[Sinisdar Toste]

bhok said:

In your quote, isombra, it seems that you refer to SD as being a warren. in case you didn't realize, it isnt. and heres some proof: it is the hold of dragons.

not quite sure you have the right of it here, bhok. the hold referenced to dragons is that of the eleint, the eleint hold. starvald demelain is very clearly refered to as an elder warren of dragons. now the two could be one and the same, but calling SD a hold and not a warren grates with me. it is one of the chambers of k'ruls heart and integral to the warren system

[Aptorian]

Bhok is of course wrong. There's houses and there holds, they are just names for the conduit of a warrens power.

Starvald Demalain is a warren and it's where the dragons lived

[phart]

L said:

Are there any quotes as to why Otartoral does not work on Elder magic? Maybe an SE interview.

Does entropy not exist in the elder warrens?

What does that mean for Darkness, shadow, light warrens? Is chaos their only concern? With the holds now energized how much will that magic change/grow if it all?

I guess that since the CG came with the otatoral and he came after the Elder warrens were around every newer warren is affected and everything already in place is not. Would make sense then that his balance would be the elder gods. All those statues are his followers trying to find him?

hmmmmmmmm

Well if its entropy as in Thermodynics entropy as opposed to mathematical abstract, then since Entropy increases (chaos) in a CLOSED system then maybe the elders being of different places they are an open system. I'm sure in BH Cot asks if the elder are from more than one world, and he gets an answer that they are, so this could be construed as a open system, and normal "this plane bound magic" is a closed system.

So magic is the "order" and otataral the chaos or "entropy"

I saw the Entropy quote at first read and just thought that it was chaos destroying order, as magic is ordered. The dust could be a by product of the reaction between the two forces. Also didn't someone say in one of the books they had seen the jade fire before and the result was basically otataral island, sorry bit vague but i am sure i read that in one fo the books.

[phart]

Venerus;319813 said:

"
As far as I can tell, once the energy in a system descends into pure entropy, no more useful work can be done with it.

No Entropy and dis-order aren't the same( http://www.entropysi...t_disorder.html )entropy is the measuring of dispersal of energy, dis-order is just used as a pseudo-synonym , but to answer your question. It's only in a closed system.

So just say our sun burnt out and the solar system went to its entropy conclusion, if someone were to start up the sun again, it would become an open system and entropy could decrease again.

If there is always an input then it is ok, however, since ultimately the Malazan world however big must be in some sort of closed system, local drops in entropy may occur but the net amount will tend to increase.

Here is why people equate it with dis-order http://www.entropysi...ked_crutch.html

[Bauchelain the Evil]

Aptorian;322417 said:

Bhok is of course wrong. There's houses and there holds, they are just names for the conduit of a warrens power.

Starvald Demalain is a warren and it's where the dragons lived

I'm with you but we cannot forget that in MT when FW and Udinaas meet Rud elalle and the Imass FW asks:What hold is this? and the Imass said:Starvald Demelain.

[Danyah]

They were standing in front of the gateway to starvald demelain.

[bhok'arala]

phart;322707 said:

Well if its entropy as in Thermodynics entropy as opposed to mathematical abstract, then since Entropy increases (chaos) in a CLOSED system then maybe the elders being of different places they are an open system. I'm sure in BH Cot asks if the elder are from more than one world, and he gets an answer that they are, so this could be construed as a open system, and normal "this plane bound magic" is a closed system.

So magic is the "order" and otataral the chaos or "entropy"

I saw the Entropy quote at first read and just thought that it was chaos destroying order, as magic is ordered. The dust could be a by product of the reaction between the two forces. Also didn't someone say in one of the books they had seen the jade fire before and the result was basically otataral island, sorry bit vague but i am sure i read that in one fo the books.

you mind if i use this in warren mechanics?

i never said that it was a warren but i can see where i was a little vague.

[phart]

bhok said:

you mind if i use this in warren mechanics?

i never said that it was a warren but i can see where i was a little vague.

Not at all.

[bhok'arala]

thanks.