Malazan Empire: What's messing with your groove? - Malazan Empire

Jump to content

  • 1521 Pages +
  • « First
  • 1464
  • 1465
  • 1466
  • 1467
  • 1468
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

What's messing with your groove?

#29301 User is offline   Lady Bliss 

  • Shameless Minister of Silly Catwalks of the Abyssmal Army
  • Group: The Abyssmal Army
  • Posts: 477
  • Joined: 08-December 11
  • Location:New York

Posted 13 December 2022 - 08:57 PM

View PostAzath Vitr (D, on 13 December 2022 - 08:27 PM, said:

Was planning to do in-person Xmas a week before the holiday travel surges to avoid the tridemic (but especially the risk of long covid)---since it falls on a Sunday this year I'm not sure exactly when people who get a week off will start getting off, or when they'll start traveling, so I was going to do it sometime this week---but now my elderly father has come down with something (trying to get him to take a covid test will probably be difficult...). He got the bivalent booster and a flu shot a few weeks ago so he should be decently protected against severe disease I hope (IDK about RSV but I don't recall reading anything about it killing large numbers of elderly people). Window for visiting before the Xmas surge (we come bearing gifts!) is tightening, especially if my elderly mother starts showing symptoms more than a day after his symptoms started. Hopefully my P100 mask fits well---I have to be vigilant about the fit though. Since maintenance could come in at any time (they said they'd return to fix the crack in my ceiling and finish scrubbing away the dead black mold almost a month ago, never returned---guess they infer from my P100 mask that I'd prefer it if they didn't (which is true)) I have my mask nearby at all times and put on my mask on before doing anything that requires one of my hands, like urinating (without errant spraying)---and just today I noticed I could feel airflow against my eyelid coming up from edges of the mask... I'd let it get too loose. After tightening I felt no air flow anywhere, thankfully. (I have three P100 masks I rotate between; but I'll be sure to tighten the others as well before exposure.)

I think you would be ok. You are covered on covid and flu, and as a parent I’ve never heard about much risk with rsv to anyone but small children.
"If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?" - Shylock
0

#29302 User is offline   TheRetiredBridgeburner 

  • House Knight
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,509
  • Joined: 28-March 13
  • Location:Deepest Darkest Yorkshire

Posted 14 December 2022 - 01:50 PM

Accidentally caught a report on an elderly man calling LBC radio here in the UK saying he had been stuck in his house for nine days with the flu and couldn't afford to heat it, and broke down in tears saying he was going to freeze to death in his home. The video started playing before I could scroll on the article so I heard most of the call, and it was heartbreaking.

I understand the radio host made some calls and the gentleman's MP has since updated saying he has food and electricity and his team was working on further support, and I'm glad there was a positive outcome - but the fact we've reached that point in supposedly the fifth largest world economy just makes me indescribably angry. How many more people are like that who haven't gotten through to a radio station?
- Wyrd bið ful aræd -
0

#29303 User is offline   Macros 

  • D'ivers Fuckwits
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 8,832
  • Joined: 28-January 08
  • Location:Ulster, disputed zone, British Empire.

Posted 15 December 2022 - 11:13 AM

Working away from home at the minute woke up to a message from my wife regarding our friend who was in the bad car crash in SA

Declared brain dead this morning, family are saying goodbye and they're turning off the support today

Fuck a duck
0

#29304 User is offline   TheRetiredBridgeburner 

  • House Knight
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 1,509
  • Joined: 28-March 13
  • Location:Deepest Darkest Yorkshire

Posted 15 December 2022 - 11:23 AM

View PostMacros, on 15 December 2022 - 11:13 AM, said:

Working away from home at the minute woke up to a message from my wife regarding our friend who was in the bad car crash in SA

Declared brain dead this morning, family are saying goodbye and they're turning off the support today

Fuck a duck


I'm so sorry, that's awful.
- Wyrd bið ful aræd -
0

#29305 User is offline   Lady Bliss 

  • Shameless Minister of Silly Catwalks of the Abyssmal Army
  • Group: The Abyssmal Army
  • Posts: 477
  • Joined: 08-December 11
  • Location:New York

Posted 15 December 2022 - 11:25 AM

So sorry Mac. That is terrible news.
"If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?" - Shylock
0

#29306 User is offline   worry 

  • Master of the Deck
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 14,563
  • Joined: 24-February 10
  • Location:the buried west

Posted 15 December 2022 - 11:53 AM

Very sad, sorry for your loss and everyone who loved him.
They came with white hands and left with red hands.
0

#29307 User is offline   Slow Ben 

  • Ranger
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,687
  • Joined: 29-September 08
  • Location:Southern Illinois

Posted 15 December 2022 - 01:16 PM

Well that sucks. Sorry Mac.
I've always been crazy but its kept me from going insane.
0

#29308 User is offline   QuickTidal 

  • Frog
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 21,339
  • Joined: 05-November 05
  • Location:Nowhere Specific
  • Interests:Nothing, just sitting. Quietly.

Posted 15 December 2022 - 01:41 PM

View PostMacros, on 15 December 2022 - 11:13 AM, said:

Working away from home at the minute woke up to a message from my wife regarding our friend who was in the bad car crash in SA

Declared brain dead this morning, family are saying goodbye and they're turning off the support today

Fuck a duck


Jeezus Mac, I'm so sorry to hear this. Please express our deepest sympathies. What a tragic situation and loss.
"When the last tree has fallen, and the rivers are poisoned, you cannot eat money, oh no." ~Aurora

“Someone will always try to sell you despair, just so they don't feel alone.” ~Ursula Vernon
0

#29309 User is offline   champ 

  • Omnipotent Overseer of the Universe
  • Group: Team Quick Ben
  • Posts: 2,473
  • Joined: 21-October 09
  • Location:Newcastle, UK

Posted 15 December 2022 - 03:52 PM

Sorry, Mac. That is horrific, it's a cruel world sometimes.

Tehol said:

'Yet my heart breaks for a naked hen.'
0

#29310 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

  • Faith, Heavy Metal & Bacon
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 11,955
  • Joined: 08-October 04
  • Location:T'North

Posted 15 December 2022 - 11:19 PM

Oh Mac that's terrible I'm so sorry for you and your wife. Here if you need me.
A Haunting Poem
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
0

#29311 User is offline   Lady Bliss 

  • Shameless Minister of Silly Catwalks of the Abyssmal Army
  • Group: The Abyssmal Army
  • Posts: 477
  • Joined: 08-December 11
  • Location:New York

Posted 16 December 2022 - 08:54 AM

I’ve been on a liquid diet for over 2 weeks and started dreaming about pizza etc. LOL…. The brain and tastebuds really just want a sandwich. :-)
"If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?" - Shylock
0

#29312 User is offline   Tapper 

  • Lover of High House Mafia
  • Group: High House Mafia
  • Posts: 6,646
  • Joined: 29-June 04
  • Location:Delft, Holland.

Posted 16 December 2022 - 09:40 AM

View PostMacros, on 15 December 2022 - 11:13 AM, said:

Working away from home at the minute woke up to a message from my wife regarding our friend who was in the bad car crash in SA

Declared brain dead this morning, family are saying goodbye and they're turning off the support today

Fuck a duck

Sorry to hear this, Mac.
Everyone is entitled to his own wrong opinion. - Lizrad
0

#29313 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,030
  • Joined: 07-February 16

Posted 16 December 2022 - 09:11 PM

The AI Art Universe Facebook group I've been posting images from over in

Awesome / Weird / Funny Arse pics v 2.0 (NSFW) - Malazan Empire

got overrun by angry anti-AI mobs. Even after 'AI ethics' posts were banned, they kept 'flooding the zone with ((mostly) ignorant bigoted) shit' too frequently for the (all too human) mods to keep up. So now they're apparently going to shut the group down.

Not sure if the image links will stop working after the group shuts down....

Ffs. Smh....
0

#29314 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

  • Faith, Heavy Metal & Bacon
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 11,955
  • Joined: 08-October 04
  • Location:T'North

Posted 16 December 2022 - 09:55 PM

That's because ai art is literally taking money away from actual artists. I'm glad the group has been shut.
A Haunting Poem
I Scream
You Scream
We all Scream
For I Scream.
0

#29315 User is offline   Tsundoku 

  • A what?
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 4,629
  • Joined: 06-January 03
  • Location:Maison de merde

Posted 17 December 2022 - 12:07 AM

Yeah, too late for that. The genie is already out of the bottle.
"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

"Well well well ... if it ain't The Invisible C**t." - Billy Butcher, The Boys

"I have strong views about not tempting providence and, as a wise man once said, the difference between luck and a wheelbarrow is, luck doesn’t work if you push it." - Colonel Orhan, Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City - KJ Parker
0

#29316 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,030
  • Joined: 07-February 16

Posted 17 December 2022 - 11:33 AM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 16 December 2022 - 09:55 PM, said:

That's because ai art is literally taking money away from actual artists. I'm glad the group has been shut.



I'm pretty sure the art being posted in that Facebook group wasn't taking anybody's job.

Purely AI generated art is not copyrightable in the United States, Germany, France, Canada, Australia... there is a small third-world nation called the 'You Kay' that is an exception (though it's not too difficult to block legally authorized distribution to the UK, even on much of the internet (region restrictions, or 'by clicking on this you certify that you are not in the UK' or something)); the Basilisk should thank you for your service.

With the exception of those catering exclusively to UK audiences, most businesses are going to want copyright and trademark control.

Getting good results without bizarre otherworldly artifacts and inconsistencies still usually takes a lot of time and effort, especially if you have a very specific result in mind (trying many different prompts, revising them, rerolling, iterating the best results, etc.). Being able to draw is still a valuable skill for fixing the images, or for providing initial references. Using tools like Photoshop to combine parts of different images is extremely useful.

At present it's more of a productivity tool for artists (or people willing to put in massive amounts of time...).

Granted, that may change in the near future. And the copyright issues could be resolved by giving users more control over editing the outputs---which would also make it easier to get a specific image. But ultimately this gives more people the power to create images, and it's a good thing. Artists who already have extensive experience creating visual images will still have a major advantage, if they're willing to adapt.

The artists I've seen complaining about it make extremely derivative conventional art that they generally learned to do by imitating other artists. Machine learning works particularly well on those styles---as well as on photorealism---because so many stylistically similar works have been produced. If they don't want to be outdone by machine learning, they should try to be more original.

#TeamSkynet
0

#29317 User is offline   Abyss 

  • abyssus abyssum invocat
  • Group: Administrators
  • Posts: 21,780
  • Joined: 22-May 03
  • Location:The call is coming from inside the house!!!!
  • Interests:Interesting.

Posted 17 December 2022 - 05:11 PM

There is so much wrong in that take im going to skip arguing and just leave you there in your wrongitude, basted in wrongsauce, somehere in your alt-wrong universe, planet wrong, city of wrongville, in your little wrong house on wrongstreet, population: wrong.
THIS IS YOUR REMINDER THAT THERE IS A
'VIEW NEW CONTENT' BUTTON THAT
ALLOWS YOU TO VIEW NEW CONTENT
0

#29318 User is offline   amphibian 

  • Ribbit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 7,947
  • Joined: 28-September 06
  • Location:Upstate NY
  • Interests:Hopping around

Posted 17 December 2022 - 06:15 PM

The training of the AIs requires the usage of the works of real artists alive today - almost all of whom didn't agree to be used and/or aren't getting paid. (They aren't really using commons arts or long long dead artists with no copyright)

So while the hype trains are something I am ignoring, the base levels of these aren't being built in ways that are ethical. Starting these off by stealing is pretty bad and the artists who find out their work is being stolen are pretty hurt by the whole process.

So I am avoiding their use and I think at the very best, the AI arts are a sort of "use to give real artists rough concepts to build from" rather than something capable of final product themselves. AI is a mirage mostly.
I survived the Permian and all I got was this t-shirt.
0

#29319 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

  • Ascendant
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 3,030
  • Joined: 07-February 16

Posted 17 December 2022 - 07:42 PM

View Postamphibian, on 17 December 2022 - 06:15 PM, said:

The training of the AIs requires the usage of the works of real artists alive today - almost all of whom didn't agree to be used and/or aren't getting paid. (They aren't really using commons arts or long long dead artists with no copyright)

So while the hype trains are something I am ignoring, the base levels of these aren't being built in ways that are ethical. Starting these off by stealing is pretty bad and the artists who find out their work is being stolen are pretty hurt by the whole process.

So I am avoiding their use and I think at the very best, the AI arts are a sort of "use to give real artists rough concepts to build from" rather than something capable of final product themselves. AI is a mirage mostly.


Learning is not stealing. Neither is imitating an artist's general style (which is not copyrightable). If it were, all the artists I've seen complaining about this would probably be guilty.

The training set does effectively include all public domain works of art, though they do make up a small percentage of it. The AI can produce paintings in historical styles (provided it's been given enough examples). For example, Darth Vader by Vermeer:

Posted Image

Here's a very good one in the style of Rembrandt:

Fat man in the style of Rembrandt | Midjourney AI | John Phantasm | Flickr

Also, the images were all not only publicly available on the internet (the database only stored links, and the neural networks learned directy from the hosts); they were all on sites which explicitly permitted web scraping with their robots.txt file. (Of course many artists didn't know what they were doing when they uploaded images, and many undoubtedly had images uploaded without their consent. But again, learning is not stealing. Artists generally don't seek 'consent' before learning from what they see---or imitating it over and over (which is much of traditional art school---and traditional figurative art, and much of conventional commercial art).)


'The Diffusion Model used by these apps turns random noise into the unique images that it generates. The training set data doesn't even enter directly into the generation process. That would be absurdly resource intensive. By the time it's ready to generate anything, it has already been trained. Certain biases are encoded thereby, and then they are activated, iterated and mixed in virtually limitless ways when reacting to the prompt. When trained on sets consisting of billions of images to build these biases, it learns that certain types of images have signatures, and so it will then itself generate a nonsense likeness of a signature when it seems appropriate to the prompt. It's kind of a "monkey see, monkey do" scenario. The adage about infinite monkeys typing also somewhat applies, although they are of course not truly infinite.

[...] In regard to uncurated training sets themselves, this issue is likely to be short-lived, as while small VC funded operations, open source projects, or research labs like MidJourney may not have the resources to curate enormous training datasets as well as we might like, we can expect Adobe or other larger corporations will, and will want to avoid uncurated sets at all costs. Their reasons likely have little to do with the rights of artists.

[...] If the internet itself is any indication, the ills of the uncurated, unmoderated, anything goes early days, bad as they can be, tend to pale in comparison to the mass-market rollout that follows.

Looking ahead to the coming years, I worry as much about the untested risks of, as one example, litigating ownership of something so vague as a "style", as I do about the bulk use of images to train visualization apps. Having lived through the copyright/Napster wars and the DMCA, my concern is that the brute force of the law will struggle to do anything other than create a chilling effect, and larger corporations may very well leverage well-intentioned if misguided public dissent towards codifying the laws in their interest. This may be a Pandora's Box we later regret opening.

As an artist I find my use of MidJourney for comping roughs to be about as morally conflicted as my use of a Cintiq (ordered off Amazon no less), or Photoshop, or most of the other things we do in our daily lives.'

Arts and AI: Being Authentic to Intent

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 17 December 2022 - 07:43 PM

0

#29320 User is offline   amphibian 

  • Ribbit
  • Group: Malaz Regular
  • Posts: 7,947
  • Joined: 28-September 06
  • Location:Upstate NY
  • Interests:Hopping around

Posted 17 December 2022 - 08:00 PM

The learning by AI is stealing, especially with the monetization of what the product is at the end.

That's where we fundamentally disagree.
I survived the Permian and all I got was this t-shirt.
0

Share this topic:


  • 1521 Pages +
  • « First
  • 1464
  • 1465
  • 1466
  • 1467
  • 1468
  • Last »
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

4 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 4 guests, 0 anonymous users