[Slum]

I imagine Cutter and Apsalar will reunite, patch things up, and then one of them will die. It's just how these things go. No happy endings for lovers. Except Torvald and Tess.


Kalam taught Cutter how to use knives in their journey together in Deadhouse Gates, for sure; I'm not sure about any other time.

[Traveller]

That rings a bell, yes. Clever that in his past company with Apsalar etc. Cutter felt like the slow one, the liability... right up until he met Rallick. Great moment, revealing how much he's changed.
Cutter and Apsalar would be a lethal combination now. If they could meet up without some tragedy occurring moments before their reunion..

[Cause]

I felt that the fight did not make me think of cutter as being so strong so much as rallick is just not that good. After all what has rallick ever done to make us think he is such an amazing assasin. Dancer, Apsalar etc kill armies of men in seconds this was never rallicks level. Cutter beating him does not mean much, they are both still b league

[Traveller]

Well, Rallick was always considered to be a serious contender for guild leader... that is relative, however, compared to the likes of Apsalar. Cutter beating him may not mean much, but it does give a good demonstration of how much he's changed.

[bubba]

I did like the description of the fight with Gorlas. The foreman wasn't even sure Cutter even moved. I started this thread right after his fight with Ralic, came back the next day and read the spoiler that he kills Gorlas.(my first and last time in the toll section of the forum) So I was expecting this big fight and then "Bang" it's over...I lol

[HoosierDaddy]

Everybody is leaving out the most important part of Cutter's entire story line in TtH. He switches back to Crokus.

By the way, comparing anyone to Apsalar is ridiculous. She was posessed and maintains the skills of the God of Assassins. Of course everyone else will pale in comparison! Kalam could have been Claw-leader, Rallick is evidently Vorcan's lost love and a contender for guild-leader. Crokus was a bad-ass assassin who has now decided he'd rather be Apsalar's crotch-hound (which I understand ) than an assassin.

[Abyss]

HoosierDaddy;350371 said:

Everybody is leaving out the most important part of Cutter's entire story line in TtH. He switches back to Crokus.
...

I'm glad someone else noticed this.

irony: in HoC, Cutter and Cotillion discuss his name change, and Cots specultaes that Cutters wants 'Crokus' to be remembered as an innocent theif boy in Darujhistan.

Then in TtH Cutter returns, but immediately makes it clear he's a very different person - he pwns Rallick, he sulks, he sheboings Challice, he's a dick to Scillara, he executes Gorlas... obviously an innocent no longer but faced with certain death v the HoL, he takes up his old name again.

And then goes off in search of his assassin ascendent ex whom he knows damn well will lead him down the path of a killer.

It's an interesting series of development. Emo factors aside, i've always liked Crokus/Cutter as a character and his evolution has been fun to read.

As for 'training', Kalam taught him knife fighting when they travelled together post GotM-pre-DG. It was hinted that Icarium taught him some fighting but not clearly stated (something about Crukus mimicking Icarium's movements, plus we have Cotillion's blessing and it's not redicuous to think Apsalar taught him a few things outside of the sleeping bag.


- Abyss, all but cheered when Cutter took out Nom...

[Jason]

For the following reasons:

His Homies: (friends and teachers)
Kruppe, Rallick, Murillo, Coll, Fiddler, Kalam, Icarium, Mappo, Pust, Cotillion, Hebroic, Traveller, Andarist, Barathol, Spite, Karsa and various cool demons and shadow hounds.

His Babes:
Aspalar, Scilara, Challice.


The Shit Hes Been Through:
Carried the coin of Oppon, hunted by frikin everyone, saved his crew when Lorn put down an arse whippin, pretty much saved the Daru, traveled 7cs, shagged the mega hottie Aspalar, walked the Azath, faced convergence 1, experienced an Iccy tantrum, took up professional Killing, defended the throne, gave Dass his sword, hung in the shadow realm, took two hotties all the way across one of the two most dangerous continents in the world, banged one of them and made the other one so sex crazed she's gone out of control! , kicked Rallicks arse, shagged his childhood obsession now Darujistans most desired woman, killed Gorlas, hung at a convergence 2, probably a few other things... Oh yeah! Got disemboweled and saved the freakin world when the Jades came down!

[Abyss]

Jason;374677 said:

...saved the freakin world when the Jades came down!

Let's be honest here - he spent that entire scene drowning.

But otherwise you're right

- Abyss, glug glug glug...

[Epiph]

Aptorian;345293 said:

He'll always have a place in my heart for killing Gorlas. Son of a bitch.

I still didn't liked Erikson just sending him away at the end of the book though, when the main reason for Cutter returning was the feeling of impending doom.

Agreed and agreed. I always got the feeling that Cutter's sense of "something wrong at home" had to do with the Tyrant, and not a somewhat random convergence in which his only real role was to deliver that lance or whatever to the Second. And since the Tyrant thread is clearly not finished, Cutter leaving seemed odd.

Also, what was with the whole, "I'ma go tell Challice I offed her husband. Nevermind, I'ma go mope on the boat. Oh look, a lance. Oh look, Hounds. Thanks for the lift, Spite. Challice who?" He deserves all the reproach he directs at himself and his treatment of the ladies, regardless of how annoying it is to read. Where's the disconnect between "Man, I treat the ladies like shit," and "Hmm, maybe I should stop doing that and take responsibility for my actions"? Or did I totally blow past some part where he went to deliver the message and found her corpse?

[zwitterion]

Epiph;375188 said:

Also, what was with the whole, "I'ma go tell Challice I offed her husband. Nevermind, I'ma go mope on the boat. Oh look, a lance. Oh look, Hounds. Thanks for the lift, Spite. Challice who?" He deserves all the reproach he directs at himself and his treatment of the ladies, regardless of how annoying it is to read. Where's the disconnect between "Man, I treat the ladies like shit," and "Hmm, maybe I should stop doing that and take responsibility for my actions"? Or did I totally blow past some part where he went to deliver the message and found her corpse?

I think it was made quite clear that there was no real love lost between challice n crokus. She wanted some sex / danger / sense of participation in her life / someone to kill her hubby and he wanted some adolescent fantasy booty. Moreover he killed gorlas for murillio not challice, and what with his general failure to reconnect with the city in any way that didn't involve stabbing, it's no surprise he just went "fuck it i'm out" at the end.

[Sinisdar Toste]

and he totally had to go after his true love apsalar

[Abyss]

zwitterion;375201 said:

...and what with his general failure to reconnect with the city in any way that didn't involve stabbing, it's no surprise he just went "fuck it i'm out" at the end.

Exactly (and rep forthcoming for the "didn't involve stabbing ' part ).

The point is that Crokus 'grew up' - 'Cutter' was essentially a stage he went thru before discovering he didn't like what he had become. He needed to return to Darujhistan in order to realize this and move on.

Considering in the end all our speculation about Cutter's heritage being linked to the Tyrants was moot, that means his whole 'i have to get back to Darujhistan my city is in danger' riff was meaningless and just him scrambling for some foundation after Apsalar ditched him and he failed at protecting Felisin Fatter.

That said, Cutter's personal development, whining aside, is one of the most logical in the books.


- Abyss, does note that hooking back up with Apsalar is probably not going to help with the 'unhappy killing' part...

[eekwibble]

Sorry, I'm going back a couple of pages.

WTF is this 'Cutter PWNED Rallick' rubbish? :confused:
Cutter sliced RN's hand a bit then tried to slice his kneecap off but couldn't get past the tjaluk knife and Rallick pulled out another one to fight two-handed. Cutter threw a knife and

Quote

impossibly - the man batted the flying weapon aside

into his own shoulder, but...

Quote

Cutter made to launch yet another attack - then he skidded on his heels and leaned back into an all-out defence as the man came forward, his heavy knives whirling a skein before him.

and Cutter was all "Oh shit! Hold on, I recognise those blades. Wait Rallick, please don't hurt me. I'm still just an emo girlypants really (and I love you)!"

If there had been any pwnage, it would've been The Nom's, knife in the shoulder besides! :cool:

[Abyss]

Nom almost died and spent a few days recovering from that fight. That he deflected the knife into his shoulder was the best he could do to keep from it going into his heart. I call that pwned.

Sure, the otataral, if it still works, might have healed him eventually - but apparently not that fast since he took days to recover, but if the fight had gone on, Cutter had the edge.

- Abyss, heehee see what i did there?

[eekwibble]

Nom took a knife in the shoulder and put Cutter on a major defensive with a two bladed attack with heavy blades. Cutter bricked it! Fact.

Nom was relieved when C shouted him but still would've sliced him up if he'd had to.

Nom ftw!

[Blend]

eekwibble, on Aug 27 2008, 06:12 PM, said:

Nom took a knife in the shoulder and put Cutter on a major defensive with a two bladed attack with heavy blades. Cutter bricked it! Fact.

Nom was relieved when C shouted him but still would've sliced him up if he'd had to.

Nom ftw!

I always read that passage as Crokus backing off because he had realized that it was Nom. He was going in for the kill, then skidded into defensive so as not to hurt Nom and to stop Nom from hurting him.

[dawnkiller]

Epiph, on Aug 26 2008, 04:36 PM, said:

Where's the disconnect between "Man, I treat the ladies like shit," and "Hmm, maybe I should stop doing that and take responsibility for my actions"? Or did I totally blow past some part where he went to deliver the message and found her corpse?

I left that last part because knowing I wasn't the only one to wish that had happened makes me happy. (Although Challice killing herself and no one really noticing/caring did dovetail rather nicely with audience opinion by that point . . .)

Anyway, the "taking responsibility" thing is something I hope is going to be played now -- largely because of the aforementioned reclaimation of the name Crokus. Calling himself Cutter was just a way to compartmentalize that aspect of his personality from his previous life, or hell, away even from his own personality. I think being back in Darujhistan, and the innocent times it reminded him of, polarized him somewhat, making his Cutter persona even more of a dick (re: treatment of Scillara). There are few things worse than realizing home doesn't feel like home anymore. I think by the end of TtH he'd stopped pretending the Cutter kept anything separate or protected. The one doing the killing -- and being a jerk -- was Crokus all along, no matter what he wanted to believe.

[Epiph]

I hadn't thought of it like that. Makes me appreciate it more.

[zwitterion]

dawnkiller, on Oct 8 2008, 06:22 PM, said:

I left that last part because knowing I wasn't the only one to wish that had happened makes me happy. (Although Challice killing herself and no one really noticing/caring did dovetail rather nicely with audience opinion by that point . . .)

I hadn't thought about that but it's true; if we'd given half a shit about Challice by this point that death would have been really poignant but as it was my reaction was pretty much "eh probly for the best. ooh hounds...". It wasn't a bad part of the book but now I realise it was definitely a missed opportunity. Or maybe SE WAS trying to pull off some pathos there and just failed.