[Ammanas]

Ain said:

What's interesting is that she invoked SD, which is the Warren of Dragons, the spreaders of magic. But from her words descended otataral. Hm...

It's interesting that there is an otataral dragon, specifically that otataral manifests as a dragon. There was a quote somewhere "Clever of Krul to have forced you to share power." My guess is he also forced SD to spawn magic and a counter to magic.

Yah, and I now remember from BH where Pearl and Lostara see the otataral dragon. Pearl finds the names of whomever imprisoned it, eight in all, I believe. Of course, Apsalar had to go medieval on him so it's possible we may never find out their names or races.

[Venerus]

There's a quote in HoC, or maybe MT, I'm really sorry to say that I can't find it at the moment. But the gist is: all things (evidently living and not) have the intrinsic ability to resist magic. Why must that be so? Because otherwise the first god would have reshaped the world to his or her liking, and gods would continue to act without opposition.

In other words, the power of a being can also be measured in the ability of things to resist it. All things push back.

No, still can't find the quote. But I remember thinking "that sounds like otataral unveiled." Like otataral is magical inertia. Makes magic harder to get moving, in other words.

[Aptorian]

ShadowOwl;319564 said:

I have always wanted to know what QB and Kalam found out when they heated otataral and then threw magic at the hot dust. What did it do? They sure kept it a secret.

[noparse]IT CREATED A MULE!!![/noparse]

[Jorram]

That was great

[Aptorian]

Lost Pages of the Malazan Book of the Fallen

Quote

1157th year of Burn's Sleep

The assassin and the mage squated behind a boulder, sweat covering them and not only from the heat. The abandoned quarry echoed with the noise of their nervous fidgeting behind the rock.
'Come on, Quick, get on with it already"
"Don't push it, Mekhar," Quick used a sleeve to wipe his brow. "What I'm about to do... I don't know."
Kalam looked over the top of the boulder, the Ottataral lying on the steel plate had begun making an unsettling crackling sound. The furnace it was lying on was quickly making the metal grow an angry red.
"You know how much trouble I went through to get that much Ottataral, Wizard? I didn't just have to bribe half the city council, the guards and that fat workman.. Blood was spilled. For this. For your crazy ideas. Hood balls, we still don't know if it works.
"Yes, yes," Quick made a dismissing gesture" But if it works. The war..."
"Then do it!"
Quick suddenly jumped up screaming "UNLEASH THE SEVEN WITHIN ME!"

Kalam awoke lying on his stomach. Everything hurt, it felt as though he'd been slapped by a giants hand. He rolled over on his back and looked around. He wasn't in the quarry any longer. He'd been thrown clear over the the top of the side.
Now he was crawling to the edge to peer into the quarry. His ears were ringing, his head was spinning and he felt wet blood trickling from his nose and ears. The stonequarry seemed to have doubled in size. The old, rich stone melted to glas, still radiating heat. Steam was rising in waves and there, fading in and out of view close to the center, was Quick, his telaba torn to rags, starring at something. How long had he been passed out? How long had the crazy mage been standing down there?
Kalam made his way down the hot glass, burning himself where the fabric of his clothes had been torn. He scrambled to the mages side and grabbed his shoulder.
"Quick, what the hell happened. What are you doing down here?"
The mage didn't respond, just pointed to the center. Now Kalam saw what the mage had been starring at, a mule. The strangest mule he'd ever seen. It was standing besides an expensive looking tent, it's sides firmly anchored in the fabric of the hot glass. A tall wooden table for two had been placed, ornatly carved, with matching chairs pulled out, as if someone was expecting the two Bridgeburners.
"Quick, snap out of it, damn it!" Kalam shook the mages wiry frame. Slowly, as coming out of a trance, or more likely shock, the mage opened his mouth.
"Kalam, I didn't know!" Quicks eyes were wide with a mix of fear and giddy exilleration. "I never realised. Who could have known! Not even the gods, Kalam. Look what it did, Kalam, it's been working ever since, I never... Oh, there were warnings. Vague suggestions of where it came from. But this... this is beyond any of us. Beyond the gods. Beyond the Azath!
Cold fear ran down Kalams back. Looking from the mule to the mage, eyes widening now as the mule turned towards them. Swallowing and finding his throat dry, Kalam spoke with a shaky voice.
"What is it doing?"
"It... It's making tea!"

[Lisheo]

Lmao I like it, Apt

[ShadowOwl]

Apt! Perfect! lmao too!

[Venerus]

Aptorian;319617 said:

Lost Pages of the Malazan Book of the Fallen

Damnit, Apt... at least put a spoiler tag on posts like that

[Narg]

I always imagined Otataral as a defensive mechanism of warrens.

Consider it a given that the warrens are the veins and the blood of K'rul. I dont think anyone would argue against that.
¨
Thus, mages accessing their warrens make a tiny hole in the vein, allowing some of the blood to flow through them, and mages entering a warren floats around in the blood, so to speak.

This generally does not seem to cause any serious issues. However, very large unleashings of magic seem to do. For example, there is a point of view in tBH in which someone remembers the last time a storm such as what the falling green giants caused giving birth to a mountain of otataral. This is when I would like to post a quote, but my book is not here

Anyway, my point is as follows. When the warrens have holes of sufficient size, and enough blood start pouring out, they defend themselves. Perhaps SE or ICE accidentally cut themselves and watched the blood get thicker and thicker and then turn into a...plug, for lack of the english word. There is a substance in our blood that makes it happen. This is what I think otataral does. It makes sure that the blood can not flow freely, and thus that magic does not work.

[Venerus]

"Plug" is the right word, technically "hemostatic plug" but "plug" is just as valid. You're saying otataral is platelets and fibrin? Neat idea. How does that tie in with the entropy connection though?

As far as I can tell, once the energy in a system descends into pure entropy, no more useful work can be done with it. That's sort of the (layperson's) definition of entropy.* Imagine warrens and the world provide magical potential energy, that can be used to do work. Once you've used up all the PME and converted it into heat or entropy, you're left with otataral, and you can no longer do useful work/"make cool magic stuff happen" with it anymore.

Might explain why getting otataral hot and adding magic makes it 'splode (or make mules. Or do neat stuff). Heat is a form of entropy (random molecular movement, the energy lost in a reaction that cannot be used for useful work). Entropy x entropy = super-entropy!





*yes yes along with disorder. Same thing.

[lasombra]

SD did not create the otataral. it was all their warrens combined. ( for those of u still stuck on that subject)

[Venerus]

lasombra;319838 said:

SD did not create the otataral. it was all their warrens combined. ( for those of u still stuck on that subject)

Mind explaining that one? And clarifying the syntax a bit? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me right now. "The" otataral? Which "the" otataral? All of "their warrens combined"? Who is the "they" in "their"?

[Ammanas]

Venerus;319945 said:

Mind explaining that one? And clarifying the syntax a bit? Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me right now. "The" otataral? Which "the" otataral? All of "their warrens combined"? Who is the "they" in "their"?

I'm in agreement with Venerus on this one. Your statements make little, if any sense.

Also, what does "for those of you still stuck on that subject" mean? Have you gotten inside info from SE or something? If you have something worked out in your mind, spell it out coherently. If you have substantiating quotes, please share.

[bhok'arala]

less than my statements anyways. just stating an idea doesn't prove anything either.

the whole otataral being from CG is probably because chaos and otataral are both poison to the warrens. with 1 exception however. chaos kills slowly like white pharalt (from the snake) and otataral kills quickly (like the spider).

in your quote, isombra, it seems that you refer to SD as being a warren. in case you didn't realize, it isnt. and heres some proof: it is the hold of dragons.

[OtataralDragon]

Narg;319804 said:

For example, there is a point of view in tBH in which someone remembers the last time a storm such as what the falling green giants caused giving birth to a mountain of otataral. This is when I would like to post a quote, but my book is not here

Hmmm. I looked through the various povs during that storm, and couldn't find anything like what you describe. The closest I could get was this:


BH, chapter 20, p. 945 pb.

"The sky falls," Noto Boil said as he fell back in beside the High Fist.

Scowling, Paran continued studying the strange appearance in the eastern sky, seeking some sense of what it was they were witnessing. Whatever it is, I don't like it.

"You doubt me?" the healer asked. "High Fist, I have walked the lands of Korel. I have seen the craters left behind by all that descended from the sky. Have you ever perused a map of Korel? The entire northern subcontinent and its host of islands? Fling a handful of gravel into mud, then wait whilst water fills the pocks. That is Korel, sir. The people still tell tales of the countless fires that fell from the sky, in the bringing down of the Crippled God."


However, I think Heboric had a passage, probably in DHG, where he speculated on the origin of Otataral Island. (Or was it otataral in general?)

[Venerus]

You're right, in DHG, Heboric thinks the island is there to hold contain the Jade statues.

Sorry to derail the thread a bit: spirit magic --> mortal blood (and ancestral ghosts), warren magic --> dragon/immortal blood? Is there a blood associated with the magic of the Holds?

[Seed]

I don't believe so, didn't the early holds come about through close association over time with certain elements? Ummm like a cemetary that's been in use over generations gets aspected to death, eventually they grew larger and powerful and started wandering for whatever reason. At least that was the impression I got. I'm sure one of the gods was talking about how the holds came about in some book. I'll have to wrack my brains and try and remember where to find the quote.

[Ain't_It_Just_]

Dunno about Holds-spirits connection, but both are rough, messy and primal.

And why do I get the feeling the Beginning of the Holds theory was in MT, which I read today? Grrr.

[Venerus]

Ain said:

Dunno about Holds-spirits connection, but both are rough, messy and primal.

And why do I get the feeling the Beginning of the Holds theory was in MT, which I read today? Grrr.

Every time Feather Witch does a reading of the tiles, she talks about the origins of the Holds. Although, I think she discusses the origins of specific Holds rather than all of them at once. Udinaas makes reference to her readings when he's speculating that Darkness wasn't the first thing around in RG.

I was asking because I was hoping there was some way to make a connection between blood-type and otataral's effects. Like, is spirit magic affected by otataral? I don't remember specific cases of it coming up. Elder Warrens are somewhat immune, but not all of them, and I can't tell if Holds magic is affected or not.

[bhok'arala]

i think that the holds blood would be something primal like the azath maybe. but there has to be a connection between dragons/holds since the dragons came from starveld demelain