tankers queueing up to dump LNG into Europe, literally can't regassify it quick enough, and if we could we don't have room for it.

its almost as if some people knew the prices would come down and spurred countries into a buying frenzy to fill the tanks when the price was high.....

too cynical?

[Maark Abbott]

QuickTidal, on 26 October 2022 - 12:14 PM, said:

This sounds like a perfect storm for revolution in the UK. I'm not exaggerating at all. When lives end up on the line in more than scattered cases from these decisions (or lack of good decisions) from your right wing govt...people will start to snap. The centre cannot hold. And in winter people are already grumpier, and angrier in general from the weather...it's gonna be rough.

I sure hope so. That said, people here apparently like getting stepped on (and not in the good way) enough that I worry that nothing meaningful will change.

Macros, on 26 October 2022 - 04:35 PM, said:

RE - the rolling blackouts thing

never read such deliberate utter panic inducing shite in my life as what has been spewed in the British media this last few weeks, and suddenly low and behold, gas prices are tumbling and we are looking at a veritable glut of LNG as we're topped out in storage. For reference currently storage at 95% capacity, have never been above 80% before, we have nigh on 50 tankers queueing up to dump LNG into Europe, literally can't regassify it quick enough, and if we could we don't have room for it.

its almost as if some people knew the prices would come down and spurred countries into a buying frenzy to fill the tanks when the price was high.....

too cynical?

I was under the impression that the UK had closed down most of its gas storage - but you're the man who does pipes so... let's hope you're right, Mario.

[Maark Abbott]

Oh and to top things off, the Elgato SD60S that I got second hand is busted so I gotta get a refund on that.

[champ]

Provided up to date meter readings to my energy company... I am currently £400 in credit and yet they insist on putting up my direct debit... seriously WTF! Shows how messed up shit is currently.

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

champ, on 27 October 2022 - 01:24 PM, said:

Provided up to date meter readings to my energy company... I am currently £400 in credit and yet they insist on putting up my direct debit... seriously WTF! Shows how messed up shit is currently.

Happened to me too. I moved out of my flat earlier in the year into partner's house, and it's at the business end of being sold now. The place is empty, no energy being used beyond keeping the fridge on, hundreds of pounds in credit and they've still upped the direct debit twice.

[Cyphon]

They'll up it now based on modelling of previous usage and now increased costs. They should model that based on you not going into deficut over the period. So with winter coming and the impact of price increases its not surprising your currently in surplus and having direct debit increases. It should balance out in the end, even if it is costing more.