[Abyss]

To be perfectly clear, i'm going full tilt RCG SPOILERS here, and i'm INCLUDING TtH SPOILERS
SPOILERS YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED - NO BLOCKS, NO FONT COLOURS JUST SPOILERS
HERE THERE BE SPOILERS
SPOILERS
BIG HEAPING GOBS OF GOOEY SPOILERS
BASTED IN SPOILER SAUCE WITH A SIDE OF DEEP FRIED SPOILERY
GOODNESS LIGHTLY DUSTED WITH SPOILERS
FUCKING SPOILERS SPOILERS
RETURN OF THE CRIMSON GUARD SPOILERS
AND SPOILERS
TOLL THE HOUNDS SPOILERS
IF YOU CAN'T SPOILERS FIGURES IT SPOILERS OUT BY SPOILERS NOW YOU DESERVES SPOILERS WHAT YOU
SPOILERS GET AND A WEDGY SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS.

After NoK, i never doubted ICE was going to deliver a solid product. It was clear he 'got' the books even tho by the time NoK was released even in limitted form the MBotF were five books in. And it was clear he was in on the mythology - i wasn't worried about ICE contradicting SE or anything like that - these two clearly worked well in writing parallel stories in the same setting. The real question to my mind was whether he could produce something that hit the same high level of fantasy SE does - in that highly elitist way we Malazan fanatics hold SE to be superior to so many fantasy authors who are higher selling and more widely published. And after to reading RCG, to my mind the answer is, he's already on par with the majority, and well on his way to surpassing them.

This was a great book. I enjoyed it. I was engrossed. I powered thru it the way I have all Malazan books (pre the more cerebral TtH) and then reread the last 200 pages or so again just to graps it. Solid entry into the series, solid addition to SEs work, and i'm totally looking fwd to more of ICE's work (plus bonus if we get TWO Malazan books a year plus a few more after SE finishes his run 10 whatever he decides about continuing in the same setting).

So...

BEST I DID NOT JUST READ THAT MOMENT: I can't even pretend to suggest anything matched Laseen's death. Seriously, ICE worked WONDERS with this character - without ever going into her pov, only showing her thru others' eyes - and then he offed her and holy fuck my reaction was nearly on par with when WJ bought it back in MoI. Laseen. Fucking Laseen. Betrayed Kel and Dancer demoted WJ let Dom and Rel gain power and allowed the Wickan pogrom Laseen. At the moment when it became clear she had planned for everything, secessionist and CrimGrd AND Mallick's plots... AND she took out four or five Avowed by herself... and the reader actually believes that the Malazan Empire is in good hands, he KILLS her. Argh. Seriously, ARGH. I don't fault ICE for this - it worked perfectly and i had what i think was the reaction he was going for but ARGH.

BEST NEW CHARACTER: Nait/Jumpy. probably my favourite storyline in the book, from greedy harbour guard to trying to keep his troops alive sargeant to save the world saboteur, to wanting to shag everyone from overweight high mages to sexually ambiguous gold Moranth... Nait was totally fun to read and i had to resist jumping to his segments. Just a great depiction of an 'ordinary guy in extraordinary circumstances' trying to stay alive. I liked the way the harbour guards' story gradually evolved into just Nait's.

Ullen was great, but i never quite felt we got to see enough of him to justify Dessembrae's eulogy at the end.

BEST SUBTLE CLEVER: Ah... in MoI when Trake thought about Ryllandaras becoming soletaken AND d'ivers, THAT'S what he meant. Nice touch.

BEST OTHER SUBTLE CLEVER: Greymane's sword may be like Brood's hammer.

BEST OTHER OTHER SUBTLE CLEVER: Stalker, Coots and Badlands - from scouts to Assail native to badasses. From Assail. Where apparently ghosts hang out. TELL ME MORE. DAMN YOU!!!!!

BEST HUH???: Wait... Osserc was in the tower, and then in the sword... but he was also in the Raraku memory that Loric visitted in HoC... so was he dreaming himself over there...

BEST CLASSIC FANTASY MOMENT: The final confrontation with Ryllandaras, especially the way Hurl notes things didn't happen the way they would have in a faerie tale. All of it, from the fire to Liss' dance to the fight, just a real 'this is what i read fantasy for' sequence.

WORSE CHOICE OF NAMES: Mallick Rel was already on the scene - did we really need 'Rell' and 'Rillish' too? Also, Skinner and Shimmer. Not a big deal in either case, just a thought.

BEST ACTION SEQUENCE BESIDES THE FINALE: While the finale set of confrontations, from the battle against the Secessionists to the battle against the Guard to the mage battle against Yath, were each fantastic, i have to say Storos' squad run at taking the Heng throne room was great to read. And did a lot to build Storos and Rell as great characters.

BEST OLD CHARACTER NICE TO SEE AGAIN: Temper and Ferrule, together again, and them confronting Skinner just to draw Dassem into the conflict. Loved that and nice build on bits of NoK

WORSE DEATH: Ereko. This was a great character, and i realize the idea was that he had all this history culminating in Kallor taking him down, but it was just so random and seemingly pointless that i was dissapointed. kallor walks out of a gate, chats for a minute and then stabs him. The end. Weakest point in the otherwise great story for me. Dassem beating Kallor didn't save it.

BEST/WORSE OMG I NEED TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS NEXT: Mallick Rel. Loses his Jhistal power but becomes Emporer. Holy. Fuck. Strange days ahead for the Malazan Empire.


More to say later but those are my initial thoughts.


- Abyss, ...seriously, LASEEN, how did he DO that....

This post has been edited by Abyss: 25 September 2008 - 07:54 PM

[Optimus Prime]

Pretty much sums up how I feel about the book, nice job Abyss.

The Empress dying was awesome but just so......"WHAM!" dead moment that I almost laughed.

I agree about Ereko. And he is the last one left? Well we all know that in this universe there are always surprises.....the Thel A'Kai seem awesome.

Dasseem is awesome and one of the most tragic, conflicted characters I've ever read about. ICE seems to know him better.

Osric confuses the shit out of me. He didn't seem like the same guy we met in SE's books...did he? His feeling that he could crush Dasseem makes me really convinced Rake could've trashed him as well.

[Abyss]

MOST OVERDONE DESCRIPTIVE BIT: Was it just me, or did every single character have long, greasy, lank, sweaty, dark, dirty, hair. Somewhere about halfway thru the book this just became overdone - virtually every description involved someone's long gross hair.

BEST CARRYOVERS FROM AN SE BOOK: Iron Bars and Dassem were clearly in good hands here. Plus Laseen.... well... fuck. Words fail me. Tayshrenn was fairly brief - i could so see him getting pissed off like that. Korbolo Dom was fun - it seemed he kept trying to pretend to be this hero and was fooling no one and then Mallick turns on him and he doesn't stand a chance. Nil and Nether didn't get much development back in DG and TB, so it was great to see more done with them here. And i really wasn't expecting to see even a semi-functioning Coltaine again, which was a nice touch. Topper here was nothing like Topper we've seen before but it made sense, and his attack on Cowl was awesome.

All in all i had no problems with anything ICE did with what were previously mainly SE characters. The Osserc thing was a bit odd but it worked.

BEST OPEN ENDED ENDING: Greymane, Kyle & the Assail boys. And a ghost. Great characters i'd like to see more of. I also thought it was a nice touch to have Moss going after assassin girl.

BEST OTHER NEW CHARACTER WHO WASN'T NAIT: I liked Kyle. He grew on me and i could see this as a foundation for him becoming more of a player down the road. He was like a less whiny Crokus.

BEST BIT I HOPE SE PICKS UP IN DoD and TCG: Skinner and his Avowed now serving the CG.

BEST I HAVE TO MENTION THIS AGAIN: ...Laseen. I'm stunned.

BEST BIT I WANTED TO STAND UP AND CHEER FOR: The Wickans bursting out of Chaos and slamming Skinner's Guard. Hoo-ah!

BEST FUNNY: Nait to Tourmaline, while they're rigging munitions just under the edge of Yath's endoftheworld ritual: "So... you're female. Does the armour come off?"

BEST NEW MAGIC THINGY: Human d'ivers!?! Neat.

- Abyss, ..did i mention the Laseen thing...?

[Dancer+]

I'm also part of the 'RotCG was awesome' band. A lot of people were expressing disappointment/concern in another thread (before we moved over to here). I have to say I didn't agree with much of what they had to say.

I liked Ereko's part in the book and didn't feel his death was meaningless although I can understand why someone would. The Dassem/Kallor bit was amusing, in fact Dassem's story throughout was peerless (I really enjoyed it as he's in my top three favourites.) The whole book was promising and entertaining (and there were only brief storylines or aspects that I did not particularly like.)

[ShadowOwl]

Excellent review Abyss! So good to see a positive review on a great book.

[buddhacat]

I read the original, un-proofed version - and boy was that abysmal. When you get side-tracked into whether to throw the book against the far wall or continuing reading - because the story is obviously good - well, that diminishes enjoyment considerably. I hope ICE is served better in the future.

As for Osric, there was a mention of him dreaming by, I think, the Queen of Dreams when L'oric questions her. So, my take is that he has been gallivaniting in his dreams.

Agree with you on most of the "moments"; Ereko's death was puzzling and disappointing in its ordinariness.

[Greymane]

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 05:07 PM, said:

WORSE CHOICE OF NAMES: Mallick Rel was already on the scene - did we really need 'Rell' and 'Rillish' too? Also, Skinner and Shimmer. Not a big deal in either case, just a thought.

Heh, Shimmer/Skinner had me double-checking a few times as well.

And, of course, everytime I read the former's name I said it like Supt Chalmers; "SkiiiNER!"

[Abyss]

I did like how, finally, at the end, when Shimmer took out two hands of Claw herself, we saw where her name comes from.


Speaking of the Guard, a lot of the ones that got bit mentions in prior books didn't really do much... Halfdan sounded like a dwarf in NoK, but we only saw his name once or twice and no description. Lazar got one reference and brief description, iirc as Skinner's standard bearer. Blues is a mage!!!! So is Fingers!!! Wasn't expecting that. Just interesting how the handful of Guard we did 'know' already actually got very little on screen time. Shimmer and Smoky were front and centre, and Iron Bars had his own storyline pretty much completely aside from the rest of the book (tho his Seguleh encounter was awesome).

I did like Black, when he took on Hands and Nait's harbour squad and later was all pissed about how they got him with the chain.

I thought the Brethren were a nice touch - Avowed don't die, they become ghost phones.

- Abyss, bets the service charge is murder

[Therion]

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 10:17 PM, said:

BEST OPEN ENDED ENDING: Greymane, Kyle & the Assail boys. And a ghost. Great characters i'd like to see more of. I also thought it was a nice touch to have Moss going after assassin girl.

Umm... Moss was going after Ghelel: he asked around in the hamlet where she hired a boat to take her upstream. If you mean Vorcan's daughter Taya by assassin girl, she kinda got sucked through a Warren-portal, thereby transforming into "something" (quote, IIRC - possibly related to her daddy supposedly being a demon).

[Reborn]

I also think it was a damn good book ... I was very impressed with it. In terms of story it's as good as Erikson at his best. It was so unpredictable, one could at best guess which side in the conflict would eventually win, and neither side was more good or evil than the other which made it even more interesting. In that regard it reminded me somewhat of Deadhouse Gates, and that is one of my favorite books in the series. And it was so unbelievably intense as well.
In terms of prose and characterization, though, i'd say that he is not as good as Erikson, and it lacked the depth present in Erikson's work. But overall, a damn good and action-packed novel. A great contrast to the introspective (and brilliant) Toll the Hounds.

[Abyss]

Therion, on Sep 26 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

Umm... Moss was going after Ghelel: he asked around in the hamlet where she hired a boat to take her upstream. If you mean Vorcan's daughter Taya by assassin girl, she kinda got sucked through a Warren-portal, thereby transforming into "something" (quote, IIRC - possibly related to her daddy supposedly being a demon).

Ok, that's totally possible and an option i hadn't considered. I figured Vorcan Jr had simply made a run for it and Moss was after her for killing Laseen (and possibly Ullen?). I just took the demon/vortex thing as her escaping into a warren and losing her 'cover'.

It is possible he's after Ghelen, maybe even working for Mallick now that his employer is dead.

Nice catch - i'd rep you if we had that option.

- Abyss, wonders how one pronounces 'Ghelel'.

[Avon]

Abyss, on Sep 26 2008, 05:12 PM, said:

Therion, on Sep 26 2008, 11:38 AM, said:

Umm... Moss was going after Ghelel: he asked around in the hamlet where she hired a boat to take her upstream. If you mean Vorcan's daughter Taya by assassin girl, she kinda got sucked through a Warren-portal, thereby transforming into "something" (quote, IIRC - possibly related to her daddy supposedly being a demon).

Ok, that's totally possible and an option i hadn't considered. I figured Vorcan Jr had simply made a run for it and Moss was after her for killing Laseen (and possibly Ullen?). I just took the demon/vortex thing as her escaping into a warren and losing her 'cover'.

It is possible he's after Ghelen, maybe even working for Mallick now that his employer is dead.

Nice catch - i'd rep you if we had that option.

- Abyss, wonders how one pronounces 'Ghelel'.

I thought when I read it that it was personal interest rather then professional.

[Urizen]

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 08:17 PM, said:

BEST CARRYOVERS FROM AN SE BOOK: Iron Bars and Dassem were clearly in good hands here. Plus Laseen.... well... fuck. Words fail me. Tayshrenn was fairly brief - i could so see him getting pissed off like that. Korbolo Dom was fun - it seemed he kept trying to pretend to be this hero and was fooling no one and then Mallick turns on him and he doesn't stand a chance. Nil and Nether didn't get much development back in DG and TB, so it was great to see more done with them here. And i really wasn't expecting to see even a semi-functioning Coltaine again, which was a nice touch. Topper here was nothing like Topper we've seen before but it made sense, and his attack on Cowl was awesome.

All in all i had no problems with anything ICE did with what were previously mainly SE characters. The Osserc thing was a bit odd but it worked.

I'm not sure I liked Iron Bars. He came off too reckless with regards to injuries in ROTCG "Arrow in the chest? No problem. Slice in the neck? no biggie". At least in MT he relied on strength and superior skills.

While Korbolo Dom was fun, after a while I started wondering how he rose to such prominence in the military? He doesn't exactly show tactical skills in this book or for that matter in DG.

Osserc came off as big bully to me without any care for anything but Osserc. What I found Interesting was the mention of the female hanging out with Osserc, Resuthenal, Could she be L'oric mom?

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 08:17 PM, said:

BEST OPEN ENDED ENDING: Greymane, Kyle & the Assail boys. And a ghost. Great characters i'd like to see more of. I also thought it was a nice touch to have Moss going after assassin girl.

I felt the reverse. Their story is done. If they sit in Brun's temple for the next fifty years no one will miss them. I'd rather read about Kiska, presumably searching Tay, Ghelel as she tires to get life while avoiding the Claw and Sorrow preaching and trying live life as a Dessambre convert.

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 08:17 PM, said:

BEST OTHER NEW CHARACTER WHO WASN'T NAIT: I liked Kyle. He grew on me and i could see this as a foundation for him becoming more of a player down the road. He was like a less whiny Crokus.

Kyle was a less whiney Crokus but with less intelligence as well.
While Nait was fun to read about I'm not sure I liked how he, with a bunch of minimally trained militia men, somhow managed to defeat heavly aromored veterans

Heuk kicked ass. I really liked how he told Possum to bugger off as he was about to duel nine Avowed mages. " Who am I? Your recruiters named me a mage, but I am no mage. And now, you'd best fly away, little death crow. Keep to your games in the shallows of shadow. As for myself- I plumb the depths of Night Eternal

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 08:17 PM, said:

BEST NEW MAGIC THINGY: Human d'ivers!?! Neat.

I liked Ho the character, in fact I hope he'll turn up in future ICE novels, but I didn't like the Human d'ivers concept since to me the point of d'ivers is to have multiple animals with one brain.

[Optimus Prime]

I really want to know what Osric's plan is, I must admit I'm completely baffled by his part in this so far.

So is Skinner the Reaver or King in Chains now?

[Abyss]

Urizen, on Sep 26 2008, 04:12 PM, said:

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 08:17 PM, said:

BEST CARRYOVERS FROM AN SE BOOK: Iron Bars and Dassem were clearly in good hands here. Plus Laseen.... well... fuck. Words fail me. Tayshrenn was fairly brief - i could so see him getting pissed off like that. Korbolo Dom was fun - it seemed he kept trying to pretend to be this hero and was fooling no one and then Mallick turns on him and he doesn't stand a chance. Nil and Nether didn't get much development back in DG and TB, so it was great to see more done with them here. And i really wasn't expecting to see even a semi-functioning Coltaine again, which was a nice touch. Topper here was nothing like Topper we've seen before but it made sense, and his attack on Cowl was awesome.

All in all i had no problems with anything ICE did with what were previously mainly SE characters. The Osserc thing was a bit odd but it worked.

I'm not sure I liked Iron Bars. He came off too reckless with regards to injuries in ROTCG "Arrow in the chest? No problem. Slice in the neck? no biggie". At least in MT he relied on strength and superior skills.

IB went into this book in pretty much a state of mess. The recklessness i took as his reaction to the sheer hopelessness of the situations he kept finding himself in. No one else was going to save the crew if he didn't seize the first ship and beat the Seguleh, AND he had a brutal recovery each time.

Quote

While Korbolo Dom was fun, after a while I started wondering how he rose to such prominence in the military? He doesn't exactly show tactical skills in this book or for that matter in DG.

He was a passable commander back in the day, and at times it didn't seem like he was a total coward.

I liked the bit where he told the soldiers "get moving or i'll have you crucified - i've done it before."

Quote

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 08:17 PM, said:

BEST OPEN ENDED ENDING: Greymane, Kyle & the Assail boys. And a ghost. Great characters i'd like to see more of. I also thought it was a nice touch to have Moss going after assassin girl.

I felt the reverse. Their story is done. If they sit in Brun's temple for the next fifty years no one will miss them. I'd rather read about Kiska, presumably searching Tay, Ghelel as she tires to get life while avoiding the Claw and Sorrow preaching and trying live life as a Dessambre convert.

Kiska did have a couiple of neat moments this book but overall i don't find her that fascinating. The others you mention, sure, but Kyle was/is the Soldier of Light, is carrying around an ascendent's sword and has a Brethren buddy, Greymane may just be Burn's Mortal Sword and the Lost bros are from Assail. Assail. I can't help but be intrigued.

Quote

While Nait was fun to read about I'm not sure I liked how he, with a bunch of minimally trained militia men, somhow managed to defeat heavly aromored veterans

They didn't exactly defeat them. They hunkered down and survived them so the Malazan forces weren't overrun. Most of the time they were either throwing munitions or covering the Prairie Dogs skirmishers.

Quote

Heuk kicked ass. I really liked how he told Possum to bugger off as he was about to duel nine Avowed mages. " Who am I? Your recruiters named me a mage, but I am no mage. And now, you'd best fly away, little death crow. Keep to your games in the shallows of shadow. As for myself- I plumb the depths of Night Eternal

Loved that bit.

Quote

Abyss, on Sep 25 2008, 08:17 PM, said:

BEST NEW MAGIC THINGY: Human d'ivers!?! Neat.

I liked Ho the character, in fact I hope he'll turn up in future ICE novels, but I didn't like the Human d'ivers concept since to me the point of d'ivers is to have multiple animals with one brain.

I like him in the sense that he's a High Mage who was experimenting and split himself into four parts, three of whom decided to kick his ass. It was a nice touch and after all the draconic and animal shapeshifters and the odd demon, hey, why not?

Oh, and Skinner is the King in Chains. kallor is Reaver. At least, at the moment of the end there.


- Abyss, and Abe and Byss and ....

This post has been edited by Abyss: 26 September 2008 - 08:56 PM

[Urizen]

Abyss, on Sep 26 2008, 09:55 PM, said:

He was a passable commander back in the day, and at times it didn't seem like he was a total coward.

I liked the bit where he told the soldiers "get moving or i'll have you crucified - i've done it before."

true, He's not a coward, but his strategies seem to consist of charging straight ahead and hope to overwelm the enemy with superior numbers..

Abyss, on Sep 26 2008, 09:55 PM, said:

Kiska did have a couiple of neat moments this book but overall i don't find her that fascinating. The others you mention, sure, but Kyle was/is the Soldier of Light, is carrying around an ascendent's sword and has a Brethren buddy, Greymane may just be Burn's Mortal Sword and the Lost bros are from Assail. Assail. I can't help but be intrigued.

But they don't have any continuity or connection to future stories. Kyle going tourist in the world do not do it for me. Also I worry the the sword and his "Brethren buddy" will become a crutch upon which they will lean to pull through. " intelligent superpowerful beings are about to do in the merry band of heroes with superior skill and numbers when undeserving hero Kyle pulls out his special sword and convienitly wastes everyone"

Kiska however is one of ICE characters. Seeing how she starred in Nok and all, it's not unlikely she'll be apart of future books.
From this book, the characters I found myself wanting read more about is Kiska, Taya,Ghelel, Sorrow, Heuk, Nait/Jumpy and maybe Ho.
K'azz was underwelming. Maybe he can be excused being out of it for so long and all but the man we see in ROTCG is not someone that inspires people to take such a vow as the Crimson Guard took.

Abyss, on Sep 26 2008, 09:55 PM, said:

They didn't exactly defeat them. They hunkered down and survived them so the Malazan forces weren't overrun. Most of the time they were either throwing munitions or covering the Prairie Dogs skirmishers.

No, but everywhere else when we see well ecuipped veterans Vs shoddy armoured rookies, the veterans always steamroll the rookies

Abyss, on Sep 26 2008, 09:55 PM, said:

Oh, and Skinner is the King in Chains. kallor is Reaver. At least, at the moment of the end there.

Hurl is probably Builder of Light as well since no other House has a builder and Liss calls her Builder
Silk might be a Tiste Liosan indiguise. He might also be part of High House Light, either as Priest or Captain.

[LordRake420]

I loved this freaking book. The book had great guest appearances and the Crimson Guard are just too sweet. It had longlasting ramifications and it fleshed out the world. Easily the 2nd best book I read all year behind TTH. The whole Dassem-Skinner thing is what I was initially excited reading about but by the end of the book Possum was my favorite pov to follow. I find that I really like the various Claw characters so seeing the Veils and Cowl was more than a little badass.

[Quick~]

ooh just finished and I agree with pretty much everything you said xD

I thought ICE did a great job on the book; developing existing characters, bringing in new ones and creating a compelling story etc. I honestly think there wasn't a single plot line that I didn't enjoy reading and I really loved the way characters often had such great progression in terms of their starting point and what they went through to where they ended up (nait being a prime example).

There was only really one dissapointing resolution for me and that was the already mentioned one involving Erekos death. I kind of got what ICE was trying to do with it but it all felt rather underwhelming the way it finished up. I think that was primarily because of the way Kallor popped out of a portal, fought and then was forced to flee, perhaps a longer build up for his appearance or even him already being on Jacuruku might have worked a bit better.

All in all though, I might have enjoyed that more than TtH o-o

[Egwene]

The best book I have read all year. Agree with pretty much every positive comment made sofar and loved every page of it.

One plotline that had me wondering is that of Moss. I thought that his emergence as an assasin was another 'WHAT??!!??' moment. I was suprised that he went after Ghelel in the end. I am not quite sure where to fit him in. With the revolution squashed, Laseen dead and so many other targets running around, I thought it odd that he should go after one lonely frun away female that doesn't seem to have much more of a role to play. Any theories on him?

Anyway, I have decided we must be amongst the most spoilt readers in the entire paper universe. Not only does SE put them out a a good rate, now we hace ICE joining which could mean an average of TWO guaranteed great reads a year.... yeeehhaaaa!!!

[Abyss]

Quote

Abyss, on Sep 26 2008, 09:55 PM, said:

He was a passable commander back in the day, and at times it didn't seem like he was a total coward.

I liked the bit where he told the soldiers "get moving or i'll have you crucified - i've done it before."

true, He's not a coward, but his strategies seem to consist of charging straight ahead and hope to overwelm the enemy with superior numbers..

Yeah, i was rereading the clash with the guard and there's a priceless bit after the initial clashes where Dom's first phalanx is broken, and Jumpy sees a second phalanx coming in with the Sword's standard and thinks something like 'Oh fuck, he's gonna break another one'. But almost every time Dom showed up he was covered in blood and signs of having seen fighting. Mallick really did screw him over at the end there, thop he was an idiot.

Quote

...
Kiska however is one of ICE characters. Seeing how she starred in Nok and all, it's not unlikely she'll be apart of future books.
From this book, the characters I found myself wanting read more about is Kiska, Taya,Ghelel, Sorrow, Heuk, Nait/Jumpy and maybe Ho.
K'azz was underwelming. Maybe he can be excused being out of it for so long and all but the man we see in ROTCG is not someone that inspires people to take such a vow as the Crimson Guard took.

I liked Kiska more in NoK, but it was neat to see her surprise Possum and cover Tays' back.
Heuk was interesting and i'm definitely curious about him and any connection to Draconus or the Andii.
K'azz did have a few moments at the end there, the way he acceded to Lean at the bridge but ensured Kyle was covered, then got his people out at the end.

Quote

Abyss, on Sep 26 2008, 09:55 PM, said:

They didn't exactly defeat them. They hunkered down and survived them so the Malazan forces weren't overrun. Most of the time they were either throwing munitions or covering the Prairie Dogs skirmishers.

No, but everywhere else when we see well ecuipped veterans Vs shoddy armoured rookies, the veterans always steamroll the rookies

Point is made more than once that Braven Tooth (and iirc Urko?) held the last phalanx together - the first two shattered, and whatever veterans and heavies the Imperials had were in those formations while the skirmishers moved around them. Also, Shimmer more than once is horrified at the damage the Prairie Dogs were inflicting on the Guard. I'm not sure credit goes directly to Laseen, but faced with similar numbers that are better trained and armed, equipping a mass of rookies with light armour, knives and easily managed crossbows was a great idea.

Quote

Hurl is probably Builder of Light as well since no other House has a builder and Liss calls her Builder
Silk might be a Tiste Liosan indiguise. He might also be part of High House Light, either as Priest or Captain.

Good point re Hurl but i suspect that was a reference, not a position in a House at all. Posiitons in foretelling, deck readings and prophecies and positions in a House are NOT the same thing. (tho sometimes they are).

LordRake420, on Sep 27 2008, 10:29 AM, said:

... by the end of the book Possum was my favorite pov to follow. I find that I really like the various Claw characters so seeing the Veils and Cowl was more than a little badass.

Possum totally grew on me. I liked how he went from resentful that Laseen used to be his underling to just utterly in awe of her and risking his life to help her against Cowl. Just in time for her to get nailed, of course.

The Claw and Veils were a nice touch. I liked the notion that ex-Claw Cowl had created his own assassin-mage cadre.

Quick~, on Sep 28 2008, 08:33 AM, said:

...I thought ICE did a great job on the book; ....All in all though, I might have enjoyed that more than TtH o-o

Ultimately i think i liked TtH more, especially for the sheer scope of what SE attempted and accomplished with that book. But TtH was a cerebral read, while RCG, while it had its thinkymeatz moments, was overall great fun and solid addition to the series.



- Abyss, ...figures double-Malazan goodness can only be awesome.