[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Storms bringing Arctic and Antarctic air and extreme cold expected across most of the United States---even down to the Gulf of Mexico and Florida (well, relatively extreme) just as people are traveling and celebrating---keeping people indoors to infect each other (with delayed and canceled flights almost certainly stuffing airports with even more people...). Coldest Xmas weekend in 30 years locally. Managed to get in holiday celebration with my elderly relatives yesterday (wore a P100 mask whenever inside, except when in the garage with the garage door having been open for a while---ate out in the cold garage, but it wasn't nearly as cold as it will get...)---the surge will be even worse than (previously) expected... spreading XBB.1.5 all across the country.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 22 December 2022 - 03:11 PM

[Mezla PigDog]

Maark Abbott, on 22 December 2022 - 08:50 AM, said:

So I don't know if I posted this before but the last four weeks or so have been hellish.


Wife was working for a care company who housed someone unsuitable in their service, he kept attacking staff (assaults, hitting, headlocks etc) and she got targeted a few times. Ended with her workplace basically saying 'not our fault if you hurt yourself at work'.

Add that onto financial pressures and unimaginable stress levels due to the hours she was putting in for the care company and she ended up going into stress induced psychosis. She was taken to a psychiatric hospital in Wakefield on Friday 9th. She's doing better now but I am facing a Christmas without her, her birthday is in two days and she'll be in hospital for that. I've also had to make being a single income household work for now, which has been... enlightening. It sounds like she had a medication conflict which was causing problems too, so I'm hopeful things are on the up, but we will have to see how we go.

Hey Maark, I'm sure this isn't particularly helpful but I know when severe mental health problems strike, it can be the first time you hear of it because people don't talk. I know 2 people who have suffered from psychosis. Mr PigDogs mum was hospitalized with severe stress following a run of minor illnesses. She needed time on a vitamin K drip and anti-anxiety medication and has had one relapse in about 5 years but it was small the second time as we knew what was happening. The other a young woman with a husband and 2 small kids who got overwhelmed during the 2021 lockdowns. It was out of the blue and their family had a really tough 3 or 4 months but she came through and hasn't had any issues since. Changes they made because of it have made their family life better.

So people go through this and come out the other side. But I know that the days leading up to the diagnosis of psychosis can be batshit insane. It takes a while for loved ones to cotton on that the person is seeing the world in a totally different way. It's like everything has to turn upside down first before help can be found. So be kind to yourself - however you are feeling about it at any one moment. You will need to recover from the shock of it as well as be there for the next bits.

I hope everyone else is ok too.

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 23 December 2022 - 07:40 AM

[Maark Abbott]

Thanks Mez, I'm doing my best to be levelheaded about everything. In terms of treatment my relationship with the hospital is collaborative - I am a layman, they are the experts, so my stance is that I am on call for assistance should they need it of me, otherwise if I call for an update I am accepting what's being presented me because there's no point trying to insert my views into what should happen right now. That's what they've trained for and what they specialise in.

She had to go to Pinderfields yesterday as the antipsychotic caused a very big spike in blood creatine levels. No calls in the night so I assume the treatment there went well, but still another worry. More than anything else, I miss her. We have at least spoken on the phone once and she seemed a heck of a lot better, so I'm hoping that rest and treatment will bring her around again and from there we can work on getting her back into a normal, comfortable life again.

I need to ask the psychs about whetehr I might need deputyship, but I'll deal with that in the first MDT meeting of the new year as it'd mean going before a Judge to request that the Court grant me that power for a temporary duration. If I don't need to I would rather not, but there's some stuff I need access to so that she doesn't come out and instantly into debts, arrears etc. She at least left me with access to her accounts so I am able to monitor them and drip feed / make payments from my account to cover stuff as needed, so it's not all bad.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

amphibian, on 19 December 2022 - 06:31 PM, said:

I think we're not going to have productive discussion of this due to your being a tankie for the non-existent AI singularity, so I'm going to drop it.

Pit professor, indie comic artist, and art school graduate Christopher Maverick co-hosts a pretty good discussion in this podcast:

https://voxpopcast.c...your-art-daddy/

(discussion of the ethics of AI art starts around 1:58 in)

[Maark Abbott]

AI doesn't make art. It takes existing art and then frankensteins it together. Taking a prawn linguine and a beef lasagne and putting them on a machine that smashes them together into one dish doesn't make you a chef.

[Lady Bliss]

Maark Abbott, on 23 December 2022 - 08:52 AM, said:

Thanks Mez, I'm doing my best to be levelheaded about everything. In terms of treatment my relationship with the hospital is collaborative - I am a layman, they are the experts, so my stance is that I am on call for assistance should they need it of me, otherwise if I call for an update I am accepting what's being presented me because there's no point trying to insert my views into what should happen right now. That's what they've trained for and what they specialise in.

She had to go to Pinderfields yesterday as the antipsychotic caused a very big spike in blood creatine levels. No calls in the night so I assume the treatment there went well, but still another worry. More than anything else, I miss her. We have at least spoken on the phone once and she seemed a heck of a lot better, so I'm hoping that rest and treatment will bring her around again and from there we can work on getting her back into a normal, comfortable life again.

I need to ask the psychs about whetehr I might need deputyship, but I'll deal with that in the first MDT meeting of the new year as it'd mean going before a Judge to request that the Court grant me that power for a temporary duration. If I don't need to I would rather not, but there's some stuff I need access to so that she doesn't come out and instantly into debts, arrears etc. She at least left me with access to her accounts so I am able to monitor them and drip feed / make payments from my account to cover stuff as needed, so it's not all bad.

Maark, I know this is an awful time of year to go through this, but you are doing all the right things. I have seen these situations work out and I hope she gets to feeling better soon. My thoughts are with you.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Maark Abbott, on 23 December 2022 - 02:29 PM, said:

AI doesn't make art. It takes existing art and then frankensteins it together. Taking a prawn linguine and a beef lasagne and putting them on a machine that smashes them together into one dish doesn't make you a chef.

That's not how these AI art generators work. Unfortunately there's been a large amount of misinformation circulating. As explained by the professor in the podcast:

'we need to understand how [these] AIs work.

The most popular of the memes that went around [... claims] that it's not real art because what's happened is somebody has taken all the pictures on the internet, put them in a database, and then is just cutting them up and making your picture. [...] That's not what the computer's doing.'

Here's a good explanation by Vox of what it's actually doing:




Essentially, the neural network is learning underlying patterns in order to construct a space of possibilities (the latent space) to generate original images. It may combine different artistic styles or genres, but it is not collaging together pieces of existing artworks.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 23 December 2022 - 03:47 PM

[Slow Ben]

worry, on 22 December 2022 - 09:23 AM, said:

Man this is an extremely rough page. I don't have the right words for any of it, I just wish the best outcome for all of you.

Same everybody. Dang.


On a lighter groove…..

It’s fucking cold outside. Temp is below 0. Windchill is -30ish. That’s -34-35ish to the rest of the board.

[Maark Abbott]

Images so original that people can very straightforwardly say "hey this image was used as a base for that piece".

[Maark Abbott]

Lady Bliss, on 23 December 2022 - 03:01 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 December 2022 - 08:52 AM, said:

Thanks Mez, I'm doing my best to be levelheaded about everything. In terms of treatment my relationship with the hospital is collaborative - I am a layman, they are the experts, so my stance is that I am on call for assistance should they need it of me, otherwise if I call for an update I am accepting what's being presented me because there's no point trying to insert my views into what should happen right now. That's what they've trained for and what they specialise in.

She had to go to Pinderfields yesterday as the antipsychotic caused a very big spike in blood creatine levels. No calls in the night so I assume the treatment there went well, but still another worry. More than anything else, I miss her. We have at least spoken on the phone once and she seemed a heck of a lot better, so I'm hoping that rest and treatment will bring her around again and from there we can work on getting her back into a normal, comfortable life again.

I need to ask the psychs about whetehr I might need deputyship, but I'll deal with that in the first MDT meeting of the new year as it'd mean going before a Judge to request that the Court grant me that power for a temporary duration. If I don't need to I would rather not, but there's some stuff I need access to so that she doesn't come out and instantly into debts, arrears etc. She at least left me with access to her accounts so I am able to monitor them and drip feed / make payments from my account to cover stuff as needed, so it's not all bad.

Maark, I know this is an awful time of year to go through this, but you are doing all the right things. I have seen these situations work out and I hope she gets to feeling better soon. My thoughts are with you.

Thanks - it's the hardest thing I've ever dealt with, to be fair. Harder than when my stepdad passed and I was given eight hours' notice that it was happening, harder than when my stepmum passed after a fourteen month decline. To see someone you care about so deeply warp and twist into someone that they aren't in the space of days... But it's done, she doesn't remember much of it, so my focus now is on keeping things stable here. Days like today are wobbles for me, being so close to her birthday, but I'll weather the storm.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Maark Abbott, on 23 December 2022 - 03:51 PM, said:

Images so original that people can very straightforwardly say "hey this image was used as a base for that piece".

In the vast majority of cases that doesn't happen, but it is an issue with some of the AI art generators---particularly Stable Diffusion, which 'copies'---not as exact copies, but in the sense of recognizable excessive similarity---at least 1.88% of the time, according to one study:

2212.03860.pdf (arxiv.org)

But: 'Data replication in generative models is not inevitable; previous studies of GANs have not found it, and our study of ImageNet LDM did not find any evidence of significant data replication.'

As I explained before, it generally only happens if a particular image occurs a very large number of times in the training set.

It's also important to remember that with conventional figuration in many cases there are many similar images, poses, compositional techniques etc. that have been used by many artists over the decades and centuries.

[Maark Abbott]

Giveit a few years and watch it go the way of NFTs. We can hope, at least.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Azath Vitr (D, on 23 December 2022 - 04:08 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 December 2022 - 03:51 PM, said:

Images so original that people can very straightforwardly say "hey this image was used as a base for that piece".

In the vast majority of cases that doesn't happen, but it is an issue with some of the AI art generators---particularly Stable Diffusion, which 'copies'---not as exact copies, but in the sense of recognizable excessive similarity---at least 1.88% of the time, according to one study:

2212.03860.pdf (arxiv.org)

But: 'Data replication in generative models is not inevitable; previous studies of GANs have not found it, and our study of ImageNet LDM did not find any evidence of significant data replication.'

As I explained before, it generally only happens if a particular image occurs a very large number of times in the training set.

It's also important to remember that with conventional figuration in many cases there are many similar images, poses, compositional techniques etc. that have been used by many artists over the decades and centuries.

To put it more accurately: it happened in some part of the image (sometimes a very small one) for at least about 1.88% of the generations in response to the text prompts they entered in the study. It's most likely to happen when a particular image occurs with a particular combination of keywords an extremely large number of times, and few other images occur in conjunction with that combination of keywords. The images tend to be very famous, and frequently public domain. But it's a fixable issue.

AI art can be wonderfully weird and hilarious; by trying to understand aesthetic patterns while not being mentally limited by physics or certain other forms of conventional understanding (for example, that humans generally have five fingers), it can create images that few (if any) humans artists might have imagined. But it can also allow far more people to roughly translate creative ideas, or combinations of ideas and styles, into visually stunning artwork.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 23 December 2022 - 05:23 PM

[amphibian]

Maark Abbott, on 23 December 2022 - 08:52 AM, said:

Thanks Mez, I'm doing my best to be levelheaded about everything. In terms of treatment my relationship with the hospital is collaborative - I am a layman, they are the experts, so my stance is that I am on call for assistance should they need it of me, otherwise if I call for an update I am accepting what's being presented me because there's no point trying to insert my views into what should happen right now. That's what they've trained for and what they specialise in.

She had to go to Pinderfields yesterday as the antipsychotic caused a very big spike in blood creatine levels. No calls in the night so I assume the treatment there went well, but still another worry. More than anything else, I miss her. We have at least spoken on the phone once and she seemed a heck of a lot better, so I'm hoping that rest and treatment will bring her around again and from there we can work on getting her back into a normal, comfortable life again.

I need to ask the psychs about whetehr I might need deputyship, but I'll deal with that in the first MDT meeting of the new year as it'd mean going before a Judge to request that the Court grant me that power for a temporary duration. If I don't need to I would rather not, but there's some stuff I need access to so that she doesn't come out and instantly into debts, arrears etc. She at least left me with access to her accounts so I am able to monitor them and drip feed / make payments from my account to cover stuff as needed, so it's not all bad.

This is majorly hard. I'm sorry you both have to go through it mostly separately.

One thing I do recommend is writing down "what medications she is taking in what amounts, which doctor/nurse prescribed what, which people she's seeing for which issue" and then tracking changes to that. Sometimes that helps catch issues that develop due to incomplete coordination and sometimes it helps slow down the anxiousness of waiting by being a task that can be completed.

Best of luck to you and her in terms of recovery and getting through the next months without sinking.

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Headache, fever, nausea... I might have covid; and it might be attacking my brain. No significant respiratory symptoms though, so perhaps it's more likely something else....

[Chance]

Well having another four hour and some minutes to work before probably getting home some time tomorrow and there still is a shit ton of stuff I need to do for the holidays and the week after.

This post has been edited by Chance: 23 December 2022 - 06:34 PM

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Now I've got an ulcer in my mouth too... which is also a possible symptom of covid (among many other things...).

Wonder if this fever will be any help against the extreme cold outside. Weather forecast is 'Bitterly cold'....

[Mezla PigDog]

On the lighter scale of groove messing. Anyone with family members who liberally share photos of family gatherings on Facebook that you feel don't really represent your social circles? Well if you are FB friends with me, take a look at the latest I am tagged in!! Neices in their 20-somethings with lip fillers is about the least of it 🤣

Edit to add - UK news is sounding like the US is experiencing Day After Tomorrow Weather! Are you all ok?!

This post has been edited by Mezla PigDog: 25 December 2022 - 08:05 PM

[Tsundoku]

Mezla PigDog, on 25 December 2022 - 08:04 PM, said:

On the lighter scale of groove messing. Anyone with family members who liberally share photos of family gatherings on Facebook that you feel don't really represent your social circles? Well if you are FB friends with me, take a look at the latest I am tagged in!! Neices in their 20-somethings with lip fillers is about the least of it 🤣

Ah come on Mez, please share some of the better ones with those of us who don't have the book of faces, puh-lease! Spirit of giving blah blah blah ...

Also yeah, could the guys living in the affected areas please check in? Could those of us who are FB/other social media mates with them ping them please?

[Maark Abbott]

amphibian, on 23 December 2022 - 05:29 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 23 December 2022 - 08:52 AM, said:

Thanks Mez, I'm doing my best to be levelheaded about everything. In terms of treatment my relationship with the hospital is collaborative - I am a layman, they are the experts, so my stance is that I am on call for assistance should they need it of me, otherwise if I call for an update I am accepting what's being presented me because there's no point trying to insert my views into what should happen right now. That's what they've trained for and what they specialise in.

She had to go to Pinderfields yesterday as the antipsychotic caused a very big spike in blood creatine levels. No calls in the night so I assume the treatment there went well, but still another worry. More than anything else, I miss her. We have at least spoken on the phone once and she seemed a heck of a lot better, so I'm hoping that rest and treatment will bring her around again and from there we can work on getting her back into a normal, comfortable life again.

I need to ask the psychs about whetehr I might need deputyship, but I'll deal with that in the first MDT meeting of the new year as it'd mean going before a Judge to request that the Court grant me that power for a temporary duration. If I don't need to I would rather not, but there's some stuff I need access to so that she doesn't come out and instantly into debts, arrears etc. She at least left me with access to her accounts so I am able to monitor them and drip feed / make payments from my account to cover stuff as needed, so it's not all bad.

This is majorly hard. I'm sorry you both have to go through it mostly separately.

One thing I do recommend is writing down "what medications she is taking in what amounts, which doctor/nurse prescribed what, which people she's seeing for which issue" and then tracking changes to that. Sometimes that helps catch issues that develop due to incomplete coordination and sometimes it helps slow down the anxiousness of waiting by being a task that can be completed.

Best of luck to you and her in terms of recovery and getting through the next months without sinking.

At this point our best guess is that her anti-depressants conflicted - she was on max dose of amitriptyline and cirtraline at the same time - plus omeprazole to deal with indigestion. The two anti-depressants were causing her horrendous pins and needles that manifested as physical pain, so we also think her blood creatinine was spiking high for a good while. Saw her 24th-26th for a few hours each day and she's doing good to my view - got a meeting with consultants later to discuss that in more depth and detail though. She's chebbing to get back to work, which is obviously a good sign.