[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Ok, I just finished the book. I read it way too fast, and desperately need a reread. I think I missed some important things, and am actually a little embarrassed to ask about stuff I should have gotten. I imagine others might have similar questions. After all, this book was deep, we all couldn't have understood it perfectly! The rule of the thread: no giving anyone grief for asking a stupid or obvious question. Answer it if you can, leave them alone if you can't answer.

So, my first stupid question. Why did everything, specifically the climax, happen in Darujhistan? Serious convergence of powers here, all with different goals, but why in D-stan?

[Cause]

No one knows.

It does appear hood needed a large number of sacrifices to materialize but even so the god of death could have probally organised this anywhere. The convergance was needed to guard the sword. Yet why darujhistan is still a mystery, as is why Rake needed dassem to kill him etc etc

[Leanoric]

Well, didn't Rake need Dassem to kill him to that he could get inside Dragnipur? And once inside, he could move the gate to Black Coral and anchor it there. If he hadn't, chaos would have won and the gate would have been lost.

[Dolorous Menhir]

It would have been hard for Kruppe to narrate if it wasn't set in Darujhistan.

[Obdigore]

Because Challice D'arle NEEDED to die.

My stupid question: Why does hood want a wife?

I love you DM, don't hurt me!

[Illuyankas]

I almost don't care anymore.

[Vengeance]

Raymond Luxury Yacht;356682 said:

Ok, I just finished the book. I read it way too fast, and desperately need a reread. I think I missed some important things, and am actually a little embarrassed to ask about stuff I should have gotten. I imagine others might have similar questions. After all, this book was deep, we all couldn't have understood it perfectly! The rule of the thread: no giving anyone grief for asking a stupid or obvious question. Answer it if you can, leave them alone if you can't answer.

So, my first stupid question. Why did everything, specifically the climax, happen in Darujhistan? Serious convergence of powers here, all with different goals, but why in D-stan?

Darujhistan is probably a center of power in the world. Kind of like how Malaz is and Lether. I would suspect that there are a couple of places in the world that just seem to draw convergences. It might have something to do with the Azarth houses.

[Abyss]

Well, why NOT in Darujhistan?

This was Rake and Hood's plan, apparently with Cot and ST involved, and Baruk and Brood. Rake wouldn't have trusted ST and Cot not to seize the sword, but he would trust Baruk and Brood, and Baruk is in Darujhistan.

Plus the plan required Hood to manifest fully, which apparently required an interim soldier and Mason, hence Gaz and Thordy.

I wonder at the Hounds of Shadow's initial rampage. Were excessive bloodshed and carnage required for the plan? Was this just a good way to take Pallid and Lock out of play while the other Hounds covered Dassem? Was ST was feeling vindictive against the city for some reason?



- Abyss, does not dislike cities.

[Optimus Prime]

Going back to Darujhistan also helped tie up that arc of the story nicely.

I'm still wondering who was behind the Hounds of Light and their attempt to take the sword?

[Leanoric]

I figured the Hounds of Light are possibly linked to Osserc or something, and they were trying to grab the sword for him. Imagine Osserc with the power of Dragnipur to enforce the Liosan sense of extreme justice? Or maybe just the Liosan, if not Osserc himself.

[Lister of Smeg]

I want to know why Mael tried to help Hood out by delaying Dassem at the beginning. He obviously isn't part of the in-crowd with ST, Cot, Hood and Rake.

[Banana]

Lister of Smeg;357079 said:

I want to know why Mael tried to help Hood out by delaying Dassem at the beginning. He obviously isn't part of the in-crowd with ST, Cot, Hood and Rake.

I think Mael was just helping to control the timing of the convergence.

[Aptorian]

Banana;357091 said:

I think Mael was just helping to control the timing of the convergence.

No, he was trying to stop Dassem period.

It sounded to me like Mael wanted to collect Dassem like Gothos tried to store away Nimander or ST put Kalam in an Azath.

Mael obviously thought the a Dassem vs Hood convergence was a bad thing. Why? Who knows... maybe he preferred having a strong god of death on his side against the CG and ment the breaking of Dragnipur could wait.

[Banana]

Aptorian;357096 said:

No, he was trying to stop Dassem period.

Maybe but I seem to remember a part where ST and Cotillion are talking and the subject of Mael comes up and Cotillion says that he thinks Mael was just trying to slow down Traveller not stop him.

[kalmavet7]

Abyss;357033 said:

Well, why NOT in Darujhistan?

This was Rake and Hood's plan, apparently with Cot and ST involved, and Baruk and Brood. Rake wouldn't have trusted ST and Cot not to seize the sword, but he would trust Baruk and Brood, and Baruk is in Darujhistan.

Agreed. Baruk is just about the only human that Rake trusted or had a close relationship with. Baruk and Brood balance the presence of ST and Cot--thus it needed to be in Daru. ST and Cot were needed to get Dassem there. For his part, Dassem was needed for a couple reasons:

1. Not many characters would even think to challenge Rake. Dassem was both motivated enough to do so (Hood) and good enough to think he could win. The others who might like Kallor, etc....

2. aren't trustworthy. they couldn't risk someone w/ Kallor's power and intent wielding Dragnipur.

I'm also assuming that the sword somehow figures in "intent to kill." I doubt Rake could enter by dropping it on his foot, but who knows.

and i can't help but wonder if ST and Cot didn't also involve Dassem to give him a new Tragedy to focus on. "Enough w/ Hood already, Dassem, you killed Rake." Now maybe he'll accept God-hood or be able to move on or something. or be easier to manipulate, those bastards! (admittedly this part is really fuzzy but fun to think about)

[Optimus Prime]

Leanoric;357077 said:

I figured the Hounds of Light are possibly linked to Osserc or something, and they were trying to grab the sword for him. Imagine Osserc with the power of Dragnipur to enforce the Liosan sense of extreme justice? Or maybe just the Liosan, if not Osserc himself.

As far as we know, Osric cares little or nothing about the Liosan. He seems to be an extreme introvert in that way. So if he wanted Dragnipur, it would be for his own reasons.

[Leanoric]

I agree, that's why I changed my mind haflway through writing it and said it could be Osserc OR the Liosan. I remembered the Osserc really cared very little for Liosan. But I do have some recollection that they get their... unforgiving sense of justice from him, perhaps.

Anyway, I was just thinking who we know about who is aspected to Light (pretty much just Osserc and the Liosan? Do we know any Liosan ascendants?). I suppose it could be someone else entirely, since the Hounds of Darkness don't really have much to do with the Tiste Andii or Mother Dark, maybe the Hounds of Light are the same. Just their own beasts, so to speak.

[Dance]

Leanoric;357141 said:

I agree, that's why I changed my mind haflway through writing it and said it could be Osserc OR the Liosan. I remembered the Osserc really cared very little for Liosan. But I do have some recollection that they get their... unforgiving sense of justice from him, perhaps.

Anyway, I was just thinking who we know about who is aspected to Light (pretty much just Osserc and the Liosan? Do we know any Liosan ascendants?). I suppose it could be someone else entirely, since the Hounds of Darkness don't really have much to do with the Tiste Andii or Mother Dark, maybe the Hounds of Light are the same. Just their own beasts, so to speak.

L'oric is a Liosan ascendant if I recall right.

What if it was Father Light directly?

[HoosierDaddy]

Dance;357145 said:

L'oric is a Liosan ascendant if I recall right.

What if it was Father Light directly?

We don't really know. I think there was speculation that he was Captain for a while, but it might have been one of those roles where he was merely there for a single purpose, like the Mason and Soldier in TTH. They aren't really forever and always these roles like the Seguleh 2nd and Baudin seem to be.

Why would Father Light want dragnipur? It's hard to attach desires to a title we for which we have no idea what person occupies it.

[Illuyankas]

L'oric is Osserc's son. He's under some kind of reverse-Nimander wussification effect, going from alright to fail from HOC to TBH. I can't imagine a less likely ascendant Tiste or part-Tiste. Yes, including Pearl.