[Tiste Simeon]

Puck, on 23 November 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 22 November 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

I AM MAARK AND NONE MUST HAVE A DIVERGENT OPINION

Right back at you. As someone who doesn't like Sanderson's paper scratchings it is impossible for me to say so anywhere without getting shouted at in exactly this manner just for stating my opinion. Note: opinion, not 'no one is allowed to like that stuff EVAR'. Plottwist: it's possible to dislike something popular, and people screaming 'muuh, you're not allowing anyone to have a different opinion!!!1' when it's the majority against one is rather... dare I say hypocritical?


Nothing personal, though, this attitude's just been messing with my groove for a while.

I wasn't suggesting you're not allowed to dislike things that are popular (see: my music taste for further reference) also I can't possibly comment as I haven't actually read the books that are being discussed.

I'm more railing against Maark slamming anyone who likes something he doesn't.

I for example dislike Bakker. I have been vocal about it. I have even teased/been teased in return in the other literature forum. Banter etc. But it's fine cos we laugh about it. Maark was being more (imo) "you're an idiot if you like these things." He is like that in the FB group too (though I dunno if he is in that any more...) That's what I was taking against. Not that he dislikes something popular.

That's how it seemed to me anyway.

[worry]

Tiste Simeon, on 26 November 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

I can't possibly comment as I haven't actually read the books that are being discussed.

Now you've got ME steamed! What kind of position is this?!

You think I've ever read Radiance of Things or whatever it's called? No of course not. Did that stop me from making fun of Oatbreaker?! Not on your life.

Mods, I am formally registering Tiste's post as a personal attack.

[Gust Hubb]

Naw. This civil war will weed out the weak ones

[nicetrout]

I have only now just found this thread. It is a wonderful gem of the internet.

[Abyss]

BURN THE HERETIC!!!!

[Morgoth]

Sanderson is terrible and you should all feel bad.

[Maark Abbott]

Abyss, on 24 November 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

Maark Abbott, on 24 November 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

Tiste Simeon, on 22 November 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:

I AM MAARK AND NONE MUST HAVE A DIVERGENT OPINION

THIS MAN GETS IT UMU

Seriously though, the cult behind Stormshite is as baffling as the cult of Kingkiller. One series is actively bad, the other is average but ludicrously overhyped. If you dare speak a word against either, the slavering masses descend.

Really? Even when the word you speak is as diplomatically phrased as you did above? Astounding.




....'i disliked this thus everyone who liked it must be a moron' is not the same as ' i did not like this for reasons'... you might try the latter some time and see if the masses are still slavering. I utterly dislike Kingkiller, have said so on many occasion, yet curiously have never been slavered at. No matter how utterly ridiculous i think the dragoncow was.

Wow, you're very good at putting words into people's mouths, because I've never once stated that people who like those low-tier series are morons (I just question why they'd like something which, to my mind, was the Worst Thing Ever). Moreover, if you've stated a dislike for Kingkiller and NOT been slavered at, you haven't actually stated a dislike for Kingkiller, because even a mention of not liking it brings the Dragoncow Riders to your fortress walls.

To address one of Simeon's points, Christall removed me from that group because I posted a screenshot of him being absolutely ludicrous towards new members elsewhere (by way of berating them) and received an 18 page string of messages trying, in sequence, to browbeat, coerce and then finally plead with me to remove the same. It's not really a great loss, the actual discussion of the books has moved elsewhere (and continues here) so it's all good. It's not really a loss from my point of view (the conversation makes interesting reading, incidentally...). I tend to frequent Grimdark Readers / Writers instead now.

RE Bakker, you should make fun of his stuff because there are ludicrous elements. He just happens to have more that I enjoy than he does Inchoroi juices. Splat splat.

[Cause]

Are we having a book war as of old! Glorious. I missed these! This is making my groove

First off, Elantris is a piece of shit but Sanderson himself is some kind of writing genius genetically engineered by Librarians to keep the shelves stocked and make people with writers block weep! GRRM weeps, but he wipes the tears away with fifties so he doesn't show it. Stormlight is fun, the setting is amazing. Mistborn is good. Calamity is a fun YA fantasy. Warbreaker is a piece of shit. When you write 52 books a year I guess they wont all be for everyone.

The dragoncow! Fantasy reached a been there, done there kind of saturation a while back. Then Patrick Rothfus stepped forth and he declared that cows can be dragons to! He shall enter the halls of fame everlasting for this literary genius. It must be made clear that dragon cows are worthy even if a little silly but chickens that are not really chickens earn their writers only disdain and pitying glances. We can all agree that Terry is the real enemy of all fantasy lovers right? Sure the idea of confessors was cool, but the books. OMG the books! I recommend everyone read to at lest book 4 so they can enjoy the many parodies.

Bakker! If you ejaculate black semen you are probably evil

Steven Erikson made me love fantasy about 15 years ago! Then the more the read from him the less I liked him. Go figure

Robert Jordan. Fantasy owes him so much. He created a series monumental in scope that allowed authors the foor in the door to make there. It was only a decade or more later that we began to realize he could never deliver. A once promising series stalled and began a nosedive in qaulity. What series does this remind me of? Nearly all of them

[Andorion]

Cause, on 27 November 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Are we having a book war as of old! Glorious. I missed these! This is making my groove

First off, Elantris is a piece of shit but Sanderson himself is some kind of writing genius genetically engineered by Librarians to keep the shelves stocked and make people with writers block weep! GRRM weeps, but he wipes the tears away with fifties so he doesn't show it. Stormlight is fun, the setting is amazing. Mistborn is good. Calamity is a fun YA fantasy. Warbreaker is a piece of shit. When you write 52 books a year I guess they wont all be for everyone.

The dragoncow! Fantasy reached a been there, done there kind of saturation a while back. Then Patrick Rothfus stepped forth and he declared that cows can be dragons to! He shall enter the halls of fame everlasting for this literary genius. It must be made clear that dragon cows are worthy even if a little silly but chickens that are not really chickens earn their writers only disdain and pitying glances. We can all agree that Terry is the real enemy of all fantasy lovers right? Sure the idea of confessors was cool, but the books. OMG the books! I recommend everyone read to at lest book 4 so they can enjoy the many parodies.

Bakker! If you ejaculate black semen you are probably evil

Steven Erikson made me love fantasy about 15 years ago! Then the more the read from him the less I liked him. Go figure

Robert Jordan. Fantasy owes him so much. He created a series monumental in scope that allowed authors the foor in the door to make there. It was only a decade or more later that we began to realize he could never deliver. A once promising series stalled and began a nosedive in qaulity. What series does this remind me of? Nearly all of them

Counterpoint:

Neither Elantris or Warbreaker are that bad. The reason people liked Mistborn better was that Vin was Kelsier. Elantris had a really drab setting. And Warbreaker was Sanderson levels of bizarre, showcasing how far he would go to avoid showing sex.

Mistborn had a great first book, a meh second book and one of the worst series ending I have ever read.

Spoiler

Everybody become gods and the world is saved by a literal deus ex machina

Stormlight has good worldbuilding but repetitive character work at least for the main protagonist. Also I am not confident if Sanderson will be able to maintain a ten book series properly.


Rothfuss - I was never that fussed about the damned Dragoncow. I loved the beauty of his writing. What I did have a problem with was Kvothe being ultra perfect.

Bakker - Black semen is extremely overblown. You hardly ever notice it. My main issue with him was that the last two books felt a bit like misery porn.

Jordan - is highly overrated. A worldbuilder par excellence, he eventually fell into his own trap and started spending paragraphs describing wall hangings. Also he succeeded in creating someof the most infuriating characters known to fantasy.

SE has only gotten better with time IMO. Both TtH and TCG are comfortably part of my top ten fantasy books.

[Cause]

Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.

[Maark Abbott]

Cause, on 27 November 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.

And usually over someone's [insert body part] here.

Also Ando gotta disagree about Stormlight's worldbuilding. I found everything random for the sake of being random, it didn't get at all, it felt... forced. It was like reading a bad homebrew D&D setting.

[Andorion]

Maark Abbott, on 27 November 2017 - 01:00 PM, said:

Cause, on 27 November 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.


Black semen is extremely overblown.

And usually over someone's [insert body part] here.

Also Ando gotta disagree about Stormlight's worldbuilding. I found everything random for the sake of being random, it didn't get at all, it felt... forced. It was like reading a bad homebrew D&D setting.

Actually if you slot in the strange Roshar climatic environment with the exotic flora and fauna, the worldbuilding in SLA becomes quite intricate. It did seem random at first to me, but once i started paying attention to the environment it clicked.

Sanderson really works hard on worldbuilding and magic systems. Sometimes he overdoes them, but he never neglects them.


Oh and Black Semen is practically invisible in Bakker. I mean I was on the lookout for it and it was present maybe about 5-6 times?

[Mentalist]

You're all (mostly) wrong.


Sanderson is an OK, B-list fantasy author. I moderately enjoyed all his works. Mistborn trilo ended well (the DXM is there, but the grounds for it were laid out throughout the series, so I didn't mind it nearly as much as Ando did). Warbreaker had colours and the talking sword, and the rebel princess was hilariously dumb.

I'm still on the fence about Stormlight. The setting is cool, and I like the idea of crossing epic Fantasy with an Escaflowne-esque Saturday morning cartoon (seriously, wait for it, but in a decade or 2 Bandai will be making shardplate toy sets), but I'm still not convinced Sanderson has enough there for a 10-doorstopper epic. The character writing in Stormlight 1 + 2 was atrocious, but Wax & Wayne books hint that he's getting better.

I read so much about Jordan since joining the forum, I honestly don't think I actually need to read WoT. Ditto Badkind.

Dragoncow sounds ludicrous, but more to the point I tend to avoid any fantasy where the protagonist is perfect. But maybe I'll pick up the series if/when the trilo is ever completed.

Bakker is epic, but sloggy, and too much grimdark at points. YMMV.

SE remains awesome.

[Andorion]

Mentalist, on 27 November 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

You're all (mostly) wrong.


Sanderson is an OK, B-list fantasy author. I moderately enjoyed all his works. Mistborn trilo ended well (the DXM is there, but the grounds for it were laid out throughout the series, so I didn't mind it nearly as much as Ando did). Warbreaker had colours and the talking sword, and the rebel princess was hilariously dumb.

I'm still on the fence about Stormlight. The setting is cool, and I like the idea of crossing epic Fantasy with an Escaflowne-esque Saturday morning cartoon (seriously, wait for it, but in a decade or 2 Bandai will be making shardplate toy sets), but I'm still not convinced Sanderson has enough there for a 10-doorstopper epic. The character writing in Stormlight 1 + 2 was atrocious, but Wax & Wayne books hint that he's getting better.

I read so much about Jordan since joining the forum, I honestly don't think I actually need to read WoT. Ditto Badkind.

Dragoncow sounds ludicrous, but more to the point I tend to avoid any fantasy where the protagonist is perfect. But maybe I'll pick up the series if/when the trilo is ever completed.

Bakker is epic, but sloggy, and too much grimdark at points. YMMV.

SE remains awesome.

It helps of you visualize Sanderson as an anime/video game combo. Because a lot of his writing reads exactly like that. His magic system reminds me of video games and his action/fight scenes are straight anime.

Re Jordan, just skim my read-through thread of WoT - weak first book, good 2-4 books, then it starts to slow down, but the climaxes are good.

[Mentalist]

Also, "Tigana" is underwhelming, and "Sarantine Mosaic" is GGKay's best work.

This post has been edited by Mentalist: 27 November 2017 - 01:36 PM

[Morgoth]

You guys should really start taking my opinion as gospel.

[Andorion]

Mentalist, on 27 November 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

Also, "Tigana" is underwhelming, and "Sarantine Mosaic" is GGKay's best work.

Agreed on Tigana, will have to get back to you on Sarantine. The books are on my shelf, but its hard to imagine anything topping Lions.

Tigana was.....good? Above average? Only I had hoped for a lot more and it has some strange digressions and subplots.

[Mentalist]

Morgoth, on 27 November 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

You guys should really start taking my opinion as gospel.

You didn't read past book 3 of "Shadows of the Apt" before passing judgement on the series, so you are objectively wrong,

[QuickTidal]

Mentalist, on 27 November 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 27 November 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

You guys should really start taking my opinion as gospel.

You didn't read past book 3 of "Shadows of the Apt" before passing judgement on the series, so you are objectively wrong,

I read to book 5. It didn't get much better. Bog standard fantasy with a bug element.

[Morgoth]

Mentalist, on 27 November 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 27 November 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

You guys should really start taking my opinion as gospel.

You didn't read past book 3 of "Shadows of the Apt" before passing judgement on the series, so you are objectively wrong,

If you need four books for a series to get good, it's a bad series.