[tiam]

Id say they simply let them selves be killed. Baruk wonder at his companions incompetence that night claiming perhaps that despite Vorcans impressive skills the rest of the cabal let themselves be killed to escape what evers coming.

On another note p 765 when Venaz looks at Bainisks coin from the time of the tyrant he sees a sort of floating moon above darujhistan. Does this link possibly to the return of the sky keeps

[Dr Trouble]

Imperial Historian;350554 said:

I asked steve about this at the bbq, and from what I remember this is what he said

Spoiler

The Tyrant is not kallor. The tyrants storyline deserves a whole book, and ICE will be writing about this in his book set on darujhistan (which I think is his third book), as it was his idea. He also said that karsa, and I presume a large number of the characters left in darujhistan will not appear in the next two books and will be taken over by ICE for his as yet untitled book

Spoiler

This makes me unbelievably irritated. ICE is taking over that and Karsa won't appear again in SEs remaining two books?

If this is true, I swear I will burn all my erikson books and never read him again. Building up a character to the degree that he has Karsa and not have him take a Stand in The Final Book is not really fair to the reader in my mind.

[Skywalker]

Trouble;362254 said:

This makes me unbelievably irritated. ICE is taking over that and Karsa won't appear again in SEs remaining two books?

If this is true, I swear I will burn all my erikson books and never read him again. Building up a character to the degree that he has Karsa and not have him take a Stand in The Final Book is not really fair to the reader in my mind.

Partially agree with that... wont be burning my books any time, but why build up Karsa so much through books 4, 6, 7, 8? Not that he actually *did* anything in book 8 other than meet folks, defeat a random slaver, and play a kind of non-essential part in the climax....

Skywalker - grumble mumbles

[Egwene]

Don't burn them, Trouble... throw them my way. Trying to get my brother into reading them.

Spoiler

Though... I must admit, I am not sure about how I like the idea of one author starting a storyline and another author finishing it within another set of books. Definitely unusual and I'll reserve judgment until I've read those books.

As for the Tyrant... what about Icarium? He's definitely been known as one on more than one occasion. Obviously, we are hoping for him to get past that little affliction of his and maybe Humble and Co trying to raise a tyrant will get them a reformed one

Edit: sorry about the temporary spoiler lapse!

[Abyss]

In theory, i love the idea of Iccy turning out to be the Tyrant in question. In execution i think it's beyond unlikely, but the theory is a fun one.

- Abyss, ... yes, it's Darth Iccy....

[Vengeance]

Trouble;362254 said:

This makes me unbelievably irritated. ICE is taking over that and Karsa won't appear again in SEs remaining two books?

If this is true, I swear I will burn all my erikson books and never read him again. Building up a character to the degree that he has Karsa and not have him take a Stand in The Final Book is not really fair to the reader in my mind.

Well the horror that every seer sees in Karsa future couldn't possibly be covered in the remaining books. To much other threads that need to be closed...

Plus Ice Is a good writer and will do him justice...

[eekwibble]

The last 5 or 6 posts have totally negated IH's entirely appropriate spoiler warning!

Ah, what the hell.

EDIT: For; nobody cares!

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

Trouble;362254 said:

This makes me unbelievably irritated. ICE is taking over that and Karsa won't appear again in SEs remaining two books?

If this is true, I swear I will burn all my erikson books and never read him again. Building up a character to the degree that he has Karsa and not have him take a Stand in The Final Book is not really fair to the reader in my mind.

Me too. If it goes down like that, it will forever drop this series down a couple of notches for me. I'm not saying i want karsa'a ENTIRE story played out, but at least as far as he relates to the CG and what happens in this series. His grand homecoming and whatnot can be covered by ICE.

[Optimus Prime]

Vengeance;362299 said:

Well the horror that every seer sees in Karsa future couldn't possibly be covered in the remaining books. To much other threads that need to be closed...

Plus Ice Is a good writer and will do him justice...

I agree. It matters not whether SE or ICE finishes the Karsa storyline, as long as it's great.

[Dr Trouble]

Vengeance;362299 said:

Well the horror that every seer sees in Karsa future couldn't possibly be covered in the remaining books. To much other threads that need to be closed...

Plus Ice Is a good writer and will do him justice...

Spoilered for Eekwibble, although I don't really see the point as its not really a final decision from where I am sitting.

Spoiler

I don't care about all his other threads, his home and his war on the world and what have you, ICE can do all that if him and Steve want. But as RLY says, for him to have a part in the final book is paramount to my enjoyment.

And I can't really agree that ICE is a good author at this point in time. Having only read NoK, which While a good story was not all that well executed In my opinion (Although I'm reading GoTM at the moment and see the same things in Eriksons earliest book, so there is hope.). However, I was fine with him doing the Crimson Guard because that would be wholly his affair. Whereas Karsa has been a pretty prominent figure in SEs books, and for the story to be finished by SE as it was in TTH without him picking it up again; That's just horribly disappointing.

Again, I have nothing against ICE. I just feel strongly about this character.

(And I was being a tad melodramatic about burning the books. But I probably wouldn't continue the series or read it again.)

[Grief]

Anyone else remember the mention of Draconus being a "cruel tyrant" at one point. I believe its K'rul or parans convo.

[Dragnipurake]

I have similar fears as Trouble above. I havent read ROTCG but NOK was great only on the second reading. still no problem with that. Some of the people here have ranked ROTCG as the best malazan book, so, that gives hope. But when i compare how SE described dassem's fight scene and how ICE did it in NOK (from temper's POV, when dassem fights yghatan's champion- hope this isn't a spoiler), the former is at a totally different level. I am somewhat apprehensive about how Karsa/seguleh/kallor/dassem?/other uberdudes will be written.

[Gem Windcaster]

Abyss;362287 said:

In theory, i love the idea of Iccy turning out to be the Tyrant in question. In execution i think it's beyond unlikely, but the theory is a fun one.

- Abyss, ... yes, it's Darth Iccy....

I am guessing the tyrant is some yet to us unknown character. But it would be cool if Icarium is the tyrant - nothing turns out as suspected in the series. Iccy do have a machine of his in darujistan, after all.


- Gem, imagines Iccy saying "no I am your father!"

ps. or maybe Gothos is the tyrant.

[Morgoth]

I don't think btb, as I've said before that the Tyrant is one specific character. Instead I think the Tyrant is a title given to whomever grasp the throne of Darjhuihuhihuhstan. The first city or something, it must count for something, right?

[Dr Trouble]

Given Darujhistans history, I'm in a mind to agree. But I think that its going to be a bunch of evil people controlling a god, thus a reign of terror!

[Urb]

Not sure if this has already been mentioned, but it seems rather likely the Tyrants were human. At least the last one was.

TtH page 247 said:

- an ancient, black-stained coin bearing the head of a man the sheperd didn't recognize - not that he would, for that face belonged to the last Tyrant of Darujhistan.

[Dr Trouble]

It states that the Tyrants were human in GotM. Pretty early.

So no ones disputing that. Thats a strange quote though, I wonder why Erikson felt the need for it?

[Urb]

Ah, well I wasn't sure, because people were suggesting some non-humans could turn out to be the next Tyrant.

[Gem Windcaster]

Hm, interesting. I am guessing there will be some surprises along the way, but from that quote, a human does seem likely.

[FilthyGnome]

I haven't read through much of the posts around here or in this thread, but would it be such a long stretch to assume that the Tyrant is a Seguleh?

It could be that at some point in history one Seguleh got so powerful he took over Darujhistan and a succession of Seguleh Tyrants existed, however without their masks as they were either renegade Seguleh or they hadn't adopted the mask yet.

If they hadn't masked their faces at that stage, could it be then that something forced them to do it? Something like a revolution amongst themselves, perhaps outing the Tyrants and removing them from power with the help of the Cabal.

If it proved a momentous task and they didn't fully vanquish the Tyrant(s), it might be that they recreated their society into a warrior race, awaiting the day the Tyrants would rise and stand against them.

A bit farfetched, but it's doable...