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If the Errant is a forgotten God in the eyes of the rest of the world, then presumably Oppon could be the modern equivalent....younger gods who have usurped that role?
A bit like Shadowthrone and his holding the throne of a younger and more human aspected realm?
The Errant
#2 Guest_Harlest Eberict_*
Posted 24 March 2004 - 05:37 PM
No, given that quote you gave it's probable to me the Errant and Oponn just have similar aspect, sort of like Fener and Treach, no warren though I think. If that is true I wonder what a meeting between the Errant and Oponn cause a neutralising? or just the Errant couldn't operate in say Darujhistan and Oponn couldn't in Letheras.
[This message was edited by Korgan on 24 March 2004 at 05:44 PM.]
[This message was edited by Korgan on 24 March 2004 at 05:44 PM.]
#3
Malaclypse 
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Posted 02 March 2005 - 11:23 AM
*bump*
#5 Guest_Lady Envy_*
Posted 24 March 2004 - 02:24 PM
He [Errant] laught, then, with a carelesss wave, walked past Bugg.
The problems with Gods, Bugg decided, was the way they ended up getting dragged along. Wherever their believers went. This one had vanished from memory everywhere else, as extinct as the Holds themselves. p.545, trade paperback
Assuming Bugg is talking about the Errant and no himself, this would mean that the Errant does not exist anywhere outside of the Letherii world.
The Errant was an old God of the First Empire, his picture can be found on the oldest tiles.
He could possibly still be K'rul, assuming K'rul was known as Errant in the first Empire and Kallor's curse on him (to become a forgotten God) only worked in the realm of the Malazan world.
But I think that there is no direct connection to Oppon. They might use a similar aspect/warren (possibly Mockra for mind control), which would explain why they both use the push and the pull.
Am I completely off on the wrong trail?
The problems with Gods, Bugg decided, was the way they ended up getting dragged along. Wherever their believers went. This one had vanished from memory everywhere else, as extinct as the Holds themselves. p.545, trade paperback
Assuming Bugg is talking about the Errant and no himself, this would mean that the Errant does not exist anywhere outside of the Letherii world.
The Errant was an old God of the First Empire, his picture can be found on the oldest tiles.
He could possibly still be K'rul, assuming K'rul was known as Errant in the first Empire and Kallor's curse on him (to become a forgotten God) only worked in the realm of the Malazan world.
But I think that there is no direct connection to Oppon. They might use a similar aspect/warren (possibly Mockra for mind control), which would explain why they both use the push and the pull.
Am I completely off on the wrong trail?
#6
Dawndeath
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Posted 09 March 2004 - 05:39 AM
Who is he? I'm really confused: at one time in the book, someone says that the Errant is the Letherii personification of the Forkrul Assail race, but later on he appears to be an Elder God (one who nudges, and acts indirectly: through mortals). A bit like K'rul in that regard.
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FKA Icarium
In a game of patience, the mortal is ever at a disadvantage...
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FKA Icarium
In a game of patience, the mortal is ever at a disadvantage...
#7
caladanbrood
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Posted 18 March 2004 - 07:40 AM
malar - I'd say coincedence... you write, have you never found it hard to think of names that don't have some connection to each other? It ain't so easy
And this is from a guy who called a race that degenerated into civil war the "Chain Mail"
Maybe Kilmandaros? After all, he was mentioned in the prologue more than the other elder gods, and most of the time the guys in the prologue show up later in the book in this series...
Personally I still think it's an off-shoot of K'rul though.
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I shall call you Squishy, and you shall be my squishy... OW! BAD SQUISHY!
If you come to a fork in the road, pick it up.
And this is from a guy who called a race that degenerated into civil war the "Chain Mail"Maybe Kilmandaros? After all, he was mentioned in the prologue more than the other elder gods, and most of the time the guys in the prologue show up later in the book in this series...
Personally I still think it's an off-shoot of K'rul though.
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I shall call you Squishy, and you shall be my squishy... OW! BAD SQUISHY!
If you come to a fork in the road, pick it up.
O xein', angellein Lakedaimoniois hoti têde; keimetha tois keinon rhémasi peithomenoi.
#8
Lister of Smeg
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Posted 18 March 2004 - 08:29 AM
I always thought of Errant as a separate entity, neither K'rul or Oponn. And isn't Kilmandaros female? If I remember the prologue correctly ...
Avoid being seen as racist by saying, "I'm not a racist, but ..." prior to making a racist comment.
#9 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 09 March 2004 - 06:40 AM
He wouldnt have to be at two places at once. He'd just have to be able to travel very quickly.
He didnt seem anything like a forkrul assail even if thats what it said.
I like him.
"Pardon me if I just hunker down here until somebody inspires me with leadership."
He didnt seem anything like a forkrul assail even if thats what it said.
I like him.
"Pardon me if I just hunker down here until somebody inspires me with leadership."
#10 Guest_Kamek_*
Posted 10 March 2004 - 06:55 AM
The point is that Oponn has been pissing people off a hell of a long time before Gardens, if you read comments about them from the likes of Anomander Rake.
The Errant could well have to do with luck, but if so, he's the Holds equivalent of Oponn, not Oponn. He seems to be able to push AND pull, unlike the male twin.
Plus his personality is nothing like the male twin, both when he's revealed as a God and when he's posing as Turald.
The Errant could well have to do with luck, but if so, he's the Holds equivalent of Oponn, not Oponn. He seems to be able to push AND pull, unlike the male twin.
Plus his personality is nothing like the male twin, both when he's revealed as a God and when he's posing as Turald.
#11 Guest_Pale Remnants_*
Posted 10 March 2004 - 02:48 PM
I believe Errant is a version of the Oponn,but is limited by his other aspect...i.e he can only "Nudge" and not directly act.
Also, just as Rhudal is about to enter the Chamber in Letheras and dipose the King...a coin falls from "armour" spinning into the room...reminiscent of the Coins in Gotm...also Errant is present at the time.
Aside : Did anyone else notice the similarity between the Errant and Oscar Wildes "Dorian Gray"..i.e Aspects in paintings,Longlived,foppish, Bi sexual,outside of the main action looking in...Just me then!
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He is the Green Man, Jack in the Green, the Old Man of the Woods, Green George and many other things to many other men...
Also, just as Rhudal is about to enter the Chamber in Letheras and dipose the King...a coin falls from "armour" spinning into the room...reminiscent of the Coins in Gotm...also Errant is present at the time.
Aside : Did anyone else notice the similarity between the Errant and Oscar Wildes "Dorian Gray"..i.e Aspects in paintings,Longlived,foppish, Bi sexual,outside of the main action looking in...Just me then!
____________________________________________
He is the Green Man, Jack in the Green, the Old Man of the Woods, Green George and many other things to many other men...
#12
Dawndeath
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Posted 20 March 2004 - 02:47 PM
What hold does the Errant control? What house/warren is related to Oponn?
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FKA Icarium
In a game of patience, the mortal is ever at a disadvantage...
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FKA Icarium
In a game of patience, the mortal is ever at a disadvantage...
#13 Guest_Edge_*
Posted 22 March 2004 - 01:47 PM
Feather Witch seems to credit the Errant with bringing both the Azath and all the holds into being in her first vision. Since Krul is part Eleint I don't think he can have created his own hold.
Bugg specifically says the Errant is the Forkrul Assail god. Since they worshipped Balance isn't it possible that the Errant is the Creator of the Deck (and the Holds). Wouldn't that be the ultimate imposition of Balance?
"Boromir" he quipped "the chances of you getting your hands on this ring are about as high as the ankle socks on a very small beetle that's crouching in a ditch... in a quarry... in the Low countries"
The Lord of the Rings as written by Blackadder
Bugg specifically says the Errant is the Forkrul Assail god. Since they worshipped Balance isn't it possible that the Errant is the Creator of the Deck (and the Holds). Wouldn't that be the ultimate imposition of Balance?
"Boromir" he quipped "the chances of you getting your hands on this ring are about as high as the ankle socks on a very small beetle that's crouching in a ditch... in a quarry... in the Low countries"
The Lord of the Rings as written by Blackadder
#14 Guest_Lyanna Stark_*
Posted 11 March 2004 - 04:40 AM
quote:
Also, just as Rhudal is about to enter the Chamber in Letheras and dipose the King...a coin falls from "armour" spinning into the room...reminiscent of the Coins in Gotm...also Errant is present at the time.
Oh, that's a good catch!
My, I feel so much less stupid now.
#16 Guest_Serbitar_*
Posted 11 March 2004 - 05:48 AM
The errant must have been a god of the first human empire (see page 545 "a god that was dragged along with his followers and is forgotten everywhere else) connected to the old system of holds.
The Oppon twins are young gods (at least according to GoTM) that are very afraid of older Ascendants like Rake and even Shadowthrone.
Interesting question: Why is he feeling guilty about the whole Soletaken catastrophe that destroyed the first empire?
And what role will he play in the new conquered Letheras? He doesn't seem to be afraid of Rhulad and the Chained god and has allready fascinated Feather witch.
The Oppon twins are young gods (at least according to GoTM) that are very afraid of older Ascendants like Rake and even Shadowthrone.
Interesting question: Why is he feeling guilty about the whole Soletaken catastrophe that destroyed the first empire?
And what role will he play in the new conquered Letheras? He doesn't seem to be afraid of Rhulad and the Chained god and has allready fascinated Feather witch.
#17 Guest_cprlblues_*
Posted 18 March 2004 - 03:17 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Sharbu:
I always assumed he was the equivalent of Oponn. Luck related (spinning coins, push and pull and all that). Also he was bisexual, kind of invoking the thought that he is both male and female...just as the Twins of Oponn are male and female.
Perhaps the twins are similar to Shadowthrone, ascended humans accessing a human-accessible warren related to that of the Errant. He controls the elder hold, the twins control the lesser version.
#18 Guest_Kamek_*
Posted 09 March 2004 - 02:21 PM
I really don't think he's the male twin. For a start the male twin is bad luck and it didn't seem like he was paricularly dolling that out, plus he refers to himself as an observer. From his comments this seems to be the first time he has decided to act, to stop being impartial (though only to his limits of course), which certainly wouldn't be the case for Oponn.
I think he's just a new guy.
I think he's just a new guy.
#19 Guest_Lyanna Stark_*
Posted 10 March 2004 - 03:02 AM
quote:
I had him as the Letherei version of Oponn as well. Push and Pull / Chance seemed to be his aspect through out to me. The Letherei seemed to look on him as "luck" which could be good or bad just like Oponn.
Thank you!! I thought about Oponn as well, and was at one time sure that the Errant and Oponn must be two different expressions of the same thing. I was too embarrassed about it to post it though since the ending of MT seemed to prove it so wrong.
Glad to see I was not the only one.
Perhaps the Errant is the Elder version of Oponn?
#20 Guest_mikepotter_*
Posted 22 March 2004 - 08:29 PM
as for the forkrul assail i think that they are the original owners of the empty hold. the holds represent to me an elder peoples one and all, hold of ice jaghut, hold of beasts imass, hold of dragons err dragons, the azath etc, the empty hold possibly relates to the assail, as to those who will say that forkrull assail still exist feather witches second vision sais that the empty hold has become resently crowded.
let the rivers run red
let the rivers run red
